Hire Companies Responsibility

[MoominPapa]

Que the horror stories about speeding red & green boats.........

 

As an aside, if any of ours are misbehaving (and I'm there will be some), we DO want to know - that's our reputation they're ruining, and I can do that on my own.

All the Rose narrowboats we saw during our recent trip were going sufficiently slowly, and one we came upon south of Buckby was going so slowly that they were frequently losing control to the wind. They did respond well to requests to be overtaken.

 

As previous hirers of Rose narrowboats, I'd point out that we've found the handover staff very happy to accept that we're telling the truth when we say "we've been doing this for years and we know how to work a lock". We always still got the part of the briefing which dealt with the boat systems, which is necessary for everyone.

 

MP.

[aquapykes]

It seems to me that with some people it doesn't matter how much you explain things they either don't listen or seem to have forgotten it all by the time they drive of into the distance!

At the moment I am helping a friend out by doing the 'handovers' on their day boat. I have lived aboard narrow boats and wide beams for over 6 years, have experience both driving breasting up narrow boats and towing on a long line/cross straps. I also drive the widebeam and have my helmsman certificate and am required to do basic engine checks daily. I talk my clients through all the aspects of the boat and pay partricular notice to the 'safety' aspects. I also give them examples of how we get to know if they misbehave and that their deposit is at stake. But this does not stop them and several times they have come passed our boat which is moored up and their faces are a picture when I stand on the front deck and ask if I am going shopping with their deposit, as they are sat on the roof/going too fast /sat on the front!

They do sign to say they have understood and agree to the all of the terms and conditions, so apart from from following them all day, I'm not sure how to solve this!

[Rose Narrowboats]

We're quite lucky - we have family and a network of friends dotted around both north and south of us. The shock value of a phone call to say "We've just heard that you were up to such and such...." normally is enough. I've been out to one of the day boats before now though. Never any trouble with the 8 seater, only ever on the 12. The number required for a mob mentality must be between 8 and 12 therefore!

[Sefrican]

We are not experienced hirers having hired twice for a two week period both times. The first hire was with Foxhangers in 2007 and we were given a very detailed handover of the boat followed by a walk to the nearest lock where we joined another couple hiring for the first time for a demonstration of how the locks work, safety aspects etc. We were then accompanied on our individual narrowboats to the first lock where the handover staff observed us locking through without any difficulty.

 

We continued on our way with the other narrowboat following. However it soon became clear over the next day that although we had both had exactly the same handover, the husband on the other boat was just too gungho for his own good much to his wife's unhappiness. She actually remarked to us that she wished he would watch what we were doing and take things a bit more slowly especially entering a lock. On the third day we learnt that she had been so stressed with his handling of the boat that she made her own way back to Bristol and he was joined by a friend on the boat instead. I think this just bears out what others have said - some people are just not teachable and it's not always the hire company at fault.

 

Our second hire was this year with Wyvern and again we had a friendly and professional handover and a great boat.

[Machpoint005]

...the day boats were bad enough when we were out...

Luckily the two day boats based at our marina rarely, if ever, venture into a lock.

 

......is it compulsory to dress as a pirate?

Only for pastafarians.

[RichardH]

We spend around 3 hours with novice crews taking them on a 40 min cruise and then 3 locks. If they still haven't 'got it' we don't let them go solo until they have.

 

Even with experienced crews we do a full boat show through and then observe behaviour down the first lock - dealing with a broad lock for a crew who have only ever done narrow locks can be quite different.

 

We know there are hire companies out there who do the bare minimum but our experience of chatting to hirers suggests that most do their best.

 

Even so hirers lie and blame the company when challenged over their poor behaviour. We have only had one particularly bad example this year but a lockie we know very well shared with us this chaps behaviour and when he asked him why he was not handling the boat in an appropriate fashion he told the lockie 'I have had no training whatsover'

 

So clearly the 3 hours I'd spent with him 2 days previously had been in my imagination.

 

On the whole though let's not forget, hirers may be nervous or excited which can lead to them forgetting bits of the handover. Be patient, they could be the boat owners of the future.

[mayalld]

We spend around 3 hours with novice crews taking them on a 40 min cruise and then 3 locks. If they still haven't 'got it' we don't let them go solo until they have.

 

Even with experienced crews we do a full boat show through and then observe behaviour down the first lock - dealing with a broad lock for a crew who have only ever done narrow locks can be quite different.

 

We know there are hire companies out there who do the bare minimum but our experience of chatting to hirers suggests that most do their best.

 

Even so hirers lie and blame the company when challenged over their poor behaviour. We have only had one particularly bad example this year but a lockie we know very well shared with us this chaps behaviour and when he asked him why he was not handling the boat in an appropriate fashion he told the lockie 'I have had no training whatsover'

 

So clearly the 3 hours I'd spent with him 2 days previously had been in my imagination.

 

On the whole though let's not forget, hirers may be nervous or excited which can lead to them forgetting bits of the handover. Be patient, they could be the boat owners of the future.

 

Your handover sounds exemplary, and we have various examples of people from hire firms saying the same, yet all the hire firms seem to acknowledge that there are others that don't do it well.

 

The problem is that whilst you can urge patience, those who haven't absorbed the fundamentals are going to cause damage to our boats. Sure I can just put it down as one of those things when a novice cannons into the side of my boat. The dent isn't big, but over time the cumulative effect is large.

 

As I see it the biggest problem is that there really is no comeback if a hirer fails to pay attention, and causes problems. Hire companies are reluctant to withold deposits, because they want repeat custom, and if they get a reputation for keeping back deposits they aren't going to get it.

[romseyles]

I have been hiring for many years. I think the hiring companies could do more on some aspects. Slowing down when passing moored boats is something I don`t believe is stressed enough and recently I`ve noticed that shortly after leaving the marinas many hired boats are going far too quickly. Having said that it was an owned boat that managed to jam our hooks hard into the "metal" at Alvechurch "Crown" moorings last week, they were going at a fair lick southbound and I wondered how on earth they got through the bridge.

Other things the hiring companies could do to improve the experience for novices and indeed all customers:-

 

Provide a print out from "waterscape" so the hirer has reasonably up to date info.

Tell hirers just how difficult some aspects of the trip might be- stiffness of paddle gear on the Worcs and Brum for example.

Keep a record of things that are out of action- the water point at the bottom of Deph locks is no longer there.

 

Of course we have to remember that the brochures paint a rosy picture because they don`t want to put the novices off and they don`t want to suggest that it can be quite tough going. We have met people over the years who simply can`t handle it and I understand that abandonment of hired boats is not uncommon, one hiring company told me it happens more often than one might imagine.

[RichardH]

Your handover sounds exemplary, and we have various examples of people from hire firms saying the same, yet all the hire firms seem to acknowledge that there are others that don't do it well.

 

The problem is that whilst you can urge patience, those who haven't absorbed the fundamentals are going to cause damage to our boats. Sure I can just put it down as one of those things when a novice cannons into the side of my boat. The dent isn't big, but over time the cumulative effect is large.

 

As I see it the biggest problem is that there really is no comeback if a hirer fails to pay attention, and causes problems. Hire companies are reluctant to withold deposits, because they want repeat custom, and if they get a reputation for keeping back deposits they aren't going to get it.

 

 

Thanks Dave. I think I was more nervous when we had our National Handover Accreditation earlier this year than my driving test !

 

To clarify though, I wouldn't expect patience if hirers are acting in an unacceptable fashion and clearly d*cking about. If we found out that this was happening we would have no hesitation in withholding part or all of the deposit until an assessment was made of the damage caused. We operate a £250 deposit scheme because unlike the £50 damage waiver which some operate, we believe it focuses peoples minds into acting responsibly. As such the boats have had virtually no damage due to pure negligence all season. We have a close friend in the industry who will be adopting our approach after a shocking amount of wilful neglect.

 

I wouldn't want repeat custom from someone who brought our name into disrepute or trashed the boats.

[alan_fincher]

I have been hiring for many years. I think the hiring companies could do more on some aspects.

What a sensible and well balanced post.

 

It sums up the dilemma well.

 

I once worked for a hire boat firm as a Saturday job.

 

It was often hard to know what to do when an enthusiastic crew with only two adults turned up, and neither proved strong enough to wind a paddle. I know other hire firms simply wound them for them, and sent them on their way Alternatively one person who could handle either boat, or locks, but not both, and not supported by anybody else much use at either.

 

The owner at my outfit insisted we never did anything but instruct, and the hirers were the only ones allowed to touch locks or boat controls. Sometimes watching some overweight red-faced person struggle with a recalcitrant paddle, I thought I was about to witness a heart attack.

 

I think some hire firms should stress more in their advertising that at least moderate physical fitness is required - particularly if it's one of the ones where your fairly quickly encounter Tardebigge.

[Woollymishka]

Hi all

As a nb trainer along with a couple of colleagues we have been trying to encourage hire companies to look at providing a half day for all hirers during which they receive some basic training/induction at a cost to either the hirer or hire company.

In the long run we feel that investing in a training 'package' could result in less damage and wear and tear to their boats so the cost of such a package could be recouped quite quickly and easily.

To date we have had no success but it is early days and after Cropredy maybe H & S will be directive? though I would not wish their recommendations to be oppressive.

Myself and swmbo have spent numerous hours helping people and my other training colleagues have all been in the same situation - hence our various attempts at trying to convince hire companies to take some action before it is too late (again)

Sorry folks - on my soap box again!

[ditchcrawler]

As an aside, if any of ours are misbehaving (and I'm there will be some), we DO want to know - that's our reputation they're ruining, and I can do that on my own.

What do you do, set Crystal on them

 

edit to remove double posting

 

It seems to me that with some people it doesn't matter how much you explain things they either don't listen or seem to have forgotten it all by the time they drive of into the distance!

At the moment I am helping a friend out by doing the 'handovers' on their day boat. I have lived aboard narrow boats and wide beams for over 6 years, have experience both driving breasting up narrow boats and towing on a long line/cross straps. I also drive the widebeam and have my helmsman certificate and am required to do basic engine checks daily. I talk my clients through all the aspects of the boat and pay partricular notice to the 'safety' aspects. I also give them examples of how we get to know if they misbehave and that their deposit is at stake. But this does not stop them and several times they have come passed our boat which is moored up and their faces are a picture when I stand on the front deck and ask if I am going shopping with their deposit, as they are sat on the roof/going too fast /sat on the front!

They do sign to say they have understood and agree to the all of the terms and conditions, so apart from from following them all day, I'm not sure how to solve this!

This week we met a Gt Haywood day boat, the chap from the yard took them to Tixal Wide and the drove round to meet them at Tixal Lock to make sure they were OK.

Edited August 26, 2009 by ditchcrawler