Improving the basics for new boaters.

[Mick and Maggie]

A passport for anyone hiring a boat.

 

Click the link for the full text.

 

"I have long thought that some sort of "Canal and River Passport" is needed for people hiring a canal boat for the first time. I have a similar one which is a "PADI certificate" for scuba diving. It doesent make me a highly qualified diver - but it acknowledges that I have undergone some formal awareness and safety training. Looking through the media - some narrow boat holidays are advertised as "no or little boating experience needed". What I would like to see is a Canal and River Passport issued as part of a hire contract. To obtain the initial Passport the hirer will have to undergo around a two hours of training on basic boat handling, mooring and locking tasks. There would be no test - just a practical introduction. This could be done for a small fee (say £25) and included in the first time hire charge."

 

Would this work as a way of improving standards for holiday boaters?

[ambuvanner]

A passport for anyone hiring a boat.

 

Click the link for the full text.

 

"I have long thought that some sort of "Canal and River Passport" is needed for people hiring a canal boat for the first time. I have a similar one which is a "PADI certificate" for scuba diving. It doesent make me a highly qualified diver - but it acknowledges that I have undergone some formal awareness and safety training. Looking through the media - some narrow boat holidays are advertised as "no or little boating experience needed". What I would like to see is a Canal and River Passport issued as part of a hire contract. To obtain the initial Passport the hirer will have to undergo around a two hours of training on basic boat handling, mooring and locking tasks. There would be no test - just a practical introduction. This could be done for a small fee (say £25) and included in the first time hire charge."

 

Would this work as a way of improving standards for holiday boaters?

Good idea or better still a Waterways Driving Licence with a Theory Test

[Naughty Cal]

Who would run this "passport" scheme.

 

2 hours is a long time out of a hire yards staff hours, especially if they have a large fleet and need to do it for every set of hirers.

[magpie patrick]

Good idea or better still a Waterways Driving Licence with a Theory Test

 

 

and economic ruin for the hire boat industry?

[carlt]

Good idea or better still a Waterways Driving Licence with a Theory Test

Yes we've got to find some way to reduce the appalling death and carnage, on the waterways!!

[Gibbo]

We could also introduce a mandatory training course for anyone buying a tin of paint, or baked beans.

 

How about a licence to own a pencil?

 

How about we have enough red tape, stupid laws, regulations and people telling us what we can and can't do without someone thinking up yet more.

[Idunhoe]

This subject has been discussed long and hard in the past with the main objectors being the hire industry as has been stated they see it as having the potential for economic ruin. However no one would dream of going into Hertz to hire a car without a driving licence and thus unable to demonstrate that they have at least the basic skills needed to safely drive a car on the public highway. Why are boats so different - they are much more expensive to buy than even most luxury cars, also they have, if handled incorrectly, the potential to do considerable damage to both life and property.

What is it about this country where people seem to think that they have the right to take out a boat, and not only on inland waterways but on the high seas, without the need to show that they are capable of handling that boat.

[harleyj]

We could also introduce a mandatory training course for anyone buying a tin of paint, or baked beans.

 

How about a licence to own a pencil?

 

How about we have enough red tape, stupid laws, regulations and people telling us what we can and can't do without someone thinking up yet more.

When we went on our first narrowboat holiday it was a bit daunting but really it is just a bit of common sense driving one.

You can't legislate against idiots, they are just out there.

[Jim]

A passport for anyone hiring a boat.

 

 

Would this work as a way of improving standards for holiday boaters?

 

So, no need for people you've just bought a boat to learn how to use it then?

Edited April 14, 2010 by Jim

[alan_fincher]

I can't help feeling that if a similar number of people to those who hire narrow boats were let loose with diving equipment that the accident rate diving might be well above that for boating. So I don't really thing the comparison valid, TBH.

 

If I am going in for open heart surgery, I'd really like to think that my surgeon was trained to the highest possible levels, and that his certification would have been refused had he not passed demanding exams and practical tests.

 

However, when you come to less demanding things, a sensible balance has to be made on regulation and certification.

 

The reality is that, despite all the intrinsic dangers, people have been hire boating for many, many years, and really the accident rates are remarkably low, (probably trivial, compared to some things people do for leisure?).

 

I see not a jot of evidence that all the steps that have been taken to supposedly make canals safer, such as handrails here there and everywhere, or signs on everything, have actually achieved the results that I suppose someone must have been aiming for.

 

Can we please leave things "as is"........

 

Why are boats so different ..............

Are you seriously suggesting that if you did away for any need for car driver training or certification that there would be no higher attrition rate than there currently is with leisure narrow boating ?

 

Seems unlikely doesn't it ?

 

OK you can do a lot of damage with a narrow-boat in the wrong hands, but you really have to work hard to even get a 10 mph collision between two narrowboats flat out. It's dead easy to get two cars, (which are rather less robust, and protecting to those in them), to collide at combined speeds of over 150 mph.

 

Rather a different scenario.............

[ambuvanner]

We could also introduce a mandatory training course for anyone buying a tin of paint, or baked beans.

 

How about a licence to own a pencil?

 

How about we have enough red tape, stupid laws, regulations and people telling us what we can and can't do without someone thinking up yet more.

So I take it you'd be happy to let a novice having viewed a 15 minute video and 30 minute (if you're lucky) practical instruction go out on your boat? lol

[carlt]

What is it about this country where people seem to think that they have the right to take out a boat, and not only on inland waterways but on the high seas, without the need to show that they are capable of handling that boat.

Because it is a very safe pastime, perhaps?

 

It is a well known fact that, despite there being a legal requirement to pass a test, before driving a car, the most dangerous part of any boat journey, inland or off-shore, is the drive to the mooring.

Edited April 14, 2010 by carlt

[Naughty Cal]

So I take it you'd be happy to let a novice having viewed a 15 minute video and 30 minute (if you're lucky) practical instruction go out on your boat? lol

 

Letting a novice loose in your own boat is personal choice, however we are talking about the hire boat company whos livelihood depends on hiring boats out to complete strangers often novices.

[carlt]

So I take it you'd be happy to let a novice having viewed a 15 minute video and 30 minute (if you're lucky) practical instruction go out on your boat? lol

Why not?

 

I've taken people out on my boat and let them take the helm with no training whatsoever.

[Gibbo]

So I take it you'd be happy to let a novice having viewed a 15 minute video and 30 minute (if you're lucky) practical instruction go out on your boat? lol

 

The people that hire boats out are happy. The system clearly works as it is, otherwise all the hire boat companies would be out of business and there'd be a long list of accidents and injuries.

[Naughty Cal]

Why not?

 

I've taken people out on my boat and let them take the helm with no training whatsoever.

 

Who hasnt?

[Teadaemon]

There's already a voluntary scheme - RYA Inland Waterways Helmsman's Course.

 

No, I don't think it should be compulsory, but I'd strongly recommend it for anyone who's not already confident in their ability to handle a boat.

[Mick and Maggie]

Who would run this "passport" scheme.

 

how about, ACPO - not the Association of Chief Police Officers. It's the other one The Association of Pleasure Craft Operators. http://www.apco.org.uk/

 

Have a look at what they say about handovers on their website… http://www.apco.org.uk/handover.htm

 

2 hours is a long time out of a hire yards staff hours, especially if they have a large fleet and need to do it for every set of hirers.

 

How about a part time employment opportunity for some retired but experienced boaters?

 

economic ruin for the hire boat industry?

 

No that's BW's job

 

I would have thought it was more of a business opportunity. Expanding into a simple form of basic boat training. Also good PR and a good sales leader for any nervous first time hirer.

[magpie patrick]

This subject has been discussed long and hard in the past with the main objectors being the hire industry as has been stated they see it as having the potential for economic ruin. However no one would dream of going into Hertz to hire a car without a driving licence and thus unable to demonstrate that they have at least the basic skills needed to safely drive a car on the public highway. Why are boats so different - they are much more expensive to buy than even most luxury cars, also they have, if handled incorrectly, the potential to do considerable damage to both life and property.

What is it about this country where people seem to think that they have the right to take out a boat, and not only on inland waterways but on the high seas, without the need to show that they are capable of handling that boat.

 

In answer to your question, there are many differences

 

First, driving is generally regarded as a life skill, many people learn to drive long before they own or hire a car, whereas handling a narrow boat is not regarded in the same light, no one learns how on the off-chance of a boat holiday years down the line.

 

Second, the danger, real and percieved. The driving test was introduced as a response to carnage on the roads that was put down in part to lack of driver training. By carnage I mean twice the death rate of today with only a fraction of the vehicles on the road. You can drive a car into a bus stop queue and kill ten people, not something that is practical in a boat.

 

While some people moan about inconsiderate hirers no regulation would stop this. What proportion of people who break speed limits and drive over the legal alcohol limit have passed a driving test? nearly 100%. So it's about safety, and where is the carnage that must be stopped? How many people die or are seriously injured on canals in a year? and what proportion of these would have been saved by a passport or driving test?

 

And in any event, would a passport issued on the Monmouth and Brecon really equip a hirer for a trip down the river Trent next year?

 

 

I would have thought it was more of a business opportunity. Expanding into a simple form of basic boat training. Also good PR and a good sales leader for any nervous first time hirer.

 

Not really, to be a business opportunity the training would have to make a profit and the extra cost not put people off boat holidays, which are already eye wateringly expensive

[mayalld]

What is it about this country where people seem to think that they have the right to take out a boat, and not only on inland waterways but on the high seas, without the need to show that they are capable of handling that boat.

 

Well, at the simplest level, they think it, because they do have just that right!

[imnogeek]

hmmmm.. with a test in place, if I go out to hire a boat with my family (all six of us) we would all have to take the test to be allowed to drive or should we have a "designated driver"? would my 11 year old son need to do the same before we let him steer for a while? Who would police this and how?

 

If a sensible person wants to hire but is unsure of thier abilities they can go on a course, they then will go out better equipped to deal with what lies ahead; on the other hand if an inconsiderate idiot hires a boat, with or without extra training he is still an inconsiderate idiot that will cause upset and danger.

[mayalld]

I just don't see that compulsory testing would work.

 

What might work is if hire companies offered a discount to parties where one of the members was qualified.

[Mick and Maggie]

I just don't see that compulsory testing would work.

 

I don't think that any compulsort testing is involved. just some basic advice and awareness instruction.

 

What might work is if hire companies offered a discount to parties where one of the members was qualified.

 

I think you suggestion of a discount was to be offered to passport holders (and RYA inland helmsman certificate holders as well) would be a good start...

 

I think the Association of Pleasure Craft Operators could encourage their members towards running such a scheme.

[Naughty Cal]

How about a part time employment opportunity for some retired but experienced boaters?

 

And who pays their wages?

[carlt]

And who pays their wages?

...and for their training.