Dangly fenders - poll

[churchward]

Oh yes, my Liverpool Bucket looks just like Donald Campbell's K7 when I lift my fenders...

 

Sarcy!

 

Not quite what I meant no narrowboat is going to end up looking as elegant as say an old wooden Thames launch just because the fenders are removed but they do look better than when they are fitted and dragging through the water.

[NB Willawaw]

I'm not quite sure what the poll achieves.

Even if 90% of boaters believe that the only way to boat on canals is without fenders, then what does that prove ?

 

There are no regulations or byelaws that say people shall not deploy fenders when underway (Carl, is that right ?)

and if people want to keep their fenders down when underway, in locks, going through bridge holes, etc, then surely this is their right.

 

If some of you don't wish to enter locks with other boats who have their fenders down, then that is your right, as long as you don't expect to go through first

if you arrived last.

 

Lastly, the members of a canal forum do not fairly represent the number of boaters on British canals.

 

In statistical terms, it is a particular sector.

 

Although it still doesn't prove anything, a better way might be looking at the boats around you on the cut, to see what they do in practice.

[Athy]

Sarcy!

 

Not quite what I meant no narrowboat is going to end up looking as elegant as say an old wooden Thames launch just because the fenders are removed but they do look better than when they are fitted and dragging through the water.

 

Ours are fitted so that they do not drag through the water - they are four or five inches above water level. I can see no point in raising them when cruising.

[carlt]

There are no regulations or byelaws that say people shall not deploy fenders when underway (Carl, is that right ?)

I don't know, you'll have to ask Mr Mayall.

[churchward]

Ours are fitted so that they do not drag through the water - they are four or five inches above water level. I can see no point in raising them when cruising.

That's your choice of course but I shan't be sharing a lock with you if I think there is a chance of being caught up on them. Also you maybe at risk of getting caught up in a narrow lock. It has happened to other boats.

[David Schweizer]

What is the point of those silly pipe fenders whilst cruising? they only "protect" the rubbing strakes from contact with the lock sides, or another boat. Forgive me for being a bit dim, but isn't that what rubbing strakes are for (the hint is in the name rubbing strake).

 

From my observation all the stupid things seem to manage to do is scribe a muddy arc fron water level to gunwale, wearing away the blacking from the hull sides. Or is it just Me??

Edited September 22, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Athy]

That's your choice of course but I shan't be sharing a lock with you if I think there is a chance of being caught up on them. Also you maybe at risk of getting caught up in a narrow lock. It has happened to other boats.

Perceptive as ever, Carl: I had thought to add "except when sharing a broad lock" but, as Trojan rarely ventures into broad lock territory, I omitted to.

[churchward]

I'm not quite sure what the poll achieves.

Even if 90% of boaters believe that the only way to boat on canals is without fenders, then what does that prove ?

 

There are no regulations or byelaws that say people shall not deploy fenders when underway (Carl, is that right ?)

and if people want to keep their fenders down when underway, in locks, going through bridge holes, etc, then surely this is their right.

 

If some of you don't wish to enter locks with other boats who have their fenders down, then that is your right, as long as you don't expect to go through first

if you arrived last.

 

Lastly, the members of a canal forum do not fairly represent the number of boaters on British canals.

 

In statistical terms, it is a particular sector.

 

Although it still doesn't prove anything, a better way might be looking at the boats around you on the cut, to see what they do in practice.

People can indeed make up their own mind. But also anybody can express an opinion there doesn't need to be a regulation first. The nature of debate is that you have varied opinions aired and people can judge what suits them or if a particular argument is valid or persuasive.

 

I doubt any poll on the forum is an scientific representation of the boating population it is just the forum casting an opinion. As others have said before the forum is a dead duck if opinions are banned.

 

Anyway, to play devils advocate who are you to say there shouldn't be a poll? is there a regulation that says you can't have a poll about such matters?

[mayalld]

I don't know, you'll have to ask Mr Mayall.

 

There is no direct prohibition on the use of fenders in a lock.

 

However, bye-law 13 applies.

 

There is also no bye-law requiring you to share a lock.

 

So, if we are talking about a broad lock;

• If I arrive second, and there is a boat in the lock who declines to lift his fenders, I can choose to wait until he has passed through.
  
• If I am in the lock, and a boat arrives who declines to lift his fenders, I can refuse to allow him to pass through with me.
  

[NB Willawaw]

Nothing wrong with a healthy debate, but this one has all the hallmarks of, I'm right and I intend to prove it.

 

QUOTE

OK, let's thrash this one out.

 

 

Do you cruise with side fenders down?

 

Yes, and I'm proud of it

 

Sometimes, but I'm a bit embarrassed about it

 

Certainly not!

UNQUOTE

 

Poll away...

Edited September 22, 2009 by NB Willawaw

[carlt]

Perceptive as ever, Carl:

Whilst not disagreeing with your comment, about me, I cannot take credit for churchward's post.

[NB Willawaw]

Sounds fair to me.

 

What about if one boat is wider than anticipated or has a protruding bottomplate ?

 

There is no direct prohibition on the use of fenders in a lock.

 

However, bye-law 13 applies.

 

There is also no bye-law requiring you to share a lock.

 

So, if we are talking about a broad lock;

• If I arrive second, and there is a boat in the lock who declines to lift his fenders, I can choose to wait until he has passed through.
  
• If I am in the lock, and a boat arrives who declines to lift his fenders, I can refuse to allow him to pass through with me.
  

[Chertsey]

I'm not quite sure what the poll achieves.

Even if 90% of boaters believe that the only way to boat on canals is without fenders, then what does that prove ?

 

There are no regulations or byelaws that say people shall not deploy fenders when underway (Carl, is that right ?)

and if people want to keep their fenders down when underway, in locks, going through bridge holes, etc, then surely this is their right.

 

If some of you don't wish to enter locks with other boats who have their fenders down, then that is your right, as long as you don't expect to go through first

if you arrived last.

 

Lastly, the members of a canal forum do not fairly represent the number of boaters on British canals.

 

In statistical terms, it is a particular sector.

 

Although it still doesn't prove anything, a better way might be looking at the boats around you on the cut, to see what they do in practice.

It's not meant to achieve anything, just be a snapshot of opinion of people on this forum and an opportunity to express opinions. I was interested to see that more people than I expected held the same view as me. I already do look around and see what people do in practice and I see a great many people with a great many dangly fenders. Still doesn't mean it's right.

 

I really am interested to know though, those who do leave them down - on a narrowboat - why? Is it because it's too much effort to take them off and put them on again, or is it because you believe they provide some much-needed protection to your boat, or for some other reason?

 

PS I thought Fuzzyduck's reason was the best so far.

Edited September 22, 2009 by WarriorWoman

[churchward]

Nothing wrong with a healthy debate, but this one has all the hallmarks of, I'm right and I intend to prove it.

 

QUOTE

OK, let's thrash this one out.

 

 

Do you cruise with side fenders down?

 

Yes, and I'm proud of it

 

Sometimes, but I'm a bit embarrassed about it

 

Certainly not!

UNQUOTE

 

Poll away...

I think that is just the way you are choosing to read it. After all you could just view the voting choices as

 

1. YES

2. SOMETIMES

3. NO

[NB Willawaw]

Yes you could if that is what it said.

[Chertsey]

Yes you could if that is what it said.

You're taking it terribly seriously. I'm a social scientist (for my sins). I know it has no validity whatsoever as a means of gathering data. It's fun. You should try it sometime.

[casper ghost]

I think that is just the way you are choosing to read it. After all you could just view the voting choices as

 

1. YES

2. SOMETIMES

3. NO

 

I agree that the initial question makes you feel that you will be wrong if you say YES. So it could be said that there is a bias.

Mind I don't cruise with fenders down.

[Athy]

I think that is just the way you are choosing to read it. After all you could just view the voting choices as

 

1. YES

2. SOMETIMES

3. NO

 

4. Side what?

[churchward]

Yes you could if that is what it said.

I just can't see what the problem is with the poll or an opinion one way or the other in terms of having fenders fitted whilst going along. As long as it is just ones own choice and it doesn't effect someone else then anyone can do what they like in this context.

 

That however doesn't exclude me being of the opinion that it is a dubious practice (fenders down underway) on safety grounds or at least serves no purpose and also that I think a narrowboat looks better without them.

[billS]

I have done both - cruised with and without, with no feeling of superiority - or shame. I prefer to cruise without but I have found that sharing a broad lock with a boat which has its rubbing strip at a different level than mine damages my blacking even more that the muddy fenders rubbing against it.

Edited September 22, 2009 by billS

[Naughty Cal]

I have done both - cruised with and without, with no feeling of superiority - or shame. I prefer to cruise without but I have found that sharing a broad lock with a boat which has its rubbing strip at a different level than mine damages my blacking even more that the muddy fenders rubbing against it.

 

You could always wash the fenders to stop them being muddy

[NB Willawaw]

Not at all.

 

I couldn't give a toss.

 

As a social scientist, I'm sure that you appreciate that man seeks freedom.

 

Freedom to do what he or she wants.

 

The attraction of the canals is that within limits, one can achieve a level of freedom.

 

Unfortunately, there appears to be a growing number of boaters who want others to conform to

what they perceive as the right way of boating.

 

Are you really interested in why people have fenders down or is it more a case of questioning the reasoning so it can be

challenged and such un-boaty behaviour corrected.

 

Why can't you just accept that underway, some boaters don't use fenders and some do.

[Chertsey]

Not at all.

 

I couldn't give a toss.

 

As a social scientist, I'm sure that you appreciate that man seeks freedom.

 

Freedom to do what he or she wants.

 

The attraction of the canals is that within limits, one can achieve a level of freedom.

 

Unfortunately, there appears to be a growing number of boaters who want others to conform to

what they perceive as the right way of boating.

 

Are you really interested in why people have fenders down or is it more a case of questioning the reasoning so it can be

challenged and such un-boaty behaviour corrected.

 

Why can't you just accept that underway, some boaters don't use fenders and some do.

Very seriously indeed.

 

Of course I will question. That is what conversation is about. I yield to no one in my worship of John Stuart Mill and my belief in the individual's right to the widest possible sphere of personal liberty, but being able to do what you like includes being able to ask questions.

 

There is also the issue that dangling fenders may cause harm to others, so are not just a matter of individual choice.

Edited September 22, 2009 by WarriorWoman

[Naughty Cal]

It's fun. You should try it sometime.

 

Always

[NB Willawaw]

Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?