Re: BUYER BEWARE

[Cosmic]

Just a thought - you could add a button to your page that gets it listed on the UK Waterways Ranking Site. That way, it will be seen by other people interested in boats who don't necessarily come here.

 

(There's also a worldwide one, if you want to get really ambitious - several UK sites are already listed there)

[Diane]

Hi Sue,

 

I've watched all the Utube vids, very scary. I'm sorry to hear what you have had to go through

 

(deleted text)

 

I wonder why hasn't he commented on here? (Rhetorical)

 

 

Kev

 

Edited to remove questions that cannot be discussed openly on here unfortunately.

 

 

He watches everything but never posts anything.

 

What could he say anyway?!

[hydrophobia]

Just a thought - you could add a button to your page that gets it listed on the UK Waterways Ranking Site. That way, it will be seen by other people interested in boats who don't necessarily come here.

 

(There's also a worldwide one, if you want to get really ambitious - several UK sites are already listed there)

 

Hi and thanks, we are listening to ALL your suggestions but we are having to go through a third party because we havn't got a clue, the only buttons I know are Cadburys!? Anyway just heard back from him and it doesn't look like we have any ftp access?

Edited November 28, 2009 by hydrophobia

[Cosmic]

You should have FTP access, so I imagine it must be a temporary problem with your ISP (1&1, isn't it?). The person doing your website should be able to sort that out for you.

 

The UK ranking site I mentioned says that as soon as you sign up they give yo a bit of code that you put on your page, and this does all the work for you. Again, this shouldn't be a problem for the person doing the website. I imagine the worldwide one is very similar.

[hydrophobia]

You should have FTP access, so I imagine it must be a temporary problem with your ISP (1&1, isn't it?). The person doing your website should be able to sort that out for you.

 

The UK ranking site I mentioned says that as soon as you sign up they give yo a bit of code that you put on your page, and this does all the work for you. Again, this shouldn't be a problem for the person doing the website. I imagine the worldwide one is very similar.

Hi Tony, I have spoken to my isp and they say I have no ftp access because it is only a very basic package, consequently we are limited to what we can do, which is why we have to go via America and back to read the surveyors report. Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

[Heffalump]

well it's going on my blog. give the bugger hell

[Laurie Booth]

Hi and thanks, we are listening to ALL your suggestions but we are having to go through a third party because we havn't got a clue, the only buttons I know are Cadburys!? Anyway just heard back from him and it doesn't look like we have any ftp access?

Hi,

I've added a section on my menu called buying a new boat.

 

New Menu on my site.

Just click the link on the top menu bar

[hydrophobia]

Had a look at your site, thanks both of you that's brill. While you're at it take a look at this... www.boatshopuk.co.uk

click on other sections then services then new boatbuilders. Suffice to say I have just sent them an e-mail, hope you all do too! Keep up the good work.

Edited November 29, 2009 by hydrophobia

[Laurie Booth]

Had a look at your site, thanks both of you that's brill. While you're at it take a look at this... www.boatshopuk.co.uk

suffice to say I have just sent them an e-mail, hope you all do too! Keep up the good work.

My pleasure

[mikevye]

According to Google a certain boat company has had 1240 hits yet Tuffin Hell has had 1676 hits on its own counter why then isn't it at the top of the leader board?

[hydrophobia]

According to Google a certain boat company has had 1240 hits yet Tuffin Hell has had 1676 hits on its own counter why then isn't it at the top of the leader board?

 

REALLY, Yeh I would like to know why too?? Well lets just give my site a few more clicks then. I have just put on an update...See you round at mine!

 

Click on my link below.

[grahoom]

REALLY, Yeh I would like to know why too?? Well lets just give my site a few more clicks then. I have just put on an update...See you round at mine!

 

Click on my link below.

 

Well it doesn't quite work like that - SEO is a murky world - many factors are important.

 

Firstly the Title (the bit that appears in the browser at the very top) could do with some other key words, you've got the name of the Boat builder but you might want to focus on some other key words that are important.

 

the age of the domain, this also helps ranking an older the domain the better

 

LINKS!!! more links to your site - try and get more links.

 

If you look on google you'll see you're title is still displaying the old one, so this would indicate that the google bots havn't come and re indexed your page since the changes.

 

Another good thing is to have a sitemap.xml file that has all the pages in an xml document for the little google bots to index your site easier.

 

if I do a search (no quotes) of the boat builder then you're page appears on the first page of google. - that's pretty good.

 

So I guess you might want to look at what other search terms you would like to rank highly, - but for the purpose of your blog the name of the boat builder in question is as good a search term as any I reckon.

[buccaneer]

This is awarning to all who can you trust in this marketplace and how can the same people do this over and over again or just pass ownership of a company to someone else and in this case a close family member,but generally this is often the case.

Who will now buy this boat? and not know its history,all motor vechicles have a V5 as some proof of ownership I know this is a little of the point but the boat market needs more in proof of ownership.

I hope this will now give us a need to be alert and go into the history of boats and look for good refferals for new boat builders but we also need some kind of log of who owns what.

I hate more paperwork but the leisure boat market might need it.

[barge sara]

Fancy a new car? A really flash one? Say £80,000 worth?

Walk into the dealership, agree what you want and then the salesman says, "OK, you just give us £20K and we'll ask the factory to allocate a slot on the production line. Then once we start making it you can give us another £20K, and we'll deliver your new car sometime next year after you've paid the remaining £40K."

You happily hand over the £20K and walk away.

 

Would you? Really?

 

So why do people buy boats that way?

If the builder hasn't got the money to fund the build, with just a reasonable 'good faith' deposit, find another builder!

[NiceNarrowboat]

But John, you are not comparing like for like. When you buy a car, you are buying something that is usually mass produced, with much more efficient economies of scale than any narrowboat on offer at £60,000.

 

Now, if you wanted a genuine bespoke car built by a small business, if not a one-man band, you'd be looking at a lot more than 60K and, yes, you'd probably be expected to underwrite its build.

[barge sara]

But John, you are not comparing like for like. When you buy a car, you are buying something that is usually mass produced, with much more efficient economies of scale than any narrowboat on offer at £60,000.

 

Now, if you wanted a genuine bespoke car built by a small business, if not a one-man band, you'd be looking at a lot more than 60K and, yes, you'd probably be expected to underwrite its build.

 

Even so, in any bespoke business the usual arrangement is to make stage payments on completion of the stage

There are builders out there who don't demand enormous amounts up front.

What other business would expect its customers to fund its turnover?

 

I still say that anyone who hands over a large wadge of cash before any work is done and signed off, is taking an unecessary risk.

[NiceNarrowboat]

Erm, other businesses do ask for cash up front, e.g. holiday companies, airlines, private schools, royal mail...

 

Craftsman and artists sometimes do bespoke items and you commisson them - and pay them beforehand.

 

Agreed that there is risk involved - there is with everything. Hence, the title of these thread 'BUYER BEWARE'. Hydrophobia, will no doubt, endorse your view of using other builders out there, as would I.

[barge sara]

Erm, other businesses do ask for cash up front, e.g. holiday companies, airlines, private schools, royal mail...

Can't recall when I last paid serious cash of the magnitude we're talking about to any of those. Most of them have some sort of trade association as back up, and I would pay by credit card to get the protection that provides.

 

Craftsman and artists sometimes do bespoke items and you commisson them - and pay them beforehand.

Absolutely, I'd forgotten about the £80K statue in the back garden.

[hydrophobia]

Fancy a new car? A really flash one? Say £80,000 worth?

Walk into the dealership, agree what you want and then the salesman says, "OK, you just give us £20K and we'll ask the factory to allocate a slot on the production line. Then once we start making it you can give us another £20K, and we'll deliver your new car sometime next year after you've paid the remaining £40K."

You happily hand over the £20K and walk away.

 

Would you? Really?

 

So why do people buy boats that way?

If the builder hasn't got the money to fund the build, with just a reasonable 'good faith' deposit, find another builder!

 

People buy boats that way because it is the norm in boatland, and was more so in 07 when we were looking for a builder however it is not the norm to buy a car that way so I dont understand the similarity?

We paid a £800 deposit on a £15,000 kitchen but we had to pay the balance before it was delivered. Ok maybe its not as much as a boat but it's still a large sum...The company went bust, it was MFI.

OF COURSE we made HUGE mistakes and we are now paying the price BUT my builder isn't.

To blame us for our woe's is to let our builder off which I will never do.

There are two kinds of people in this world, the type like NiceNarrowboat who stand by you when the chips are down and the Schaden Freude type who prefer to kick you when you are down.

When we decided to go public with our story we knew we were setting ourselves up for people to take a pop at us so we were pleasantly suprised when the majority were sympathetic.

Edited December 4, 2009 by hydrophobia

[ditchcrawler]

Fancy a new car? A really flash one? Say £80,000 worth?

Walk into the dealership, agree what you want and then the salesman says, "OK, you just give us £20K and we'll ask the factory to allocate a slot on the production line. Then once we start making it you can give us another £20K, and we'll deliver your new car sometime next year after you've paid the remaining £40K."

You happily hand over the £20K and walk away.

 

Would you? Really?

 

So why do people buy boats that way?

If the builder hasn't got the money to fund the build, with just a reasonable 'good faith' deposit, find another builder!

I have always wondered that. When we had our shell built the chap that built it couldn't understand it. The fit out company wants thousands off you when you order and gave him a couple of hundred until he delivered the hull to them.

[robkg]

I have not followed a thread and all it's links as thoroughly as this one for a long time (I think the last time was the Paul Sylvan Webasto saga!)

It was rather like being glued to a horror film, you don't like what you are seeing but can't stop watching.

 

I have huge sympathies for "Hydrophobia". your experiences must have been a nightmare.

 

I have fitted out two boats for my own use and with that experience, it is beyond me how any boatbuilder can begin to think that not insulating the

shell steelwork from the lining material is acceptable. It is not expensive, it does not require a high level of skill, so it can only be a complete lack

of professionalism and integrity. As for all the shoddy carpentry, the individuals involved clearly do not possess the skills necessary and should

seek alternative employment.

 

Prehaps I should look again at boatfitting as a business.

 

Rob

[Odana]

Just had a peek at the 'other' site and my, what a fine-looking boat Hydrophobia looks in its 'successful projects' page. And as for the arguments for not buying second hand - flawless!! Off to order meself one for next Christmas and pay the deposit, once my half-million pound bonus for this year's slacking comes through...

 

Or then again, I may just appreciate my 20-year old, slightly scruffy but serviceable Odana a bit more, and thank goodness that Orion Narrowboats who refitted her for me when I was an innocent newbie did such a damn fine job for a price I now know was ridiculously good value.

[barge sara]

People buy boats that way because it is the norm in boatland, and was more so in 07 when we were looking for a builder however it is not the norm to buy a car that way so I dont understand the similarity?

We paid a £800 deposit on a £15,000 kitchen but we had to pay the balance before it was delivered. Ok maybe its not as much as a boat but it's still a large sum...The company went bust, it was MFI.

OF COURSE we made HUGE mistakes and we are now paying the price BUT my builder isn't.

To blame us for our woe's is to let our builder off which I will never do.

There are two kinds of people in this world, the type like NiceNarrowboat who stand by you when the chips are down and the Schaden Freude type who prefer to kick you when you are down.

When we decided to go public with our story we knew we were setting ourselves up for people to take a pop at us so we were pleasantly suprised when the majority were sympathetic.

 

Schadenfreude? No, I take no pleaure at all in your misfortune. Nor is it my intention to have a pop at you personally.

Maybe I'm more distrustful than most (30 years in construction could be to blame..) but I don't hand over large amounts up front for anything, particularly without a cast iron contract, and I genuinely wonder why anyone would.

There is always someone out there who is prepared and able to fund the work and be paid after delivery.

[Albion]

There is always someone out there who is prepared and able to fund the work and be paid after delivery.

 

I'm not convinced that there are many 3, 4, 5 or 6 man small businesses that have the required cash flow to be able to shell out say £40K to £70K (and upwards, depending on build quality and spec) up front for a period of 6 to 9 months. Also, I would question, using your argument, how any small boat builder can get their business started from scratch however honest they are.

Roger

[barge sara]

I would question, using your argument, how any small boat builder can get their business started from scratch however honest they are.

Roger

 

But is the answer to your question "Get the customer to lend them the start-up capital"?

Not if I'm the customer it isn't!

Although, thinking about it, you'd possibly have better security making a loan secured on the business than making up- front payments on a boat.

 

One way around it is for the buyer to purchase the materials directly and employ the builder as a labour only sub-contractor. Then at least you have immediate title to the work in progress.

Even then you still need to make sure the builder doesn't use your materials in someone elses boat.

 

 

If I want to give away money I'll choose a deserving charity....