Mase IS 6.5 problems after fuel filter change

[Tree Spirit]

Oh if anyone out there can give me some help I would be very grateful -

 

I have a lovely generator and when its working it is a dream. I am very proud of it...

 

So it was getting a little grumpy, I changed the oil filter and the oil and lovely its working so much better.

 

It was a while since the fuel filter was changed, so thought it best to do it all while I was at it. HHMPH

 

It is supposed to be a self-priming fuel pump and it has had plenty of chances to self prime but still doesnt want to start the little darling. I filled the bottom cup of the fuel filter with diesel to give it a chance after it fired up and ran for a bit and then conked out.

 

Is there any damage I can do if I keep trying to start it? It is raw water cooled.

 

Please be nice. I am feeling a little cold and grumpy now.

[Guest]

Oh if anyone out there can give me some help I would be very grateful -

 

I have a lovely generator and when its working it is a dream. I am very proud of it...

 

So it was getting a little grumpy, I changed the oil filter and the oil and lovely its working so much better.

 

It was a while since the fuel filter was changed, so thought it best to do it all while I was at it. HHMPH

 

It is supposed to be a self-priming fuel pump and it has had plenty of chances to self prime but still doesnt want to start the little darling. I filled the bottom cup of the fuel filter with diesel to give it a chance after it fired up and ran for a bit and then conked out.

 

Is there any damage I can do if I keep trying to start it? It is raw water cooled.

 

Please be nice. I am feeling a little cold and grumpy now.

A few thoughts to start with. I am not familiar with this piece of equipment, but if it is supposed to be self priming, but isn't doing so,I would suspect that it is pulling air in. What kind of filter is it? i.e. a spin on cartridge? On my diesel engine (which is self priming via an electric fuel pump) it suggests that the filter should be completely filled with diesel before spinning on. I once failed to do this and it took some time for the electric pump to get all of the air out of the system Did you renew the seals on the filter?

[steelaway]

A few thoughts to start with. I am not familiar with this piece of equipment, but if it is supposed to be self priming, but isn't doing so,I would suspect that it is pulling air in. What kind of filter is it? i.e. a spin on cartridge? On my diesel engine (which is self priming via an electric fuel pump) it suggests that the filter should be completely filled with diesel before spinning on. I once failed to do this and it took some time for the electric pump to get all of the air out of the system Did you renew the seals on the filter?

 

 

Yes the pump is good at pumping fuel not air.

I'd bleed everthing I could find:angry:

 

Alex

[Guest]

http://www.mase.no/cart/images/File/Bruksannvisninger-GB/MPL30ASXrev3.pdf

 

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/mase/manuals/usageandmaintenance/is76manual.pdf

Edited December 5, 2010 by Guest

[RLWP]

Is there a fuel tap and have you turned it on?

 

Richard

[JGMarine]

Sound like air in the fuel system.

If its like most generators then the engine stop solenoid needs to be energised to allow fuel through to bleed/run.

 

This solenoid would normally only be energised when engine is cranking and running. So lots of ignition on/cranking may sort it out.

There may be a manual lift pump to enable bleeding via a bleed nipple on the fuel injector pump.

 

If you have a manual then the procedure should be in there.

[stuart]

How old is the fuel (was it summer grade?) Has it frozen or turned into a thicker liquid ?

[Tree Spirit]

Is there a fuel tap and have you turned it on?

 

Richard

 

I did say be nice, I may be a girl, but yes and yes :-)

 

Thanks I will take a look at these, I might be able to find something to bleed this way

 

People are very helpful

 

http://www.mase.no/cart/images/File/Bruksannvisninger-GB/MPL30ASXrev3.pdf

 

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/mase/manuals/usageandmaintenance/is76manual.pdf

 

Thanks I will take a look at these, I might be able to find something to bleed this way

 

People are very helpful

 

http://www.mase.no/cart/images/File/Bruksannvisninger-GB/MPL30ASXrev3.pdf

 

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/mase/manuals/usageandmaintenance/is76manual.pdf

 

Yes the pump is good at pumping fuel not air.

I'd bleed everthing I could find:angry:

 

Alex

 

Yes we replaced the seals on the filter. It is the sort where the top and bottom hold a cylnder in the middle. It is so compact where do you fill such a thing and where do you find things to bleed...it is really not that obvious.

 

Maybe a good marine engineer could help me but it must must must be a good one cos I cant (like anyone else) afford to put money in the canal. Perhaps someone could recommend one in the N Bucks area

 

A few thoughts to start with. I am not familiar with this piece of equipment, but if it is supposed to be self priming, but isn't doing so,I would suspect that it is pulling air in. What kind of filter is it? i.e. a spin on cartridge? On my diesel engine (which is self priming via an electric fuel pump) it suggests that the filter should be completely filled with diesel before spinning on. I once failed to do this and it took some time for the electric pump to get all of the air out of the system Did you renew the seals on the filter?

 

Yes it is a delphi 296 filter or equivalent. We filled the bottom cup, tried to fill the middle too. Is there a way to fill from the top? Once it is bolted on? I really dont want to unbolt it again and put diesel everywhere.

 

[RLWP]

I did say be nice, I may be a girl, but yes and yes :-)

<snip>

 

It's nothing to do with you being a girl Steve. I'm the chap who spent ages trying to start a car, only to find the rotor arm on the workbench, so when it comes to missing the bleedin' obvious, I'm an expert!

 

Richard

[Tree Spirit]

Sound like air in the fuel system.

If its like most generators then the engine stop solenoid needs to be energised to allow fuel through to bleed/run.

 

This solenoid would normally only be energised when engine is cranking and running. So lots of ignition on/cranking may sort it out.

There may be a manual lift pump to enable bleeding via a bleed nipple on the fuel injector pump.

 

If you have a manual then the procedure should be in there.

I do have a manual infact I have two and have read them thouroughly but it simply doesnt give any advice on any form of manual bleeding or filling the diesel filter or anything really detailed or useful and just suggests priming the pump by pressing the starter for a second lots of times.

 

What is not clear is what damage can be done to the engine by forcing water round the systme when it isnt working. It might sound unlikely but there is a very unclear note in the manual suggesting you can do permanent damage to the engine so I am a bit freaked by this...

[Tree Spirit]

It's nothing to do with you being a girl Steve. I'm the chap who spent ages trying to start a car, only to find the rotor arm on the workbench, so when it comes to missing the bleedin' obvious, I'm an expert!

 

Richard

Thanks Richard, but I really am a girl. My partner passed away. I'll change the profile when I get a chance.I know what you mean though, sometimes the obvious really does get overlooked lol

Sue

[RLWP]

Thanks Richard, but I really am a girl. My partner passed away. I'll change the profile when I get a chance.I know what you mean though, sometimes the obvious really does get overlooked lol

Sue

 

Hi Sue, I'm sorry about that, it was a bit clumsy and insensitive. If you let one of the moderators know, you can probably change your username. Best way to contact them is - strangely - to report one of your own posts.

 

Richard

[Tree Spirit]

Oh if anyone out there can give me some help I would be very grateful -

 

I have a lovely generator and when its working it is a dream. I am very proud of it...

 

So it was getting a little grumpy, I changed the oil filter and the oil and lovely its working so much better.

 

It was a while since the fuel filter was changed, so thought it best to do it all while I was at it. HHMPH

 

It is supposed to be a self-priming fuel pump and it has had plenty of chances to self prime but still doesnt want to start the little darling. I filled the bottom cup of the fuel filter with diesel to give it a chance after it fired up and ran for a bit and then conked out.

 

Is there any damage I can do if I keep trying to start it? It is raw water cooled.

 

Please be nice. I am feeling a little cold and grumpy now.

 

This is what is says in my manual which Catweasel kindly sent me an online version of...

 

6.5 Fuel filter replacement

To ensure long life and proper functioning of the engine,

it is extremely important to periodically replace the fuel

filter cartridge as listed in the table in Paragraph 6.15.

This operation is carried out in the following steps:

- Close the fuel cock [Fig. 3, Ref. 24]

- Completely unscrew the ring nut of the support [Fig. 3,

Ref. 13]

- Remove the old cartridge and position the new one.

- For remounting, repeat the operation in reverse order.

When the filter is replaced, bleed the fuel system

carrying out the operations described in Paragraph 4.2.

 

4.2 Bleeding the fuel system

The presence of air bubbles in the fuel system is caused

by irregular functioning of the engine or the incapacity to

reach the nominal number of revolutions. Air might enter

the fuel circuit through an imperfect seal (hoses, filters,

tank) or when the fuel in the tank is at minimum level. The

fuel system has been designed in such a way as to

autonomously eliminate air bubbles that have penetrated

the circuit. Automatic bleeding is obtained by activating

the fuel pump for a few minutes before starting the

engine.

The fuel pump is activated by pressing the START button

for a second.

Should the engine still function irregularly after this

operation, consult a technician for a thorough inspection

of the fuel system.

 

ahem.

[Tim Doran]

Is there a place past the fuel filter but before the engine where you could check for air? On my engine (no a gennie i know, but similar?) I slackened off a banjo nut to see if there was air or diesel.

 

To prime the fuel filter of a delphi 295 seemed spill lots of diesel. Next time I would definatly fill the filter first.

 

Tim

[Tree Spirit]

Hi Sue, I'm sorry about that, it was a bit clumsy and insensitive. If you let one of the moderators know, you can probably change your username. Best way to contact them is - strangely - to report one of your own posts.

 

Richard

 

 

Sok you weren't to know

[Canalwatcher]

I have an agglomerator like the one shown in this link - it is mounteed vertically of course: http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/Products/Engineering/Filter/Fuel/Ea124.aspx

When I change the filter I bleed the chamber by unscrewing the nut on the top (not the one holding the bowl on). Not sure if yours has this feature so this may not help

 

Mick

[Chris-B]

Which part of North Bucks are you moored Sue ?

Chris

 

 

 

[Tree Spirit]

I have an agglomerator like the one shown in this link - it is mounteed vertically of course: http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/Products/Engineering/Filter/Fuel/Ea124.aspx

When I change the filter I bleed the chamber by unscrewing the nut on the top (not the one holding the bowl on). Not sure if yours has this feature so this may not help

 

Mick

Thanks for this, I will have a look, I was thinking about the possibiltiy, but needed a bit of space from staring into the collossus like interior . Will see if it helps.

[Tree Spirit]

Thanks for this, I will have a look, I was thinking about the possibiltiy, but needed a bit of space from staring into the collossus like interior . Will see if it helps.

 

I couldn't even turn the nut on the filter, so am awaiting reinforcements (dad and brother) and hopefully they can do this little jobby for me while I watch and learn.

 

[Canalwatcher]

I couldn't even turn the nut on the filter, so am awaiting reinforcements (dad and brother) and hopefully they can do this little jobby for me while I watch and learn.

 

I took a photo of my filter yesterday. The small central nut is the bolt that holds the 296 filter on, the larger nut just to the left is the one to unscrew to bleed the filter

 

 

The red funnel is my addition to collect any minor drips and divert them to a bottle!

 

 

Mick

[Tree Spirit]

I took a photo of my filter yesterday. The small central nut is the bolt that holds the 296 filter on, the larger nut just to the left is the one to unscrew to bleed the filter

 

 

The red funnel is my addition to collect any minor drips and divert them to a bottle!

 

 

Mick

Hello Mick this is exactly like mine. Thanks. My dad did help me today. We bled this filter like yours. We bled a bit further along and kept turning the engine over with a spare battery to hand to induce the self priming mechanism and did finally get the little darling to run. It did take a really really long time. Lots of starts. I remember this being the case when my partner fixed it many moons ago.

 

She ran for about 10 minutes or so beautifully, then began to really struggle again. The power output was poor too. So possibly something else going on there. Dad is convinced it is the fuel and suggested putting half a pint of paraffin in the diesel to help it along in this cold weather. We took the load off it by flipping the emergency cut out down and it still wasnt happy.

 

I have no idea about this so might start a new thread to get peoples' opinions on this, safety to other equipment etc.

 

Like the funnel workaround Sue

[ditchcrawler]

Hello Mick this is exactly like mine. Thanks. My dad did help me today. We bled this filter like yours. We bled a bit further along and kept turning the engine over with a spare battery to hand to induce the self priming mechanism and did finally get the little darling to run. It did take a really really long time. Lots of starts. I remember this being the case when my partner fixed it many moons ago.

 

She ran for about 10 minutes or so beautifully, then began to really struggle again. The power output was poor too. So possibly something else going on there. Dad is convinced it is the fuel and suggested putting half a pint of paraffin in the diesel to help it along in this cold weather. We took the load off it by flipping the emergency cut out down and it still wasnt happy.

 

I have no idea about this so might start a new thread to get peoples' opinions on this, safety to other equipment etc.

 

Like the funnel workaround Sue

edit, replied to wrong posting. No I didn't?

 

Probably still a bit of air, its sounds a right so and so to bleed

Edited December 8, 2010 by ditchcrawler

[Tree Spirit]

edit, replied to wrong posting. No I didn't?

 

Probably still a bit of air, its sounds a right so and so to bleed

WELL I AM SO VERY HAPPY I HAVE FIXED MY GENERATOR WHOO HOO!!!

 

A really really big thank you for all the moral support and technical know how. I have graduated and you can tell by the smell!

 

It was all the things said but there was one little extra teeny weeny hidden secret...there was a second fuel filter inline which was under the floorboards - I found it after following the pipes carefully along which changed places as they weaved along the suport framework. It was full of gritty black stuff, easy to change and blow me if it wouldnt have solved it all had I found it in the first place. Replaced it, bled it, checked for leaks and my darling genny started third time and hasnt stopped since. Batteries all nice and plump. Charging all gone back to normal.

 

THANKS EVERYONE WHO POSTED FOR THEIR VALUABLE TIME.

 

PS HOW DO YOU GET THE SMELL OF DIESEL OFF YOUR HANDS ETC?

[Guest]

WELL I AM SO VERY HAPPY I HAVE FIXED MY GENERATOR WHOO HOO!!!

 

A really really big thank you for all the moral support and technical know how. I have graduated and you can tell by the smell!

 

It was all the things said but there was one little extra teeny weeny hidden secret...there was a second fuel filter inline which was under the floorboards - I found it after following the pipes carefully along which changed places as they weaved along the suport framework. It was full of gritty black stuff, easy to change and blow me if it wouldnt have solved it all had I found it in the first place. Replaced it, bled it, checked for leaks and my darling genny started third time and hasnt stopped since. Batteries all nice and plump. Charging all gone back to normal.

 

THANKS EVERYONE WHO POSTED FOR THEIR VALUABLE TIME.

 

PS HOW DO YOU GET THE SMELL OF DIESEL OFF YOUR HANDS ETC?

An excellent result; well done. The smell of diesel tends to fade off the hands after a couple of weeks Try talc.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Guest

[ditchcrawler]

PS HOW DO YOU GET THE SMELL OF DIESEL OFF YOUR HANDS ETC?

Eat curry with your fingers