Tiller Shape

[system 4-50]

I've seen it said that the standard Z shape makes it easier to steer in some way. Looking at it, I can't see how it is any better than the inverted L of a conventional boat tiller. Is there some physics that shows there is a benefit to this shape?

 

I ask because I begrudge the few inboard inches the bottom knee of the Z takes up. I'd like to use it for another purpose. I've looked at many pictures and they're all Zs. I can't look at the gallery because I get a message "you have used up your bandwidth". What is that all about?

 

I agree in advance that the Zs are sexier, - but I need the space...

[casper ghost]

I've seen it said that the standard Z shape makes it easier to steer in some way. Looking at it, I can't see how it is any better than the inverted L of a conventional boat tiller. Is there some physics that shows there is a benefit to this shape?

 

I ask because I begrudge the few inboard inches the bottom knee of the Z takes up. I'd like to use it for another purpose. I've looked at many pictures and they're all Zs. I can't look at the gallery because I get a message "you have used up your bandwidth". What is that all about?

 

I agree in advance that the Zs are sexier, - but I need the space...

 

Don't think the Z gives any extra leaverage. Couldn't you use inverted L but lean it back a bit like a number 7 to look better..

Edited October 2, 2009 by casper ghost

[DHutch]

Just effect i think really.

- As said, a seven shape would work just as well. History behind it., i dont know?

[springy]

The leverage is simply based on the distance between the handle of the tiller bar and the

axis of the rudder post - a 'Z' with identical short top & bottom bars is going to be the

same as a 'Z' with identical long top and bottom bars - they cancel each other out. I

have seen some boats with a reversed 'C', which would seem to fit your needs, but

I cant remember where at the moment. The potential problem with an inverted 'L'

is the attachment point for the top of the rudder axis - this has to carry quite large

forces and it is easier to get a strong enough weld onto the side of a substantial boss

which is then attached to the top of the rudder axis - often with a square fitting.

 

cheers

 

springy

[andywatson]

I've seen it said that the standard Z shape makes it easier to steer in some way. Looking at it, I can't see how it is any better than the inverted L of a conventional boat tiller. Is there some physics that shows there is a benefit to this shape?

 

I ask because I begrudge the few inboard inches the bottom knee of the Z takes up. I'd like to use it for another purpose. I've looked at many pictures and they're all Zs. I can't look at the gallery because I get a message "you have used up your bandwidth". What is that all about?

 

I agree in advance that the Zs are sexier, - but I need the space...

 

There is a replica of a Blisworth tunnel steam tug which has a reversed C tiller.

It looks good on that boat.

[denboy]

ice breakers Pirate, pilot and spider all have reverse C shaped tillers

[casper ghost]

ice breakers Pirate, pilot and spider all have reverse C shaped tillers

Why are peeps saying "reverse" C? Surley from one side it's just a C.

[denboy]

Why are peeps saying "reverse" C? Surley from one side it's just a C.

cos theres no reverse C on the keyboard suppose you could call it a D without the down bit in it

[Guest]

You could just type a bracket ) or ( if standing at the other side

[grunders]

A picture of the tiller on Spider

 

 

I apologise for the quality of the picture.

 

Ben

[casper ghost]

You could just type a bracket ) or ( if standing at the other side

 

That's what I mean, a reverse C is surley just a C from the other side of the boat so why say reverse C?

[springy]

'Cos from that side of the boat we'd have to talk about a reverse 'Z'

 

springy

 

edit - tho I suppose it might be a flattened 'S'

Edited October 2, 2009 by springy

[casper ghost]

So what digit can we use to describe my bodged tiller

 

[soldthehouse]

I've seen it said that the standard Z shape makes it easier to steer in some way. Looking at it, I can't see how it is any better than the inverted L of a conventional boat tiller. Is there some physics that shows there is a benefit to this shape?

 

I ask because I begrudge the few inboard inches the bottom knee of the Z takes up. I'd like to use it for another purpose. I've looked at many pictures and they're all Zs. I can't look at the gallery because I get a message "you have used up your bandwidth". What is that all about?

 

I agree in advance that the Zs are sexier, - but I need the space...

Any distance that the top horizontal tiller handle travels over the tiller bearing before returning diagonally down towards the normally smaller offset bend at the bottom nearest the tiller bearing is usually greater than the distance between the outermost part of the lower offset bend and the tiller bearing therefore giving an increase in leverage although it is normally a modest difference..... phew

 

So what digit can we use to describe my bodged tiller

 

My kind of tiller, but not as nice as that splendid bow on the new boat your building

[casper ghost]

Any distance that the top horizontal tiller handle travels over the tiller bearing before returning diagonally down towards the normally smaller offset bend at the bottom nearest the tiller bearing is usually greater than the distance between the outermost part of the lower offset bend and the tiller bearing therefore giving an increase in leverage although it is normally a modest difference..... phew

 

I am pretty sure that your long explanation is wrong. A Z gains no leverage. The only thing that adds leverage is the distance from the tiller end to the bearing.

[soldthehouse]

I am pretty sure that your long explanation is wrong. A Z gains no leverage. The only thing that adds leverage is the distance from the tiller end to the bearing.

Didnt think i,d get that one past you ia ashamed for trying it was purely mischief

[springy]

There is no leverage advantage in either a Z or a C if the top and bottom horizontal

sections are the same length - they cancel each other, however in practice the top

is often slightly longer than the bottom so there is a slight mechanical advantage

this however is minimal compared to the increased leverage gained by adding 2' - 3'

of brass tubing with a wooden handle.

 

springy

[ThePiglet]

I've had a few comments about my (temporary) tiller

Edited October 2, 2009 by ThePiglet

[soldthehouse]

There is no leverage advantage in either a Z or a C if the top and bottom horizontal

sections are the same length - they cancel each other, however in practice the top

is often slightly longer than the bottom so there is a slight mechanical advantage

this however is minimal compared to the increased leverage gained by adding 2' - 3'

of brass tubing with a wooden handle.

 

springy

thats what i said

[casper ghost]

The top horizontal of the Z could stick out the back by 10 feet it still wouldn't add any leverage. The only leverage is gained from how far forward the handle is from the bearing..

 

thats what i said

 

And it was still wrong then

 

I've had a few comments about my (temporary) tiller

 

Haven't been to the blacksmith yet then..

[soldthehouse]

The top horizontal of the Z could stick out the back by 10 feet it still wouldn't add any leverage. The only leverage is gained from how far forward the handle is from the bearing..

 

 

 

And it was still wrong then

correct as in if you filled in the triangle with a piece of sheet steel it would then be one lump and would take your eye off the imaginary leverage does that make sense probably not the best explanation

Edited October 2, 2009 by soldthehouse

[luctor et emergo]

If space is the problem, why not fit a wheel?

 

 

 

 

*** dons tin hat and starts digging...***

 

[Hairy-Neil]

I am pretty sure that your long explanation is wrong. A Z gains no leverage. The only thing that adds leverage is the distance from the tiller end to the bearing.

 

That may be so on a modern clonecraft. However, the 'real thing', the genuine old working boats had the rudder stock inclined to the rear at the top by several inches. By taking the top arm of the Z to the point where it intersects the line of the rudder stock gives the best mechanical advantage.

[Guest User]

Irrespective of leverage, isn't it the case that the Z shape counterbalances its own weight to some extent, putting less stress on the bottom weld and on the stock bearing ? whereas with an L or C shape virtually all the weight is effectively hanging off the side of the stock boss ?

[nb Innisfree]

If space is the problem, why not fit a wheel?

 

 

 

 

*** dons tin hat and starts digging...***

 

 

Yes we have that, well a crank rather than a wheel, magic.

 

Anymore 'wheelers' out there?