Trad or Semi-Trad?

[Chertsey]

To flesh out my earlier sweeping generalisation; If you spend a lot of time on your boat traveling with other people then a cruiser or semi-trad is perfect. You have room for four or more people on the back. Conversely, if you rarely travel, or travel alone then a Trad is perfect.

A cruiser would be perfect; a semi-trad would be a bit cramped with four, wouldn't it? On a cruiser you can sit down, and look around, but on a semi-trad you'd have to be standing to comfortably see over the roof line.

[churchward]

I know it's moving away from the OP which was one simple question, but while I can see how trad and cruiser stern set-ups cater for different needs/preferences, I cannot for the life of me see any advantage in the 'halfway house' which is the semi-trad. It's neither one thing nor t'other and has many of the disadvantages of both. Just what is the attraction, please?

Many would see it the other way that a semi trad has the advantages of both ie some protection from the elements (sideways) but a more sociable space than a trad. I think though that for many the Semi has a more sleek profile than the cruiser deck so looks better.

 

I would rather have a trad back myself and have the engine enclosed and see the semi as a compromise with as you say many of the disadvantages of the other styles. If I needed more space at the back for other people or other reasons then I would go for a cruiser.

Edited September 14, 2009 by churchward

[mrsmelly]

Sweeping generalisation - Trads are for liveaboards, Semis and Cruisers are for part time boaters!

 

Naughty............

[WJM]

I am a semi-trad fan! A semi-trad gives you most of the space of a cruiser, but some of the weather protection of a Trad. It depends what you do with your boat. If I lived aboard, I would want every foot of internal space, so I would choose Trad. But my main use is travelling, and often with four people on board. All four of us can sit comfortably on the back. So given that a Trad is no use to me, then I would choose the Semi-Trad over a cruiser because they look more like a narrowboat.

 

I have a tarpaulin clip on cover for the semi-trad area that keeps it dry and clean when I am not using the boat. Pram hoods are very practical, I totally agree, but my god, the look silly!

[Chagall]

I am a semi-trad fan! A semi-trad gives you most of the space of a cruiser, but some of the weather protection of a Trad. It depends what you do with your boat. If I lived aboard, I would want every foot of internal space, so I would choose Trad. But my main use is travelling, and often with four people on board. All four of us can sit comfortably on the back. So given that a Trad is no use to me, then I would choose the Semi-Trad over a cruiser because they look more like a narrowboat.

 

I have a tarpaulin clip on cover for the semi-trad area that keeps it dry and clean when I am not using the boat. Pram hoods are very practical, I totally agree, but my god, the look silly!

 

thanks, can I bring back the question of an extra wide hatch on a trad? I know that 'Strads' replied earlier and said that "In such boats having "2" people in the hatch compromises your ability to reach/mange the controls easily... so not the place to teach a novice...best let them "have ago by standing in the right place and you be on hand to advise/support as required from one side.."

 

but I was wondering if the extra wide hatch maybe gave some extra room for at least one companion to comfortably stand with the steerer instead of out on the back? not necessarily to teach them to steer but just to share the space instead of having them sit on the roof?

 

Im pretty much decided on a trad now but I like the idea of a wider hatch and the longer floor deck going over the engine with enough room to stand and move about on......so I just need to decide about the extra wide hatch?

[david and julie]

Surely a well deck at the front is better for kids 'n' dogs?

Not when they're hanging over the side scooping up water like the young lad I saw last week. The parents were at the rear (on a cruiser) but were that busy supping wine and talking they were totally oblivious to the danger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im pretty much decided on a trad now but I like the idea of a wider hatch and the longer floor deck going over the engine with enough room to stand and move about on......so I just need to decide about the extra wide hatch?

Perhaps an alternative(if its a new build) would be slightly longer hatch so that one person can stand in front of the other?

[DavidUK]

Thanks for all the replies folks.

 

A boatbuilder at the recent IWA festival informed me that there was no more internal room between a trad and a semi due to the 'extra space' being taken up by the engine.From the replies it would seem that he is incorrect and there indeed IS more inside a trad

[Chagall]

Perhaps an alternative(if its a new build) would be slightly longer hatch so that one person can stand in front of the other?

 

Oh heck!...another alternative!...never thought of that option, so I guess there is room to go long instead of wide? ( tis beginning to sound like baseball!)

[churchward]

thanks, can I bring back the question of an extra wide hatch on a trad? I know that 'Strads' replied earlier and said that "In such boats having "2" people in the hatch compromises your ability to reach/mange the controls easily... so not the place to teach a novice...best let them "have ago by standing in the right place and you be on hand to advise/support as required from one side.."

 

but I was wondering if the extra wide hatch maybe gave some extra room for at least one companion to comfortably stand with the steerer instead of out on the back? not necessarily to teach them to steer but just to share the space instead of having them sit on the roof?

 

Im pretty much decided on a trad now but I like the idea of a wider hatch and the longer floor deck going over the engine with enough room to stand and move about on......so I just need to decide about the extra wide hatch?

If you are going to have a modern engine and Morse control setup in a Trad back design then a wider hatch makes some sense. A trad speedwheel and gear change will make the other person standing there get in the way of the controls wide hatch or not. We have a wider hatch than an original working boat would have done both my wife and I can stand there without a problem. It is still a bit cozy but that is rather nice on a cold day!

[Chagall]

If you are going to have a modern engine and Morse control setup in a Trad back design then a wider hatch makes some sense. A trad speedwheel and gear change will make the other person standing there get in the way of the controls wide hatch or not. We have a wider hatch than an original working boat would have done both my wife and I can stand there without a problem. It is still a bit cozy but that is rather nice on a cold day!

 

Excellent!...cosy is fine, its only going to be on occasions, I just don't like the idea of visitors standing behind the tiller or way down at the bow when its me and the canal they have come to visit. Yes semi trad sounds better still for guests but I want the more interior space and protection from the weather and lock ingress.

Thanks.

[Chertsey]

thanks, can I bring back the question of an extra wide hatch on a trad? I know that 'Strads' replied earlier and said that "In such boats having "2" people in the hatch compromises your ability to reach/mange the controls easily... so not the place to teach a novice...best let them "have ago by standing in the right place and you be on hand to advise/support as required from one side.."

 

but I was wondering if the extra wide hatch maybe gave some extra room for at least one companion to comfortably stand with the steerer instead of out on the back? not necessarily to teach them to steer but just to share the space instead of having them sit on the roof?

 

Im pretty much decided on a trad now but I like the idea of a wider hatch and the longer floor deck going over the engine with enough room to stand and move about on......so I just need to decide about the extra wide hatch?

The question is, what would they stand on. Unless you extend the step into the cabin too, and then you are on the way to a semi trad. Best thing I find is to stand on the gunnel, out of the way of the steerer. Although admittedly you have to look lively at narrow bridges.

 

As for width, how much wider can you go? If you have a nicely tapering cabin shape, there isn't much space either side of the hatch right at the back to cut into. And where would you put your chimney and can?

 

(ducks)

[Chagall]

The question is, what would they stand on. Unless you extend the step into the cabin too, and then you are on the way to a semi trad. Best thing I find is to stand on the gunnel, out of the way of the steerer. Although admittedly you have to look lively at narrow bridges.

 

As for width, how much wider can you go? If you have a nicely tapering cabin shape, there isn't much space either side of the hatch right at the back to cut into. And where would you put your chimney and can?

 

(ducks)

 

ducks?...they can stay on the blimming water .....no room for them too!

[nb Innisfree]

To make a pramhood look right it needs to be the right shape (wheelhouse look with neg rake wind screen) and a low profile which needs a dropped deck, which usually means a cruiser stern but with semi trad wings. I suppose a dropped deck forward of rear doors on a semi trad would be ok.

[Naughty Cal]

ducks?...they can stay on the blimming water .....no room for them too!

 

Try telling that to our resident ducks!

[casper ghost]

I have a trad style. The engine being in a 5 foot engine room at the back which has a bulk head so there is no access to the cabin from the back. This works for me I just go in either the side door or the front door to get inside. It also means the bedroom at the back is full width so if you want you can have a full width bed or normal double with wardrobe etc. Not so handy with kids as they can't walk to the back to see you, or a young lady to bring tea..

[Nine of Hearts]

Some crusiers (like mine) have semi-trad like seats ...

 

A post which infers that semi-trads have seats and cruisers normally don't, so...

 

On a cruiser you can sit down

 

On what?

 

...on a semi-trad you'd have to be standing to comfortably see over the roof line.

 

Er, no, there's seats you can sit on. And, unless you're shorter than my 7 year old daughter, you will be able to see out, the roof line is no higher than on a cruiser. We do have rear decks, we're not down in the engine hole. Have you ever actually seen a semi?

 

I'm not getting defensive about the design of anyone's boat, get what you like, but let's not start inventing problems, eh?

[nb Innisfree]

A post which infers that semi-trads have seats and cruisers normally don't, so...

 

 

 

On what?

 

 

 

Er, no, there's seats you can sit on. And, unless you're shorter than my 7 year old daughter, you will be able to see out, the roof line is no higher than on a cruiser. We do have rear decks, we're not down in the engine hole. Have you ever actually seen a semi?

 

I'm not getting defensive about the design of anyone's boat, get what you like, but let's not start inventing problems, eh?

 

Think he may be confusing semi trad with lower deck cruiser, then being lower you can't see over roof as well

[Chertsey]

A post which infers that semi-trads have seats and cruisers normally don't, so...

 

 

 

On what?

 

 

 

Er, no, there's seats you can sit on. And, unless you're shorter than my 7 year old daughter, you will be able to see out, the roof line is no higher than on a cruiser. We do have rear decks, we're not down in the engine hole. Have you ever actually seen a semi?

 

I'm not getting defensive about the design of anyone's boat, get what you like, but let's not start inventing problems, eh?

Course I've been on a semi trad. One of my best friends has one . I wouldn't have found it comfortable sitting on the seats looking over the side. Ended up as I suspect people often do, with feet on the seats and sitting on the top of the 'wall'. The roof line may be no higher than a cruiser, but it extends further back. Surely on any style of boat, to see over the roofline, from the level of the deck, you would have to be standing? Unless you were either very tall, or had high seats.

 

Of course people must have whatever they like, but I am still struggling to see the attraction.

 

Cruisers often have bench seats

[nb Innisfree]

Course I've been on a semi trad. One of my best friends has one . I wouldn't have found it comfortable sitting on the seats looking over the side. Ended up as I suspect people often do, with feet on the seats and sitting on the top of the 'wall'. The roof line may be no higher than a cruiser, but it extends further back. Surely on any style of boat, to see over the roofline, from the level of the deck, you would have to be standing? Unless you were either very tall, or had high seats.

 

Of course people must have whatever they like, but I am still struggling to see the attraction.

 

Cruisers often have bench seats

 

 

Roofline finishes at the same point on cruisers and semi trads, did you mean it extends further back on a trad?

[Chertsey]

Roofline finishes at the same point on cruisers and semi trads, did you mean it extends further back on a trad?

I mean the sides of the rear enclosure are the same height as the roof on a semi trad, so I would have thought a seated person would have trouble seeing over them. Admittedly it depends on the seats, though.

[Nine of Hearts]

I mean the sides of the rear enclosure are the same height as the roof on a semi trad, so I would have thought a seated person would have trouble seeing over them. Admittedly it depends on the seats, though.

 

Yep, if they're flush with the deck you'd have a problem. But then would they be seats? Wouldbn't that just be "a cushion". Or, if your seats are at a normal height and your eyes are in the small of your back, you might have difficulty then, too. However, in the rare circumstances where one is not a Victorian circus freak, and has a boat built by someone who was not as mad as a box of frogs, then you should have no difficulty at all.

[Naughty Cal]

Yep, if they're flush with the deck you'd have a problem. But then would they be seats? Wouldbn't that just be "a cushion". Or, if your seats are at a normal height and your eyes are in the small of your back, you might have difficulty then, too. However, in the rare circumstances where one is not a Victorian circus freak, and has a boat built by someone who was not as mad as a box of frogs, then you should have no difficulty at all.

 

Interesting mental image you have just given me there

[casper ghost]

Not really any help to the discussion, but I sit on the roof to steer my trad.. until I get uncomfortable then I stand for a while.

[Chertsey]

Yep, if they're flush with the deck you'd have a problem. But then would they be seats? Wouldbn't that just be "a cushion". Or, if your seats are at a normal height and your eyes are in the small of your back, you might have difficulty then, too. However, in the rare circumstances where one is not a Victorian circus freak, and has a boat built by someone who was not as mad as a box of frogs, then you should have no difficulty at all.

Admittedly I am quite short, although I hope not quite in the Victorian circus freak category, and I don't believe Stoke on Trent boats (for I believe it was them) are in the box of frogs league, but sitting on the bench and looking across I could see more of the inside than the outside. It definitely felt like looking over rather than looking around. Also being sat on a bench facing inwards made me feel like I was on a trip boat. If it was like that for me, then it might be for others, while different others might experience it more positively.

[Chagall]

Not really any help to the discussion, but I sit on the roof to steer my trad.. until I get uncomfortable then I stand for a while.

 

so with an extra wide hatch there wouldn't be much roof left to sit on? ......its the standing room Im wondering about, mainly for a very occasional companion to share the space.