More Housing Benefit

[gaggle]

well surely it stops with the generation that is born here??? - doesn't it??

- or is that stating the bleedin' obvious?

It should be obvious but the byeckerslike seems to be saying that the area,s he mentions are full of unemployed immigrants , i would think by this time most of the "immigrants " he talks of are not immigrants at all and are more likely to be british born people of asian /ethnic descent , glad he went on to to state he was not racist as reading his words i was leaning towards thinking that is exactly what he is.

[cotswoldsman]

well surely it stops with the generation that is born here??? - doesn't it??

- or is that stating the bleedin' obvious?

 

Yes I would have thought so myself, now my knowledge of the areas that Byeckerslike was referring to in his alleged non racist remark is mainly populated by people bonr in this country still I am sure he will soon be able to back his statement up with facts and figures.

[ChrisPy]

hey, when I lived in South Devon for a while, I was considered to be a foreign immigrant.

 

if your grandparents weren't born in Devon you were treated as a foreigner. does such parochialism amount to racism?

[hughc]

I agree that it is all getting scarily reminiscent of 1930s Europe,

It isn't just 1930's Europe that springs to mind. During the nineteenth century agricultural wages were so low in southern England that many workers families were starving or seriously malnourished. Rather than pay higher wages the 'Speenhamland system' was introduced whereby starvation was avoided by the Poor Law ensuring that workers, who were still needed by their exploitative employers, were kept alive by subsidies from public funds.Public funds subsidising private employers; it couldn't happen now surely.It was the same period that produced the Tolpuddle Martyrs who were transported for daring to unionise to try and secure better wages and conditions.A good example of Victorian Thatcherism perhaps. Regards, HughC.

[Tiny]

1930s! Where I live a lot of locals - especially the incomers who only arrived in the 1840s but like to pretend they are the old gentry rather than trade, and the farmers who think of themselves as the yeomen of England and less than the squire but better than the mere local houseowners still believe its the middle ages. The strange thing is the local council and the church back them up as they keep most of the local services going while others arrive, try to take over bits of the running of things, then go somewhere else leaving their bit to rot away as no-one takes it over.

[david and julie]

Public funds subsidising private employers; it couldn't happen now surely.

 

Aren't National Gov or EU grants - given mainly to multi nationals(for whatever reason) much the same thing?

[Byeckerslike]

Indeed, manufactured here, but where do the profits go?

 

Minis are german,

Toyotas, Nissans, and Honda,s are of course Japanese,

Jaguar and Land Rover have long since sent their profits to India,

Last three not sure, but aren't bently and RR now german also...

Bentley are owned by VAG and Rolls Royce by BMW

 

Rob

[NB Alnwick]

Bentley are owned by VAG and Rolls Royce by BMW

 

Rob

 

But Morgan is still owned by Morgan and they are still British!

 

 

Of course, none of this debate is in the slightest bit of relevence to those who have spent this sunny afternoon playing Croquet on the lawn while an obedient servant stands ready with another round of Pimms or perhaps a Gin & Tonic . . .

[ymu]

Aren't National Gov or EU grants - given mainly to multi nationals(for whatever reason) much the same thing?

I suspect your sarcasm detector is on the blink.

 

I believe he was referring to working tax credits. Set the minimum wage at 70% of the living wage, and let the taxpayer pick up the difference. There are families with two parents in full-time work who are still dependent on benefits just to get by. Utterly disgusting.

[Grace and Favour]

I can't help thinking that ymu's perfect egalitarian society is already thriving on North Korea

[Byeckerslike]

Why does it bother me when someone who has made a racist implication has to then qualify the statement by saying I am not a racist. At what stage or generation does someone stop being an immigrant? I know those areas of Birmingham that you mention very well and I suggest you are completly wrong and would like to see some facts and figures to back up your statement,

 

Hi,

 

If you know these area's as well I used to, I was born in Sparkhill, you surely must be hard pressed to see evidence of the "enriched fabric of multi-cultured society that our damp eyed politicians refer to, all I can see is seething malevolent hatred pouring from the very beings of these medeivial people.

Why are most of the "Indian Restaurants" serving Halal meat? We both love good curries, and the first thing we now ask, is "is your meat halal?" sadly, the answear is almost always yes, according to one of my colleagues (Indian)' he claims that meat served in most "Indian" restaurants is halal, because most "Indian" restaurants, are not Indian and are selling halal meat, because it goes with their barbaric indoctrine/religion, and it is substantially cheaper, as it is subsidised by Saudia Arabia.

It now transpires that all frozen New Zealand Lamb is 100% halal, would you care to explain why?

 

Rob

[ymu]

I can't help thinking that ymu's perfect egalitarian society is already thriving on North Korea

You think a military dictatorship can be egalitarian? Blimey.

[Guest]

, all I can see is seething malevolent hatred pouring from the very beings of these medeivial people.

 

Rob are you for real?

[Natalie Graham]

Bentley are owned by VAG and Rolls Royce by BMW

 

 

Ah yes, good British companies both. In fact your earlier post, rather than showing I was wrong, actually makes my point for me. If German, Japanese, Korean and French companies can manufacture cars successfully in the UK, why couldn't British companies do so?

Edited October 10, 2010 by Natalie Graham

[Smelly]

Rob your comments.above are nothing short of flagrant islamophobia.. there is no place.for.such Mosleyesque vitriol in a civilised society. If you don't understand why you inspire hatred.I'd.suggest a long period.of.self reflection.

[Lady Muck]

There is no place for comments/hatred like that on this forum. This is Canalworld Discussion Forum, not Stormfront!

[choogh]

There is no place for comments/hatred like that on this forum. This is Canalworld Discussion Forum, not Stormfront!

 

Rob made an opinion based on his knowledge of the area, plus he asked a question.. whats, "hatred comments" about that ? You Guys should get out more often..

[Lady Muck]

Rob made an opinion based on his knowledge of the area, plus he asked a question.. whats, "hatred comments" about that ? You Guys should get out more often..

 

How we personally feel does not come into it - I suggest you read the forum rules and guidelines.

[david and julie]

I suspect your sarcasm detector is on the blink.

 

I believe he was referring to working tax credits. Set the minimum wage at 70% of the living wage, and let the taxpayer pick up the difference. There are families with two parents in full-time work who are still dependent on benefits just to get by. Utterly disgusting.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.

 

I just don't see much difference between public funds being used to subsidise low pay and the giving grants to private companies(the employers). In essence they are both cash leaving taxpayers pockets and ending up on private balance sheets.

 

I'm against both.

[ymu]

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.

 

I just don't see much difference between public funds being used to subsidise low pay and the giving grants to private companies(the employers). In essence they are both cash leaving taxpayers pockets and ending up on private balance sheets.

 

I'm against both.

I know you weren't trying to be sarcastic. It's your sarcasm detector that's on the blink.

[cotswoldsman]

Hi,

 

If you know these area's as well I used to, I was born in Sparkhill, you surely must be hard pressed to see evidence of the "enriched fabric of multi-cultured society that our damp eyed politicians refer to, all I can see is seething malevolent hatred pouring from the very beings of these medeivial people.

Why are most of the "Indian Restaurants" serving Halal meat? We both love good curries, and the first thing we now ask, is "is your meat halal?" sadly, the answear is almost always yes, according to one of my colleagues (Indian)' he claims that meat served in most "Indian" restaurants is halal, because most "Indian" restaurants, are not Indian and are selling halal meat, because it goes with their barbaric indoctrine/religion, and it is substantially cheaper, as it is subsidised by Saudia Arabia.

It now transpires that all frozen New Zealand Lamb is 100% halal, would you care to explain why?

 

Rob

 

I am very tempted not even post a reply to this as it shows complete ignorance of any cultural knowledge, These restaurants are called Indian Restaurants as it is a generic name, should you go to a genuine Indian Restaurant you are correct you would not be served Halal Meat in fact you would be served no meat. Most Indian Restaurants in UK are owned and operated by Bangladeshi descendants and they will only handle Halal Meat. Prior to 1947 they were Muslims living in India. I was unaware that New Zealand frozen meat was all Halal so spent a bit of time researching your statement and found no evidence of this fact, I did find a fact that said New Zealand was the biggest exporter of Halal Meat could you please point me to the evidence that New Zealand frozen meat is all Halal. That apart Halal is purely a method of slaughter and has nothing to do with the quality of the meat.

I must also add that I personally find your post very offensive especially from someone who does not know the difference between culture and religion my fear that your previous post had racist tones has been proved to be correct.

 

 

[ymu]

I am very tempted not even post a reply to this as it shows complete ignorance of any cultural knowledge, These restaurants are called Indian Restaurants as it is a generic name, should you go to a genuine Indian Restaurant you are correct you would not be served Halal Meat in fact you would be served no meat. Most Indian Restaurants in UK are owned and operated by Bangladeshi descendants and they will only handle Halal Meat. Prior to 1947 they were Muslims living in India. I was unaware that New Zealand frozen meat was all Halal so spent a bit of time researching your statement and found no evidence of this fact, I did find a fact that said New Zealand was the biggest exporter of Halal Meat could you please point me to the evidence that New Zealand frozen meat is all Halal. That apart Halal is purely a method of slaughter and has nothing to do with the quality of the meat.

I must also add that I personally find your post very offensive especially from someone who does not know the difference between culture and religion my fear that your previous post had racist tones has been proved to be correct.

Not only that, it is the same method of slaughter as is now used by virtually all licensed abattoirs in the UK.

 

I don't really know where to start with what Rob is saying. It's a sign of the times that this kind of crap is getting said more and more, and openly on boards like this, not just on furtive little hidey holes like St*rmfr*nt. It reminds me of my favourite joke. Funny because it's true, but getting less true every day, at least with respect to islamophobia:

 

How do all racist jokes start?

 

With a quick check over the shoulder to see who's listening.

 

 

Global economic crisis and overt racism directed at a specific ethnic group becoming commonplace, with governments encouraging people to inform on their neighbours. It's all very 1930s.

[NB Alnwick]

I am very tempted not even post a reply to this as it shows complete ignorance of any cultural knowledge, These restaurants are called Indian Restaurants as it is a generic name, should you go to a genuine Indian Restaurant you are correct you would not be served Halal Meat in fact you would be served no meat. Most Indian Restaurants in UK are owned and operated by Bangladeshi descendants and they will only handle Halal Meat. Prior to 1947 they were Muslims living in India. I was unaware that New Zealand frozen meat was all Halal so spent a bit of time researching your statement and found no evidence of this fact, I did find a fact that said New Zealand was the biggest exporter of Halal Meat could you please point me to the evidence that New Zealand frozen meat is all Halal. That apart Halal is purely a method of slaughter and has nothing to do with the quality of the meat.

I must also add that I personally find your post very offensive especially from someone who does not know the difference between culture and religion my fear that your previous post had racist tones has been proved to be correct.

 

The assumptions and generalisations in the above post are based on some common misconceptions that are just as misleading as the post referred to as showing "complete ignorance of any cultural knowledge"!

 

Although many 'Indian Restaurants' in the UK may now be now owned or staffed by people whose family origins are Bangladeshi and are likely to follow Islamic customs (including the use of Halal products) India itself is a multicultural nation that permits and respects many diverse religious beliefs. And, although the majority of Indian nationals may be vegetarian, it is not correct to say that in "a genuine Indian Restaurant", "you would be served no meat".

 

Many Indian restaurants in the UK, in India and elsewhere in the World are owned or staffed by Sikhs. The Sikh religion forbids the consumption of meat that has been prepared in a way that causes unnecessary suffering to the animals. Therefore, these restaurants would be most unlikely to use Halal products. I know this because my first wife was a Sikh - her family owned a number of restaurants and, as a young man, I worked in one of them.

 

Similarly there are 'Indian Restaurants' that are owned or staffed by people whose ancestral origins included conversion to Christianity and generations of life in British colonial Africa before coming to the UK. There are also restaurants that are owned and staffed by Hindus, Jains and Buddhists where meat is unlikely to be available.

 

We are a very tolerant nation and there are no restrictions in the UK to prevent followers of Islam from observing their religious beliefs. Nevertheless, there are many people who believe that the practice of slaughtering animals in conformity with the prescribed Islamic rituals may be causing unnecessary suffering.

Edited October 11, 2010 by NB Alnwick

[ymu]

Nevertheless, there are many people who believe that the practice of slaughtering animals in conformity with the prescribed Islamic rituals may be causing unnecessary suffering.

That's a propaganda belief. Halal slaughter, and kosher slaughter, are the most humane methods of slaughter - which is why licensed abattoirs generally use the same methods. The only controversy is whether stunning before slitting the throat is halal. Some Muslims argue that this risks breaking the rule that the animal must be alive when the throat is cut, but this is a minority view and licensed halal abattoirs in the UK do stun the animals.

 

Most of the propaganda about halal slaughter seems to focus on the fact that the animal is left to bleed for hours. This propaganda never mentions that the animal died within seconds of the throat being cut, rather than literally being left to bleed to death, or that it is absolutely standard practice in any abattoir, or indeed that most of us would gag on mammalian meat that had not been drained of blood before cooking.

[carlt]

Nevertheless, there are many people who believe that the practice of slaughtering animals in conformity with the prescribed Islamic rituals may be causing unnecessary suffering.

I assume that anyone who criticises the last few moments of an animal killed according to Halal customs, as enduring unnecessary suffering, never eats intensively farmed pig products or caged chickens and their eggs.

Edited October 11, 2010 by carlt