Make cyclists buy insurance cover

[Stephen Sugg]

 

Lately, I have noticed some signs at junctions and traffic roundabouts that say 'Cyclists Dismount' - this is something that I really cannot get to grips with.

Also a pain if you're riding with clipped in pedals as I do. Not easy to walk in those shoes.

 

Oh and a few years ago I got stopped by the Police on my bike for:

Giving a "backy" to a mate

Riding on the pavement

Riding through a red light.

 

Not all at the same time. I was younger then and learnt my lesson. A friend of mine got pulled over two weeks ago for shooting a red.

[furnessvale]

BW could presumably have made up far more "shortfall" by ensuring that every boater on the K&A had actually paid for a licence, than by trying to collect licence money from cyclists ?

 

I did once cycle on the K&A at a time this was in force. As the tow-path was littered with cut Hawtorn that made cycling a nightmare, charging for the "privilege" seemed a bit unreasonable, in the circumstances.

 

1. Yes, much easier to have a go at boaters rather than extract even a penny from the freeloaders!

 

2. I think it is a bit unreasonable in the circumstances to charge me for the "privilege" of boating along constantly hitting the bottom through lack of dredging but I still have to pay.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[rubblequeen]

Yes, much easier to have a go at boaters rather than extract even a penny from the freeloaders!

 

Surely those who do not pay their licence fees are also "freeloaders" and BW are not having a go at all boaters, just the "freeloaders"

[alan_fincher]

1. Yes, much easier to have a go at boaters rather than extract even a penny from the freeloaders!

So it is a good idea to try and extract money from cyclists for using a tow-path to cycle on, (which could probably costs as much to administer and police, as it ever made in revenue), but it's OK to ignore boaters that evade payment of licences , (where serious revenues to BW are being lost).

 

One of the problems I have in entering these debates is that I simply can't get my head around what people are trying to say.

 

Surely more potential income is lost by "freeloading" boaters than could easily be raised from any other source.

 

One issue with that abortive K&A cycling scheme might actually have been not that there were "freeloading" or "maverick" cyclists unwilling to pay, but that actually there was nothing when entering the tow-paths concerned to say it was part of a scheme where you did have to pay, or how to obtain a licence. Many, (probably the majority) of people cycling there may not have had the faintest idea that charging had been introduced.

Edited October 30, 2010 by alan_fincher

[furnessvale]

Yes, much easier to have a go at boaters rather than extract even a penny from the freeloaders!

 

Surely those who do not pay their licence fees are also "freeloaders" and BW are not having a go at all boaters, just the "freeloaders"

 

By "having a go at boaters" I do not mean non payers etc. They deserve chasing. I refer to inflation busting increases in licence and mooring fees year after year to make up the revenue stream.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Guest]

I can see the day approaching when all individuals will have to carry a basic third party insurance to cover any activity, lest we should get sued. If cyclists need insurance (possibly a good idea,) does not the dog walker, the person pushing the perambulator? Any activity can cause an accident, but where do we draw the line re. liability?

[bag 'o' bones]

An interesting letter in the Yorkshire Evening Post Here.

 

...."Further discontent is caused by the fact that road markings and other aids created to help cyclists come from road tax paid by drivers. Fair enough but surely for the benefit of responsible cyclists and others who have the right to use pavements, canal footpaths and other open spaces unrestricted, obligatory insurance and a registration plate should go a long way to make "couldn't care less cyclists" mend their ways".

 

Probably not a vote winner though, so little chance of success.

 

A stupid idea that is not even worth discussing

[NB Alnwick]

What about wheelbarrows, handcarts, prams and push chairs (or should that be 'Baby Buggies' - which to me sounds like a terrible corruption of our language)?

 

Should they also be forced to carry licence plates and third party insurance?

[rubblequeen]

Just had an argument with my wife as she is moved to write to PM suggesting taxing cyclists and using the money to pay for safe cycle ways. I can see that happening. It seems that all this hassle between motorists & cyclists is down to poor planning even on new roads. Other countries have managed it.

 

Anyway we are not speaking now so thank you OP for ruining my marital harmony, on a more positive note at least I'm getting some peace and quiet.

 

Oh and her horse, which she rides on the roads, off course would not need to be taxed for no other reason that "it shouldn't be"

[Josher]

Just had an argument with my wife as she is moved to write to PM suggesting taxing cyclists and using the money to pay for safe cycle ways. I can see that happening. It seems that all this hassle between motorists & cyclists is down to poor planning even on new roads. Other countries have managed it.

 

Anyway we are not speaking now so thank you OP for ruining my marital harmony, on a more positive note at least I'm getting some peace and quiet.

 

Oh and her horse, which she rides on the roads, off course would not need to be taxed for no other reason that "it shouldn't be"

 

Doh ...

 

 

Shouldn't argue (you won't win anyway!). Your wife sounds nice (animal lover). A cousin of mine rides by the way ...

 

[rubblequeen]

Doh ...

 

 

Shouldn't argue (you won't win anyway!). Your wife sounds nice (animal lover). A cousin of mine rides by the way ...

 

 

HEY I married into your family, well what do you know. Now the fight starts.

[Josher]

Now the fight starts.

 

No fighting on this forum please - anyway, this is a cycling thread - must dash!

 

[andywatson]

http://news.aol.co.uk/discuss/video-cctv-footage-of-club-crash-released/19697496

[Beth A]

road markings and other aids created to help cyclists come from road tax paid by drivers.

 

I hear this all the time...

 

Nobody pays 'road tax'. People pay vehicle excise duty on vehicles. Cyclists often pay tax, goodness knows I pay enough, and so contribute to the system just as much and have a much less damaging effect on the environment. Being an exceptionally conscientious cyclist that always gives way to pedestrians and uses the canal towpath courteously; I do agree that some cyclists tend to cycle in an ignorant and slightly dangerous manner although that is just the way of the world with every type of person, I suspect. It does have to be said that pretty much every day I cycle in London a car driver does something to endanger my life - cyclists don't.

[carlt]

I cycle in London a car driver does something to endanger my life - cyclists don't.

I agreed with the whole of your post, until this.

 

Cyclists do some truly bizarre and dangerous things, in the city, that, whilst not directly endangering others, certainly puts other road users' lives in danger, when trying to avoid them.

 

It's a bit like the old adage:

 

"I've never had an accident but I've seen loads, in my rear view mirror."

[canaldrifter]

 

PS I ride a bicycle and a motorcycle

 

A motor-trike, Shirley???

 

Tone

[canaldrifter]

It's the policing that would let down any scheme of cycle third party insurance.

 

Yesterday, my friend, a neighboring boater, was sitting beside me drinking my tea and telling me why he walks with a permanent bad limp after a hip replacement. (I've had two. He's had one. We're hippies!)

 

Whilst using two sticks, he was knocked down by a young scroat on a bike on the pavement in Hull. He was left lying in agony with a newly replaced, but now even more newly dislocated hip. The scroat picked up his bike, and told my mate to keep out of his way, '.... you effin daft old bu&&er' then rode off.

 

No amount of insurance would have helped. Assistance by passers-by who all looked the other way might have done. Eventually someone helped my friend to his feet, and called an ambulance.

 

Similarly another friend of mine, working my boat down Caen Hill, was hit by a cyclist freewheeling down the hill at very high speed. He too was injured. Again the cyclist didn't stop.

 

It only takes a few to cause mayhem and spoil the reputation of the majority of cyclists who are both polite and careful.

 

They should start by imposing a cycling speed limit on towpaths and public paths. Obvious speeders could then be dealt with.

 

Tone

[Beth A]

I agreed with the whole of your post, until this.

 

Cyclists do some truly bizarre and dangerous things, in the city, that, whilst not directly endangering others, certainly puts other road users' lives in danger, when trying to avoid them.

 

I know what you mean, although it's actually true. Cyclists, at worst, have nearly knocked me off my bicycle as I suspect they need to pass an 'old-looking bicycle' with flowers on the basket, although none have ever done anything to endanger my life - a scraped knee or some bruises would be the worst...maybe a dunking in the canal. There have been a few instances where cars have been close to hitting me at speed, which - even though I wear a great helmet - would probably kill me outright.

 

It's a matter of scale, I think. Bigger things hurt little things more.

 

They should start by imposing a cycling speed limit on towpaths and public paths. Obvious speeders could then be dealt with.

 

I think that's a nice idea - not sure what speed would be appropriate but would imagine nothing more than 10 MPH would be acceptable on a towpath. IMHO.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Beth A

[carlt]

I know what you mean, although it's actually true. Cyclists, at worst, have nearly knocked me off my bicycle as I suspect they need to pass an 'old-looking bicycle' with flowers on the basket, although none have ever done anything to endanger my life

So, if the city cyclist succeeds in knocking you off your bike, into the path of a car, is it still the car driver's fault?

[mayalld]

 

I think that's a nice idea - not sure what speed would be appropriate but would imagine nothing more than 10 MPH would be acceptable on a towpath. IMHO.

 

As boats and people typically move no faster than 4mph, would that be a suitable limit?

[Nine of Hearts]

They should start by imposing a cycling speed limit on towpaths and public paths. Obvious speeders could then be dealt with.

 

As you're citing instances where cyclists have actually caused injury and not been brought to book, how on earth are "obvious speeders" going to be dealt with? Speed cameras, peut être?

 

It's a matter of scale, I think. Bigger things hurt little things more.

 

Tell that to a mongoose. I was nearly run over by a cyclist once. He was in his car at the time, mind.

[carlt]

Tell that to a mongoose.

but not while he's riding his bike.

 

Edited February 8, 2011 by carlt

[Beth A]

As you're citing instances where cyclists have actually caused injury and not been brought to book, how on earth are "obvious speeders" going to be dealt with? Speed cameras, peut être?

 

You're right - I was just saying how some people wouldn't care either way, and then go around suggesting that.

 

I was nearly run over by a cyclist once. He was in his car at the time, mind.

 

Hehe

[canaldrifter]

As you're citing instances where cyclists have actually caused injury and not been brought to book, how on earth are "obvious speeders" going to be dealt with? Speed cameras, peut être?

 

It's something useful community coppers could do, by handing out leaflets and advice.

 

Firstly it is still illegal to cycle on most pavements, and there are rules about where cycle lanes can be designated on footpaths.

See page 7:

 

http://www.sustrans.org.uk/assets/files/guidelines/traffic-free%20paths.pdf

 

Towpaths rarely meet these rules.

 

I don't suppose there would be many convictions, but maybe convincement might work. Cycling fast on footpaths should be as anti-social as smoking in pubs.

 

The idea of a 10mph limit is good.

 

On another forum I was advocating that there should be a cycling awareness day held on the waterways, when by sheer numbers, boaters could stop the lycra louts and hand out publicity, making their opinions known.

 

That could still happen.

 

Tone

[muddywaters]

It gets my vote as well. My car is no sporting a lovely gash down the side where a cyclists attempted to stop at the lights beside me without putting their feet down. Result they toppled over and damaged my car

It works the other way as well.

About 20 years ago when cycling home from work.

I was passing a line of parked cars, as I passed one car it started to pull out towards me while the driver was reading the evening paper.

So I hit the drivers door with my fist and left a big dent in it, it was a case of do that or get killed what would you have done ?

Fact is there are idiot cyclists on the road and also idiot drivers along with idiot predestrian, all blaming each other for what goes wrong