Voting for CC's

[fender]

I thought it best to start new topic...

 

NBW says "Fiddling the poll won't work"

 

My answer: Its easy to fiddle it. I am an expereinced web designer and I have tested their poll many times. There are many ways of doing it. Their claim that it doesnt accept multiple voting is not on.

 

NBW: "Please realise that on the whole continuous cruisers are unable to go online, and thus vote, which leaves the poll just as a general exercise to ascertain the feeling of moorers towards continuous cruiser licencing."

 

My answer: Seems a bizarre way of conducting a poll doesnt it? One rule for them and none for us. We're back in the good old USSR. Beat ourselves up before the police get round to it!

[Sam]

I thought it best to start new topic...

 

NBW says "Fiddling the poll won't work"

 

My answer: Its easy to fiddle it. I am an expereinced web designer and I have tested their poll many times. There are many ways of doing it. Their claim that it doesnt accept multiple voting is not on.

 

NBW: "Please realise that on the whole continuous cruisers are unable to go online, and thus vote, which leaves the poll just as a general exercise to ascertain the feeling of moorers towards continuous cruiser licencing."

 

My answer: Seems a bizarre way of conducting a poll doesnt it? One rule for them and none for us. We're back in the good old USSR. Beat ourselves up before the police get round to it!

28979[/snapback]

 

Oh well,

I saw that post on NBW this morning when i had a wee look at the site.

 

RE: the voting poll thing, I also am a website designer and agree with Fender, although maybe NBW are just saying this to discourage people from voting multiple times.

 

Sam

[Sue]

This is interesting...

 

When I went to bed last night this is what the poll said..

 

Yes they should pay 48.28%

No they shouldn't pay 51.72%

Total votes since noon Sunday 1537

 

But now it says

 

Yes 77.04%

No 22.96%

Total votes since Monday 8am (BST!) 3216

 

What a farce!!!!!!!!

 

So I voted 6 times last night, OK well that is a few off, and anyway how many ccers are going to do multipul votes that effect the poll so dramatically??

 

It is easy enough to fiddle anyway... just find anything related to http://desktop.websurveyor.net or narrowboatworld in the cookies/temporary internet/temp folders and delete it, go back with a different IP and vote again.

 

They can't possible tell who has double voted... So then of course they can go back and change the poll for their own liking..

 

Here just like this..

 

This is me setting up a poll using websurveyor..

 

1.

 

 

Notice I can put 100 votes in anywhere I want!

 

2.

 

 

Here we go, looking good for me already before anyone has voted!

 

3.

 

 

Nearly finished my corupt poll!

 

4.

 

 

Thats it, all done, now to get the html and chuck that on my website ready for people to vote... ha I win if only 99 people say 'no'!!

 

If this poll is designed to influence BW then it is a totally set up.. NBW should be ashamed of themselves for asking boaters to vote against other boaters... I feel like the scum of the earth at the moment, and it is hard to keep my head high to all those that want and have a mooring..

 

Sad, sad, sad

[gaggle]

nbw has no shame whatsoever

dont visit the site

no hits on the site and it might die a slow and painful death,the kind of death a certain man deserves and i hope he gets.sooner rather than later.

[bottle]

I to have multi voted and sent three 'heavily' worded E-mails to the editor.

 

Every time I go on line and open there page I can vote. Cookies deleted automatically every time I log off.

 

Biggest farce going

[bottle]

Of course there are ways around all polls, none are absolutely fool-proof'. This is the third company I have used, and the others were even worse!

 

But with this one the company store your email address for seven days, which can be accessed, and it is a small matter to nullify your extra votes which has been done, so it will be a true result. Hope this explains.

 

This is a quote from the e-mail reply sent by the editor NBW

 

Perhaps the computer literate can explain how they get the e-mail address. I have mine blocked/fire walled or so I thought.

 

 

As I explained, all the multiple votes were deleted at one time by the provider, which made the difference, as we have stated on the site.

 

As the number of votes polled gets greater, the multiple voting will of course have much less impact.

 

Re your comments about continuous cruisers, I personally have no strong feelings.

 

This is a quote from another e-mail reply from the editor of NBW

 

This was to my query as to why it went from 50/50 to 80/20 in five minutes.

[Sue]

I have written to the editor also, and as yet, no reply. I have asked for the poll to be removed showing him this thread with the 'corrupt' poll that I have managed to do.

 

I have also been in contact with

 

Bob Fuchs

Survey Sales Advisor

WebSurveyor Corporation

 

He actually wrote to me first because to be able to have a look at that poll and how it worked I had to register and get it.

 

I asked him

 

"I am interested in how it can be fiddled actually, tell me how does

it know if someone has double voted?"

 

He replied..

 

"It should drop a cookie on a persons computer so they can't take it

again, but again if they clear their cookies, or possible take it from

another browser they may be able to take it again."

 

Then me..

 

 

"Oh, I thought it would be able to detect IP numbers?"

 

No reply back.. maybe there won't be, but if he does then I shall ask him about this email thing. Funny they didnt mention emails and deleting stuff themselves.

 

NBW have anything to say on this do you?

[Sam]

1) NBW is not going to die out, lots of people love the site

2) It strikes me that it is sad of you to actually do all this just because you don't like something on a website.

Edited August 29, 2005 by Sam

[Sue]

It is very rare Sam that I am sad.. in fact I am an extremely happy person as anyone who knows me will tell you.

 

NBW is a very good site, I don't hate it or have anything against it. I do read it regularly.

 

I do not intend to make it a hate thing between this forum and NBW.

 

The poll is corrupt against continuous cruisers. It needs to be exposed as corrupt. Sorry but I don't want to see that sort of rubbish on that site.

 

Like you say, it is a good site that, pity they gone and made a mistake.

 

I shall not be commenting more in this thread.

 

Edit: Sam, how many more times are you going to edit the post above this? This reply was to what you said firsty to me. Now you have edited 4 times!! Sorry to all if this post seems irrelevant to what Sam NOW says above.

Edited August 29, 2005 by Sue

[Sam]

NBW have already stated that it will probably be unfair anyway..

Edited August 29, 2005 by Sam

[Bernie]

A very insulting reply young Sam, it is a pity that NBW (an excellent site normally) are running this poll, you can rig the vote by deleting cookies and then vote as many times as you wish, so it is not a true or very fair poll.

 

Edited to add:-

 

Although this reply now seems irrelevant to what what was said originally it appears that over an hour after some replies were edited out by the postee.

Edited August 29, 2005 by Bernie

[Sam]

No polls on the internet are fair (normally).

Edited August 29, 2005 by Sam

[maffi mushkila]

I am mortified.

 

That NBW can even think that it is a good thing to set boater against boater is to their discredit.

 

Who do they think they are?

[bottle]

I have just e-mailed the editor again, perhaps he is being inundated, with the same thoughts as Maffi, that he should not be splitting the boat community.

 

Sam

 

Maybe this is a fair poll but it is perceived as being biassed by their own admission, to be in favour of permanent moorers

 

 

If you read the item in 'Breaking News', you will see that we acknowledge that continuous cruisers are not normally in a position to vote, and in fact it is just a poll of general feelings, with no ulterior motive.

 

Yet another quote

[Sam]

Oh well,

if he wants it on the site so be it.

[Richard Bustens]

Weather you like the pole or not .

I don't believe you have voted more than once and anyone who has should be ashamed of themselves. that makes you a untrustworthy person....

Edited August 29, 2005 by Richard Bustens

[fender]

Weather you like the pole or not .

I don't believe you have voted more than once and anyone who has should be ashamed of themselves. that makes you a untrustworthy person....

29018[/snapback]

 

I set up an account with web surveyor (like Sue) late last night and was appalled at how easily the voting results could be altered and there were more than one way to do this on the web surveyor site! Everything has been recorded and logged since yesterday - the bizzare jumps in the numbers of yes votes and the changes implemented and the comments on the NBW site to try and cover their tracks such as removing the websurveyor link visually, and their claims that it couldnt be fiddled, as well as the various ways that the results can be altered all of these have been recorded as images showing the various steps and ways etc. Richard you need to look in the right place for the untrustworthy persons!

Edited August 29, 2005 by fender

[Richard Bustens]

I don't have to look anywhere, you all know if you have voted more than once.

I cant believe that you would do that no matter which way you vote, it makes the whole thing invalid, and anyone doing it should be struck off the site.

 

I cant believe that i know and talk to people who are so dishonest

[fender]

I cant believe that i know and talk to people who are so dishonest

29022[/snapback]

 

I take it you dont mean NBW? Of course not!

[Richard Bustens]

I have just emailed Tom at NBW and suggested that as it is obviously being cheated on that he removes it and sorts out some security before re doing it again.

 

You all know that my views are that CC should pay a SMALL amount more but i do not condone this way of getting it, it is not realistic that there could be 1500 or so votes today so it makes a farce of the whole thing, the problem is that if it is seen by BW they may think that that is the way everyone thinks, and that is not fair, until now the pole was running about 50/50 so to go to what is showing now can not be right.

[bottle]

I have just emailed Tom at NBW and suggested that as it is obviously being cheated on that he removes it and sorts out some security before re doing it again.

 

You all know that my views are that CC should pay a SMALL amount more but i do not condone this way of getting it, it is not realistic that there could be 1500 or so votes today so it makes a farce of the whole thing, the problem is that if it is seen by BW they may think that that is the way everyone thinks, and that is not fair, until now the pole was running about 50/50 so to go to what is showing now can not be right.

29025[/snapback]

 

Richard

 

We have not been dishonest, my efforts were to show that the poll could not be anything other than 'doubtful'. I have been in contact with Tom all day and put the very same points as you, the poll is a farce and should be removed immediately, its integrity has been shown to be faulty. Therefore my reason for voting many times was to show the falseness off it, it has worked. I cannot speak for the others.

The old adage, it should not only be fair but be shown to be fair, has not worked in this instance.

 

I was told by Tom that my e-mail address had been noted and all my votes had been removed, how they managed this I do not know as my e-mail is fire walled and I also have many anti-virus programs as well.

[bottle]

Quote from e-mail from editor of NBW

 

Of course there are ways around all polls, none are absolutely fool-proof'. This is the third company I have used, and the others were even worse!

 

But with this one the company store your email address for seven days, which can be accessed, and it is a small matter to nullify your extra votes which has been done, so it will be a true result. Hope this explains.

[fender]

Online polls are a fix for those needing to 'prove' THEIR position is held by the majority.

 

Dont trust computers with e-votes http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianpolitics...,813176,00.html

 

Online Research - Not Quite The Holy Grail

http://www.researchdimensions.com/article_06.html

 

PS I was able to add ONE HUNDRED MILLION 'yes' "voters" to my online tests!

Edited August 29, 2005 by fender

[dor]

At the risk of making many enemies....... I do think you are all getting rather over-excited about something that really does have very little consequence.

 

How much notice do you think anyone is going to take of such a clearly unrepresentative poll?

 

The more you rant and rave about this subject, the more Tom Crossley will have his fun with you.

 

Haven't you got anything better to do than get all upset about this?

[Sue]

But with this one the company store your email address for seven days, which can be accessed, and it is a small matter to nullify your extra votes which has been done, so it will be a true result. Hope this explains.

 

But only if you have given your email address in the first place.

 

On their security settings page..

 

Allow one response per e-mail Checking this option inserts a text field to the end of your survey prompting respondents to enter their e-mail address. When the responses are downloaded for analysis, any duplicate e-mail addresses that match an earlier response will be ignored

 

There was nowhere to enter email addresses after voting.

 

Link