Proposed changes to licence conditions

[mayalld]

And you think your proposed system of varying percentages per month of the year would be easier to administer?

 

You would not need a system to monitor boat movements through tidal locks. It is already there. It would be up to the applicant to submit proof of

not being on BW waters, and that would be easy to provide with a responsible person's signature on a simple form.

 

Tone

 

My system of varying percentages would be trivially simple to administer. A computer with rate tables would simply generate the appropriate fee. I'm going home in

 

A system of submitting proof would involve a system of checks and audits to confirm that the submitted proof was genuine, which would cost money.

[Neil TNC]

Actually I think you might be wrong there. I did have one as an 'extension' to a 12 month licence in 2007, unless it's changed since then.

 

The spiel now says:

 

"Short Term Visitor Licences - England & Wales

 

These licences are for small unpowered or trailed boats and larger vessels visiting BW waterways for short periods from other navigations or coastal waters . Short Term Visitor Licences are not available to boats floating in marinas or on moorings connected to BW waters."

 

It seems from the above that crossing tidal waters to get to BW waters would not count as 'connected'.

 

Tone

 

A Short Term Visitor Licence is not an Explorer Licence.

From 2011 Explorer Licences will only be available online or by phone.

[canaldrifter]

My system of varying percentages would be trivially simple to administer. A computer with rate tables would simply generate the appropriate fee. I'm going home in

 

A system of submitting proof would involve a system of checks and audits to confirm that the submitted proof was genuine, which would cost money.

 

When licence fees are still calculated by BW staff or customers looking at a chart?

 

Don't think so. BW is not that IT savvy.

 

Tone

[mayalld]

When licence fees are still calculated by BW staff or customers looking at a chart?

 

Don't think so. BW is not that IT savvy.

 

Tone

 

OK, no problem, as a special favour, I'll write the code for them FOC.

[canaldrifter]

A Short Term Visitor Licence is not an Explorer Licence.

From 2011 Explorer Licences will only be available online or by phone.

 

Then it's not an explorer licence I would want then.

 

In fact, for my 2011 needs, a couple of one month STVLs would do me That would mean that BW, in trying to get 25% more money out of me, will end up 55% worse off.

 

Tone

[haggis]

Then it's not an explorer licence I would want then.

 

In fact, for my 2011 needs, a couple of one month STVLs would do me That would mean that BW, in trying to get 25% more money out of me, will end up 55% worse off.

 

Tone

 

But will you not have very limited boating possibilities? I think you mentioned the Chesterfield but it is a BW water.

 

haggis

[mayalld]

Then it's not an explorer licence I would want then.

 

In fact, for my 2011 needs, a couple of one month STVLs would do me That would mean that BW, in trying to get 25% more money out of me, will end up 55% worse off.

 

Tone

 

Which is fair enough.

 

If you aren't using their navigations, you won't be paying them.

 

However, to expect to use their navigations all summer, then overwinter somewhere else, and pay significantly less than somebody who overwinters on the system is unrealistic in the extreme.

[Naughty Cal]

But will you not have very limited boating possibilities? I think you mentioned the Chesterfield but it is a BW water.

 

haggis

 

Not at all if Tone gets an explorer or short term licence he will have loads of cruising range from the Derwent without the need to use BW waters.

[Lewis 53]

I must be one of the few who think what I pay for use of the system is good value for money. With the present proposed increase I still think its good value. As I am on a fixed income eventually it will get to the point where I can not afford it and I will have to cut something else out or get off the water. This is a simple fact. However the law of diminishing returns will apply and increasing fees will result in decreasing boat numbers and eventually decreasing income. BW are not the only cause of the current "funding short fall" but are part of it. We all know where the real problem lies and we will all suffer for years to come.......... Remember "No more boom and bust". Just bust will do ?

[Chris Pink]

I must be one of the few who think what I pay for use of the system is good value for money.

 

I also think a licence is good value for money - for me.

 

What I really object to is that money being wasted on pointless speculation, over-the-top salaries and bonuses, corporate bureaucracy, pointless marketing exercises. As the licence income goes up time and time again the amount of money going into the maintenance of the system diminishes.

 

I also think that no consideration has been given to narrow boats and cruisers less than 40'. These, as leisure boats, used to be the main family involvement in the canals, now they have almost disappeared. And no wonder, when the cost of owning any boat on the canal system for leisure is more than £30 per week, every week, that people, increasingly turn away from the canals. Leaving them to the opposite poles of cheap housing and the wealthier leisure craft owners.

 

I would like to see a 30' licence costing a lot less than 3/7 of a 70 licence. I think the larger boats should heavily subsidise the smaller ones - I speak as one who owns 2 70' and a 50' boat. I think moorings online without facilities for these, for leisure only, should be dirt cheap.

 

I think that to ration the use of the waterways by price is morally wrong and proactive steps should be taken to make them much more accessible to all sorts of smaller boats.

[DaveG]

Let's face it, BW will impose these increases regardless and ultimately the boating community will sit back and dig deeper into its collective pockets. Those who give up boating will still have to license their craft until such time as they are sold in an increasingly depressed market - the number who decide simply to scrap their boat will, I would guess, be minimal so the net reduction in the number of boats and consequently the net loss to BW in license fees will, therefore, be next to nothing.....or perhaps this is why they are allocating increased funding to tracking down non-payers in the knowledge that the vast majority, when push comes to shove, will not allow a valuable asset to craned out and sold cheaply or scrapped. What will almost certainly happen in the longer term is that there will be fewer boat movements therefore the greatest impact will be on canal traders, chandlers, suppliers, new boat builders etc, the loss of which will hardly affect BW's pocket ......other than their well-documented commercial failures....sorry,ventures.

 

BW is long overdue for reform and needs to be put in a position where it focuses on it's core business - maintaining and managing the waterways under it's jurisdiction - and, in particular, not seeing the boater as "the enemy". A license increase above the rate of inflation would have greater credibility if these funds were committed to essential maintenance and improvement. It is highly irritating, for example, to flog down the Northampton Arm through some of the worst locks on the network and then battle through the overgrown mess into the city whilst alongside is a nice new shiny tarmac towpath that the reeds prevent you from mooring up against....but is much loved by the local boy-motor-bikers!

 

Whilst I accept that BW is suffering cutbacks like the rest of us, it really does need to put it's own house in order first and demonstrate it can manage its core business before it starts beating its customers over the head with excessive license increases which do not seem to bestow any benefit to its customers. Perhaps when OFGEN have finished with the gas companies and their proposed above-inflation increases they can spare a couple of bodies to look at BW!!

[sueb]

£470 for 6 months, near enough. (In response to CWs enquiry.)

 

I think the answer may be to get a couple of years cruising in, in Ireland before it all goes ape-sh&te over there too.

 

I'm with SueB in this. BW is pricing a lot of legitimate lower budget boaters off the system.

 

I hope NABO will take this up quickly, Sue?

 

Tone

The meeting is tomorrow if any member wants to attend.

Sue

[Allan(nb Albert)]

The meeting is tomorrow if any member wants to attend.

Sue

 

..... and British Waterways annual meeting is Thursday 2nd December if any member of the public wishes to attend and is willing to cross a picket line.

[fuzzyduck]

There will be a picket line???? don't tell me some boaters have grown a pair.

[PhilR]

 

 

This is the bit that gets me. BW is proposingng to add the length of the rudder on to the length of a boat. In most cases this won't make any difference, but those of us who have motorised butties,we're now in danger of forking out for an extra 3'.

 

 

But surely you can swing the rudder fully over and tie it in that position?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

There will be a picket line???? don't tell me some boaters have grown a pair.

 

I am sure Unite and/or UNISON will be protesting outside the meeting.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Allan(nb Albert)

[fuzzyduck]

I am sure Unite and/or UNISON will be protesting outside the meeting.

 

Didn't think so... OH well, maybe after another 5 years of over inflation increases.

[ymu]

Didn't think so... OH well, maybe after another 5 years of over inflation increases.

If you think it should be done, what is stopping you organising it?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

If you think it should be done, what is stopping you organising it?

 

Go on! I will bring my camera and make you famous.

[ymu]

Go on! I will bring my camera and make you famous.

The idea would be to get lots of people to turn out, and I'm not at all interested in being famous.

 

I've not been a boater long enough to have a decent grasp of the issues, nor do I have links to the boater networks you would need to get a decent picket going. I'd write crap publicity materials, fail to get many people to notice them, and I'd not be well-informed enough to deal with press enquiries.

 

Action doesn't happen because some magical committee announces it. It happens because a small group of committed and well-informed individuals get together to make it happen - planning, materials, publicity.

 

If you build it, they will come.

[fuzzyduck]

If you think it should be done, what is stopping you organising it?

 

Well to be frank....

 

I have a 27 foot sea / river boat that's too fat to do canals, and I hate locks, I already have a 12 month license for which I pay monthly by direct debit. so a 5% increase isn't going to be the end of my world, and if it got that bad my marina has Riparian rights.

 

So I'm hardly likely to stick my neck out for the assorted collection of ladder pullers, and general "i'm all right Jacks" that have posted here am I?

[ymu]

Well to be frank....

 

I have a 27 foot sea / river boat that's too fat to do canals, and I hate locks, I already have a 12 month license for which I pay monthly by direct debit. so a 5% increase isn't going to be the end of my world, and if it got that bad my marina has Riparian rights.

 

So I'm hardly likely to stick my neck out for the assorted collection of ladder pullers, and general "i'm all right Jacks" that have posted here am I?

Sounds like you're all right then, Jack.

[fuzzyduck]

Sounds like you're all right then, Jack.

 

No, not really, alot of my friends are boaters who aren't in the same position as me, largely they are either on minimum wage, or fixed incomes.

 

What hurts my friends hurts me.

[ymu]

No, not really, alot of my friends are boaters who aren't in the same position as me, largely they are either on minimum wage, or fixed incomes.

 

What hurts my friends hurts me.

Then I don't understand. You sneer at boaters in general for doing nowt, but you're not prepared to be the one that gets something going. How does that work?

[fuzzyduck]

I founded the Provisional IWA didn't I?

Edited November 27, 2010 by fuzzyduck