Two old boats

[billh]

Just looking at Laurence's video clip reminded me of Whatcroft Flash and got me thinking.......

Boat one :

Ian Riley recovered the "Scotia" from the flash , years ago. She had been a motor maintenance boat ( fleet number 6) for the LNER, mostly operating on the Macclesfield Canal. So, questions: was she motorised by the LNER ? Had she been a "knobstick" Anderton Co boat, she had very fine lines and looked very elegant? What engine was fitted? i know that Ian cut her in half on the bank at Runcorn ( Boat & Butty yard), but what became of her? Broken up & burnt or what? I have heard that Scotia had a painting of "Flying Scotsman" 4472 loco on the engine room bulkhead during the 1930's - the same company owned the boat & the loco, so that ties in. So, where did she come from & where did she go?

Boat two: George & Matthews, coal merchants of Wolverhampton had a wooden motor built about 1935 called "Wanderer" ( Wolverhampton- geddit?) it was fitted with a National 2 cylinder diesel. They also had FMC President for some years. Sometime shortly after nationalisation, Wanderer came into the ownership of BW (D&IWE) , possibly taken in lieu of unpaid tolls by G & M. The boat was taken to the Gorton,Manchester dock , under her own power, so apparently not in bad condition being rather less than 15 years old and never heard of again. So, does anyone have any idea what became of her? Cut up & burnt or transformed with another identity to be another maintenance boat in the North Western fleet?

[Athy]

What was the LNER doing in Cheshire? As they were the London & North Eastern Railway I didn't think that their lines went so far west.

[RLWP]

What was the LNER doing in Cheshire? As they were the London & North Eastern Railway I didn't think that their lines went so far west.

 

They had a part in the Cheshire Lines Committee through the Great Central and the Great Northern

 

Richard

[billh]

What was the LNER doing in Cheshire? As they were the London & North Eastern Railway I didn't think that their lines went so far west.

 

The MS & L railway bought out the Ashton, Peak Forest and Macc Canals in 1846. They actually encouraged traffic , particularly from Bugsworth as it was a source of Limestone ballast for their new railway. The MS& L became Great Central in 1898 and GC became LNER in 1923.

The 3 canals known as the Western Canals , (there was also the Chesterfield) went with the railway. None of these canals became derelict until BW (D&IWE) got their hands on them. The LNER maintained them quite well until its demise in 1948.- they had a rather powerful Steam dredger ( the Joseph) which saw a lot of use on these canals- this was scrapped after nationalisation and replaced with ... nothing.

Bill

 

What was the LNER doing in Cheshire? As they were the London & North Eastern Railway I didn't think that their lines went so far west.

The LNER extended west into North Wales - to Wrexham . The Wrexham, Mold & Connah's Quay line was Great Central, then LNER.There was also an LNER line to Wigan Central and the Cheshire Lines to Chester and Liverpool.

Bill

[Athy]

They had a part in the Cheshire Lines Committee through the Great Central and the Great Northern

 

Richard

Live and learn - I never knew that! Come to think of it, when I was about 10 I used to train-spot at Sheffield Victoria station which was ex-Great Central, and I remember that they used to run trains to Manchester. Thank you (and to billh whose post I have just seen) for information.

[pete harrison]

Just looking at Laurence's video clip reminded me of Whatcroft Flash and got me thinking.......

Boat one :

Ian Riley recovered the "Scotia" from the flash , years ago. She had been a motor maintenance boat ( fleet number 6) for the LNER, mostly operating on the Macclesfield Canal. So, questions: was she motorised by the LNER ? Had she been a "knobstick" Anderton Co boat, she had very fine lines and looked very elegant? What engine was fitted? i know that Ian cut her in half on the bank at Runcorn ( Boat & Butty yard), but what became of her? Broken up & burnt or what? I have heard that Scotia had a painting of "Flying Scotsman" 4472 loco on the engine room bulkhead during the 1930's - the same company owned the boat & the loco, so that ties in. So, where did she come from & where did she go?

Boat two: George & Matthews, coal merchants of Wolverhampton had a wooden motor built about 1935 called "Wanderer" ( Wolverhampton- geddit?) it was fitted with a National 2 cylinder diesel. They also had FMC President for some years. Sometime shortly after nationalisation, Wanderer came into the ownership of BW (D&IWE) , possibly taken in lieu of unpaid tolls by G & M. The boat was taken to the Gorton,Manchester dock , under her own power, so apparently not in bad condition being rather less than 15 years old and never heard of again. So, does anyone have any idea what became of her? Cut up & burnt or transformed with another identity to be another maintenance boat in the North Western fleet?

 

I had some communication with Ian Riley during 2007. He wrote in one of his letters that SCOTIA was restorable and in the care of Roger Fuller, Stone after some assurance that it would be looked after, although it was derelict. I understand that SCOTIA may have been built out of a Meakin's horse boat and was converted to a motor maintenance boat by the L.N.E.R. in about 1925, apparently powered by an 18.5 hp National ! I also understand that a photograph at the National Waterways Museum, Gloucester shows SCOTIA's fleet number as "7".

 

I have an interest in WANDERER. Can I ask where your information has come from regarding its passing to 'British Waterways' and going north ? Interestingly there are a few photographs knocking about of PRESIDENT on the dock at Gorton being prepared as a maintenance boat.

[Laurence Hogg]

I had some communication with Ian Riley during 2007. He wrote in one of his letters that SCOTIA was restorable and in the care of Roger Fuller, Stone after some assurance that it would be looked after, although it was derelict. I understand that SCOTIA may have been built out of a Meakin's horse boat and was converted to a motor maintenance boat by the L.N.E.R. in about 1925, apparently powered by an 18.5 hp National ! I also understand that a photograph at the National Waterways Museum, Gloucester shows SCOTIA's fleet number as "7".

 

I have an interest in WANDERER. Can I ask where your information has come from regarding its passing to 'British Waterways' and going north ? Interestingly there are a few photographs knocking about of PRESIDENT on the dock at Gorton being prepared as a maintenance boat.

 

I remeber John Jinks who was with me that day commenting on the fine shape of "Scotia" Also the deep draft and huge engine bearers. "Scotia" is not recorded as being converted in the Anderton company dock records, the unusual swans neck is unique too. I have posted a picture of Scotia and Wanderer (motor joey) in the boats section of gallery

 

URL=http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?autocom=gallery&req=si&img=3593][/url]

 

[Laurence Hogg]

Thought I better post this too, it is "Scotia's" Swans neck - not common design, only other I have seen was on a Royalty class motor.

 

[gazza]

crickey! scotia is indeed a pretty looking boat. now that would be a replica worth doing.

[pete harrison]

I remeber John Jinks who was with me that day commenting on the fine shape of "Scotia" Also the deep draft and huge engine bearers. "Scotia" is not recorded as being converted in the Anderton company dock records, the unusual swans neck is unique too. I have posted a picture of Scotia and Wanderer (motor joey) in the boats section of gallery

 

 

And SCOTIA has the fleet number A.1. by the look of this, rather than "6" or "7" as mentioned previously !

[Pluto]

And SCOTIA has the fleet number A.1. by the look of this, rather than "6" or "7" as mentioned previously !

Have a look at this link http://www.pittdixon.go-plus.net/scotia/scotia.htm for Scotia. It's still nothing like as shapely as the ICI Weaver Packet of the same name!

[billh]

And SCOTIA has the fleet number A.1. by the look of this, rather than "6" or "7" as mentioned previously !

There is a picture here: http://www.brocross.com/canal/boats.htm#

of Scotia with a different paint scheme at Bollington, looks like fleet number 6 on the engine room.

I can't think what the "A1" number refers to, perhaps there was some short-lived numbering scheme ?

I have seen this picture before , it's at Fairfield Top Lock on the Ashton Canal and the photographer must be on a boat at the start of the Hollinwood Branch ( unless he's up to his neck in the middle of the cut!). You can just make out the painting on the front of the engine room

( Flying Scotsman?) and a rather unusual painting on the engine room side behind the open door. The chap in the middle of the picture with the waistcoat and watch chain is Inspector Lucas , the boss of the LNER's canal department and answerable to the District Engineer at Guide Bridge Station. The men in the picture all look very proud don't they? Rightly so, Scotia was indeed a lovely boat.

Notice that the right hand lock is disused (no gates) , I don't know when this became so.

Bill

[billh]

I had some communication with Ian Riley during 2007. He wrote in one of his letters that SCOTIA was restorable and in the care of Roger Fuller, Stone after some assurance that it would be looked after, although it was derelict. I understand that SCOTIA may have been built out of a Meakin's horse boat and was converted to a motor maintenance boat by the L.N.E.R. in about 1925, apparently powered by an 18.5 hp National ! I also understand that a photograph at the National Waterways Museum, Gloucester shows SCOTIA's fleet number as "7".

 

I have an interest in WANDERER. Can I ask where your information has come from regarding its passing to 'British Waterways' and going north ? Interestingly there are a few photographs knocking about of PRESIDENT on the dock at Gorton being prepared as a maintenance boat.

I have a log book that belonged to a local (Ashton Canal) boatman who worked for LNER & BW, there is a reference in it to "Wanderer, fitted with National engine , serial number XXXXX" ( which is the right sort of number for a National 2cyl. diesel). Also I got a photo sent from Australia (long story) which shows Wanderer at Fairfield Locks , the name George & Matthews and Wolves reg number are visible.President also came to Gorton from George & Matthews apparently under the 1940's equivalent of a section 8 notice!

What is your interest in Wanderer?

Bill

[Paul H]

I have a log book that belonged to a local (Ashton Canal) boatman who worked for LNER & BW, there is a reference in it to "Wanderer, fitted with National engine , serial number XXXXX" ( which is the right sort of number for a National 2cyl. diesel). Also I got a photo sent from Australia (long story) which shows Wanderer at Fairfield Locks , the name George & Matthews and Wolves reg number are visible.President also came to Gorton from George & Matthews apparently under the 1940's equivalent of a section 8 notice!

What is your interest in Wanderer?

Bill

 

I think the suggestion that President (and perhaps Wanderer) were siezed by DIWE from George and Matthews in lieu of tolls was invented to try and explain an unlikely acquisition of such an old boat.

 

In fact DIWE were on a boat buying spree at the time for their north west maintenance fleet and also acquired craft from Cowburn and Cowper and L B Faulkners of Leighton Buzzard. Presumably their ex-railway co maintenance boats were all worn out and they took what they could get.

 

Paul H

[andywatson]

crickey! scotia is indeed a pretty looking boat. now that would be a replica worth doing.

 

I agree. Very nice.

 

It looks to my inexpert eye a lot like a josher.

Can you tell us more about the design features Laurence?

 

Looking at Colours of the Cut pages 124-5 I'd guess the cabin would be dark green with a white border and no coachline although the picure of Joan on page 124 shows in monochrome something darker.

[Laurence Hogg]

I agree. Very nice.

 

It looks to my inexpert eye a lot like a josher.

Can you tell us more about the design features Laurence?

 

Looking at Colours of the Cut pages 124-5 I'd guess the cabin would be dark green with a white border and no coachline although the picure of Joan on page 124 shows in monochrome something darker.

 

Hi,

John Jinks and myself were amazed at the shape, there was hardly a straight plank "so as to speak", rounded sides. triple keelson, quite shallow counter and the unusual tiller. The fore end appears to have had extra guards fitted and the whole boat was over sheathed with vertical iron. the condition of the hull (then) was good, never seen another quite like it apart from Joel.