BW's plans to create a mutual charitable trust?

[adam1uk]

Hmm, making the license fee a membership fee and claiming gift aid would be a great bonus but does anyone know what proportion of BWs income is currently derived from license fees? I'm assuming that BW publishes accounts somewhere...

 

They do.

[Morat]

Thanks!!

 

So out of a total income of £222.3m, the government grant was £74.3m and all the license fees accounted for £15.1m

Ouch

[Richard Fairhurst]

Is there a proposed structure for this mutual trust and if so, am I being hopelessly naive in hoping that boaters would have a share and a vote?

There is a proposed structure, yes - reported in the current WW (June issue). Or at least, that's BW's current proposals, but it all has to go to consultation and we're at liberty to say "that's rubbish, get stuffed".

 

Without retyping the whole thing, basically they're suggesting a council which has representation from significant interests, including boating user groups. They are not suggesting direct elections to the council.

 

Personally I think there should be at least some elected members to the council - even if not the whole body.

[Derek R.]

There is a proposed structure, yes - reported in the current WW (June issue). Or at least, that's BW's current proposals, but it all has to go to consultation and we're at liberty to say "that's rubbish, get stuffed".

 

Without retyping the whole thing, basically they're suggesting a council which has representation from significant interests, including boating user groups. They are not suggesting direct elections to the council.

 

Personally I think there should be at least some elected members to the council - even if not the whole body.

 

Not meaning to dull your comment Richard, but . .

 

'Proposed' Love that word - "We are proposing to sail around the World in a barrel". Well, someone has to make some sort of proposal certainly, but how many are of any value, and how many are researched prior to. We don't know. And another gem: 'Consultation'. Ken Livingstone was infamously quoted as seeing consultations as a complete waste of his time. They were an obstacle negotiated for the sake of political correctness and slowed him down in acting as he had every intention of acting - consultation or no! If your Consultant brings you into his practice to tell you - you have a cancer Mr. X - tell him 'Rubbish' by all means, won't change the facts.

 

Sound proposals and true consultations are not the usual way in which government departments work. Take any branch of road safety measures proposed by local authorities. Their consultation is nothing short of an announcement of what is being proposed. Go along to a meeting - speak your mind along with a majority of stakeholders who are in agreement - a report comes out later that as the 'majority' of residents of such and such area did not attend the meeting, and therefore did not object to the proposals "by their absence and silence", the motion is thereby carried, and the said proposals are carried out.

 

You think that's undemocratic? Not possible? It happens all the time, and happened close by me in a nearby village just a couple of months ago - and that was with representatives of various user groups, many living locally present and vociferous. Those who attended and were present were considered to be all of an anti-proposal delegation, not typical of the community at large. Unbelievable.

 

Marsworth Proposals. Yes, they got a surprise there, but planning was on the cards, and objections to a third party - the Council - were key elements in achieving something positive. Where do we turn when something National, and so uncertain is the issue? There could be a lot riding on this one, and a totally fiscally independent entity supported by users and sponsors alone, will not balance the books.

 

It will be complex and detailed, and we may not be privy to all.

 

Derek

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Thanks!!

 

So out of a total income of £222.3m, the government grant was £74.3m and all the license fees accounted for £15.1m

Ouch

 

You have to remember that BW only spend about £100m of that £222.3m maintaining the canals. Also that direct income from boaters (licence fees plus mooring charges) and indirect income (connection charges BWML profit etc) brings that £15.1m figure to about £25 million.

 

Put another way boaters and the taxpayer fund 100% of canal maintenance. Perhaps, if some of the £122.3m that BW did not spend on maintaing the canals was used to do so.........

 

Financial savings from going third sector are minimal. Based on the latest BW projection, in the fourth year after "M" day, BW will save just £3.6 million. This figure includes total voluntary income and donations,

rates relief and other operating cost savings, volunteering cost saving contribution and even very speculative extra return on capital from debt gearing. Needless to say it does not include the £1 million a year that could be saved by aligning executive directors salaries to the third sector. Nor does it include the drop in government grant that will happen!

 

Remember, the last government saw third sector as a way to save money. I have no doubt this government has similar views.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Allan(nb Albert)

[Josher]

There is an article in the FT today here written by Tristram Hunt, Laqbour MP for Stoke on Trent. He is advocating the mutual model for BW and challenging David Cameron to adopt this as part of his 'Big Society' initiative.

[sebrof]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the tax advantage of establishing a Charirty to run the canals. As a Charity they would be able to claim back 20% from each licence fee for every "member" who is a tax payer. It may become a bit complex because the fee payed may have to comprise of a significant proportiion being annual membership, and only a small amount licence fee, but I am sure there are accountants out there who could work it out. They would also be eligible to register for excemption from VAT on certain areas of expenditure. Whether such measures would cover the alledged 30million deficit I do not know, but it would go some way.

 

Where did you get this bright idea from?

[Josher]

From Waterscape:

 

 

Clive Henderson to take up new role on BW Board

 

19th Jul 2010

 

British Waterways (BW) and Defra are considering the creation of two new positions of Special Advisors to the BW Board in order to support the proposed transition of BW’s canals and rivers in England and Wales into civil society.

 

The unpaid positions will have full Board Member status and would advise and support BW as it builds the model and then transfers to the civil society.

 

While details of the new positions and selection process are being considered, BW and the Inland Waterways Association (IWA) have today announced that Clive Henderson will take on the interim role as Observer to the Board, attending all Board Meetings until the final selections are made.

 

'National Trust' for the waterways

 

BW chairman Tony Hales explains: “There is now real enthusiasm for the idea of establishing a new ‘national trust’ for the waterways. For this to happen we have to begin a root and branch change in the way all those who love the waterways - the managers, the users and the campaigners - work together.”

 

“I cannot think of a better person to help us start this process than Clive. As chairman of the IWA and chairman elect of the British Waterways Advisory Forum, as well as being a respected waterway campaigner of 25 years, he brings great experience and wisdom at a time when we are looking to build a completely new organisation to care for our waterways in the future.”

 

Welcoming the news Clive said: “We are at a crossroads in the history of the waterways. The goal that so many campaigners have worked so long and so hard to achieve is within sight and we have a British Waterways and a Government who are genuinely open to new ideas of working. We now have a great opportunity to work together for a common goal. For my part I am delighted to have the chance to play a role in the reshaping of British Waterways.”

[seaandland]

That’s all well and good, but meaningless without volunteers.

[rgreg]

One thing is for sure, BW managers have a selling job to do with their front-line staff. I was talking at some length to a couple of lock-keepers (who were also boat owners as it happened) last night and they were very sceptical and concerned about what the proposed "third sector" means to both themselves and the future of the waterways.

[sueb]

From Waterscape:

 

 

Clive Henderson to take up new role on BW Board

 

19th Jul 2010

 

British Waterways (BW) and Defra are considering the creation of two new positions of Special Advisors to the BW Board in order to support the proposed transition of BW’s canals and rivers in England and Wales into civil society.

 

The unpaid positions will have full Board Member status and would advise and support BW as it builds the model and then transfers to the civil society.

 

While details of the new positions and selection process are being considered, BW and the Inland Waterways Association (IWA) have today announced that Clive Henderson will take on the interim role as Observer to the Board, attending all Board Meetings until the final selections are made.

 

'National Trust' for the waterways

 

BW chairman Tony Hales explains: “There is now real enthusiasm for the idea of establishing a new ‘national trust’ for the waterways. For this to happen we have to begin a root and branch change in the way all those who love the waterways - the managers, the users and the campaigners - work together.”

 

“I cannot think of a better person to help us start this process than Clive. As chairman of the IWA and chairman elect of the British Waterways Advisory Forum, as well as being a respected waterway campaigner of 25 years, he brings great experience and wisdom at a time when we are looking to build a completely new organisation to care for our waterways in the future.”

 

Welcoming the news Clive said: “We are at a crossroads in the history of the waterways. The goal that so many campaigners have worked so long and so hard to achieve is within sight and we have a British Waterways and a Government who are genuinely open to new ideas of working. We now have a great opportunity to work together for a common goal. For my part I am delighted to have the chance to play a role in the reshaping of British Waterways.”

 

Why doesn't that make me feel better?

Sue