I got hurt

[mayalld]

I'm with Sir Nibble...

 

In the vast majority of cases catching the steerer's eye and looking willing, windlass in hand is enough. It's already been said that it's the wheeler in charge, especially when my wheeler is deaf so wouldn't hear me screaming... We'll be setting ahead if both of us are off the boat but not if I'm steering.

 

Yes, catch his eye, with windlass in hand. Just don't do it with windlass on paddle!

[jactomtroub]

For all your interest. The hire company asked for a report of what happened which I sent. It included as much detail as I could remember, time, place, where thier crew were from. Thier short and rude reply was:

'Not wishing to appear unhelpfull without the name of the boat we cannot take this matter any furthur.'

 

You bet they are going to take it further! I would have been content with an apology and reassurance that they will improve training of hirers. Now I am out for blood. Will keep you informed.

 

Out of interest we do keep our boat upto the top gate but still open paddles with care but not sloooowly! In this case we had only just cleared the bottom gate when it happened. My hand is sore but healing. Stitches are out now.

[Guest]

I always offer assistance if I am in a position to do so. Usually, I will put my windlass on the gear and call to the helmsman, recieving a thumbs up I begin to draw the paddle stopping about halfway. If I get no signal from the steerer, (usually 'cos they don't realise I am waiting for it) then the paddle remains closed. I have many times had the crew of the boat in the lock whip paddles fully open and be bemused as to why I don't do the same, I have never been asked (told!) to proceed more slowly. The trick is I suspect to be aware of the unwritten rules for such occasions, rule 1, the steerer is in charge.

Spot on.

[mayalld]

For all your interest. The hire company asked for a report of what happened which I sent. It included as much detail as I could remember, time, place, where thier crew were from. Thier short and rude reply was:

'Not wishing to appear unhelpfull without the name of the boat we cannot take this matter any furthur.'

 

How is that rude?

 

With the best will in the world, unless you can identify the boat, what on earth can they do about it.

 

Clearly a hire company should deal with hirers who have caused a problem, but equally clearly their business depends upon customer goodwill, and upon past customers returning. It would be unreasonable to expect them to challenge the crew of every boat that they have out on hire about this incident.

[Tiny]

It used to be the case that the vast majority knew how to operate locks with consideration.

 

Unfortunately, an increasing number operate locks with other people's boats in with the sole objective of gaining the lock 30 seconds earlier, regardless of the potential damage.

 

I too help people, but I take great pains to ensure that I do so on their terms.

 

Like you, I usually ride the forward gate, but in some locks, whipping the paddles up can throw you back several feet, before dragging you forward again.

 

We are not the Sunday Drivers of the canals, and whilst considerate use of paddles may add a few seconds at one point, we more than make up for that in the efficiency of our overall operation.

 

Mooring near locks it is amazing how many 'whip the paddles up for others' merchants suddenly become so slow when it is their boat. The worse was a single hander who was still driving into a wide lock and just inside gates slammed shut, paddles flew up and he and boat were chucked all over the place. Having got him out they way they empyied the lock and spent 20 minutes getting their two boats through with ropes, paddles barely drawn and all the rest. Talk about one law.

 

Incidently we keep a file of things the wife gets called for not letting boat crews slap paddles up. These include 'whinging pom' from an Antipodean lady and, from a lady on a hire boat from Sawley and whole mass of gems including 'my husband has been through the Panama canal and knows how to work locks properly' and (when the wife started having hysterics at the rubbish the lady had spent 5 minutes spouting) 'You are the rudest person I have ever met. Do not come on OUR canal again'

[nb Innisfree]

I at last know why locking has got so antisocial. People used to help each other, now they are scared to incase they do it wrong.

I go into a lock till I touch the gates and are happy to have the ground paddles whipped up. Keeping the boat in forward gear seems to solve most problems.

Sue

 

How do you touch gates without hitting the cill first? I keep back to avoid contact with cill to avoid damaging my bow and creep up to gate when there is enough depth of water. If someone opens paddles too much during this process then you have to use lots of revs/noise/smoke or hit gate hard, Middlewich lock can be a b****r for this

[Machpoint005]

How do you touch gates without hitting the cill first?

Depends on the lock. They're not all 12ft deep.

 

 

 

...(when the wife started having hysterics at the rubbish the lady had spent 5 minutes spouting) ...

A smile can be disarming, a good laugh must be murderous - to the pompous!

[mayalld]

Mooring near locks it is amazing how many 'whip the paddles up for others' merchants suddenly become so slow when it is their boat. The worse was a single hander who was still driving into a wide lock and just inside gates slammed shut, paddles flew up and he and boat were chucked all over the place. Having got him out they way they empyied the lock and spent 20 minutes getting their two boats through with ropes, paddles barely drawn and all the rest. Talk about one law.

 

Incidently we keep a file of things the wife gets called for not letting boat crews slap paddles up. These include 'whinging pom' from an Antipodean lady and, from a lady on a hire boat from Sawley and whole mass of gems including 'my husband has been through the Panama canal and knows how to work locks properly' and (when the wife started having hysterics at the rubbish the lady had spent 5 minutes spouting) 'You are the rudest person I have ever met. Do not come on OUR canal again'

 

Ah, now, I think I might have met the "you are the rudest person I've ever met" lady.

 

We were going down the T&M just below Great Haywood, two boats travelling together (we were the second boat of the pair).

 

Having set off fairly early (we like early starts), we happened upon a boat moored not far from the top of the lock. It was very clear from the frantic efforts to get things untied that the lady of the boat was livid at the thought of other boats being ahead of her.

 

We arrived at the lock, set it and our friends motored in. Wife driving, me poised to shut the top gate behind them, and husband at the offside bottom paddle.

 

As I was starting to shut the top gate, madam marched past me, and whipped up the towpath side bottom paddle, causing the top gate to slam shut with an almighty bang.

 

Nothing was said (I would have said something immediately, but I wasn't in charge), and our friends boat exited the lock without further incident. As there were no upstream boats, I drew the upstream paddles, and refilled for our descent. Madam remained poised by the downstream gates.

 

As the lock was filling, I wandered towards madam, with the intention of politely asking that she operate the paddles with rather less enthusiasm than she had for our friends.

 

As I approached, I was greeted with;

 

"Are those people friends of yours", and the intonation of "those people" made it clear that she had nothing but contempt for them.

 

I replied that they were indeed friends of mine, and madam responded with;

"Well, when you catch up with them, you can tell them that they are damned rude. I helped them through the lock, and never got so much as a thank you. I have never encountered anybody so rude."

 

I told her that her help had not been asked for, had been imposed upon our friends without their consent, and had actually consisted of operating a lock in a dangerous manner, and that as such it was hardly surprising that she had not been thanked for her interference, and that today must be a really special day, because she had now encountered me, and I am far ruder!

 

That rather got her going, and she ranted at me as to the fact that it was her RIGHT to speed other boats through locks so as to get the lock faster, and that it was all our fault for setting off too early in the morning.

 

I thanked her for her opinion, and suggested that given her views, she would be better off returning to her own boat, and leaving us to go through without her help. She stormed off shrieking insults.

[alan_fincher]

I at last know why locking has got so antisocial. People used to help each other, now they are scared to incase they do it wrong.

I go into a lock till I touch the gates and are happy to have the ground paddles whipped up. Keeping the boat in forward gear seems to solve most problems.

Sue

 

 

How do you touch gates without hitting the cill first? I keep back to avoid contact with cill to avoid damaging my bow and creep up to gate when there is enough depth of water. If someone opens paddles too much during this process then you have to use lots of revs/noise/smoke or hit gate hard, Middlewich lock can be a b****r for this

 

Whatever goes around, comes around!

 

Once you have been on this forum a while, you will realise you have seen opposite approaches to the same problem aired time and time again.

 

Searches of old threads would reveal a large percentage of seasoned boaters arguing that (when ascending) you should stay as far away from the top gates as possible, and maybe similar numbers that you should get right up "close and intimate" with them.

 

It can't be the same argument for all locks, (what works at Cosgrove will not necessarily be safe at Stanstead Abbotts - another scary lock if you have not been warned).

 

Nor can the same be argued as a standard approach for all boats (a seventy footer has little chance of staying away from top gate paddles, a thirty footer can give them 40 feet of clear margin, and even in Denham deep is going to be untroubled if all 6 paddles go straight up).

 

Surely it's about people doing what's best for them, and others respecting that.

 

As I said previously, when two "teams" with totally different approaches or agendas start to share, then maybe additional skills in diplomacy start to be needed.

 

A year ago I would have told you our preferred method of ascending a "typically deep" GU lock on our own. Based on a year's more practice, I now do it a different way, but have learnt that from experience, not from people telling me how I must do it.

[mayalld]

How do you touch gates without hitting the cill first? I keep back to avoid contact with cill to avoid damaging my bow and creep up to gate when there is enough depth of water. If someone opens paddles too much during this process then you have to use lots of revs/noise/smoke or hit gate hard, Middlewich lock can be a b****r for this

 

Most of the cheshire locks have a rubbing board, and you ride that up to cill level in forward gear, then as your front fender rises over the board, your stem will briefly ride the top edge of the board, before the fender touches the gate.

 

I would agree though that the water flows in those locks are particularly fearsome, and can throw boats forward and back.

[nb Innisfree]

Whatever goes around, comes around!

 

Once you have been on this forum a while, you will realise you have seen opposite approaches to the same problem aired time and time again.

 

Searches of old threads would reveal a large percentage of seasoned boaters arguing that (when ascending) you should stay as far away from the top gates as possible, and maybe similar numbers that you should get right up "close and intimate" with them.

 

It can't be the same argument for all locks, (what works at Cosgrove will not necessarily be safe at Stanstead Abbotts - another scary lock if you have not been warned).

 

Nor can the same be argued as a standard approach for all boats (a seventy footer has little chance of staying away from top gate paddles, a thirty footer can give them 40 feet of clear margin, and even in Denham deep is going to be untroubled if all 6 paddles go straight up).

 

Surely it's about people doing what's best for them, and others respecting that.

 

As I said previously, when two "teams" with totally different approaches or agendas start to share, then maybe additional skills in diplomacy start to be needed.

 

A year ago I would have told you our preferred method of ascending a "typically deep" GU lock on our own. Based on a year's more practice, I now do it a different way, but have learnt that from experience, not from people telling me how I must do it.

 

True, horses for courses and all that jazz, must engage brain before putting finger to keypad, or, be more diplomatic?

Edited July 1, 2009 by nb Innisfree

[mayalld]

Whatever goes around, comes around!

 

Once you have been on this forum a while, you will realise you have seen opposite approaches to the same problem aired time and time again.

 

Searches of old threads would reveal a large percentage of seasoned boaters arguing that (when ascending) you should stay as far away from the top gates as possible, and maybe similar numbers that you should get right up "close and intimate" with them.

 

Hmm, I counted it rather differently!

 

• Quite a few seem to favour riding the top gate.
  
• A few favour engine control to stay away from both gates
  
• A few favour ropes to stay away from both gates
  
• John Orentas passionately argues that one should stay as close to the bottom gates as possible
  

[carlt]

Hmm, I counted it rather differently!

 

• Quite a few seem to favour riding the top gate.
  
• A few favour engine control to stay away from both gates
  
• A few favour ropes to stay away from both gates
  
• John Orentas passionately argues that one should stay as close to the bottom gates as possible
  

That's about how I see it.

 

Poll anyone?

[nb Innisfree]

Hmm, I counted it rather differently!

 

• Quite a few seem to favour riding the top gate.
  
• A few favour engine control to stay away from both gates
  
• A few favour ropes to stay away from both gates
  
• John Orentas passionately argues that one should stay as close to the bottom gates as possible
  

 

I mentioned Middlewich as a bit of a b****r because to avoid the cill (going up) you have to hold back and as water rises there is an increasingly strong pull forward and you have to be in reverse all the time to enable you to approach gate constantly and slowly, if you are distracted for a short while then boat gathers speed rapidly when big fistfulls of reverse are needed, even worse if it's your first time there!

[carlt]

I mentioned Middlewich as a bit of a b****r because to avoid the cill (going up) you have to hold back and as water rises there is an increasingly strong pull forward and you have to be in reverse all the time to enable you to approach gate constantly and slowly, if you are distracted for a short while then boat gathers speed rapidly when big fistfulls of reverse are needed, even worse if it's your first time there!

What's wrong with letting the stem iron ride up the cill?

[mayalld]

I mentioned Middlewich as a bit of a b****r because to avoid the cill (going up) you have to hold back and as water rises there is an increasingly strong pull forward and you have to be in reverse all the time to enable you to approach gate constantly and slowly, if you are distracted for a short while then boat gathers speed rapidly when big fistfulls of reverse are needed, even worse if it's your first time there!

 

Why would you wish to avoid the cill going up?

[saltysplash]

Why would you wish to avoid the cill going up?

 

 

All paintwork must be protected at all costs and at all times

[carlt]

All paintwork must be protected at all costs and at all times

That's why I never put it on a boat, where it will get hurt.

[mayalld]

All paintwork must be protected at all costs and at all times

 

The bit that will touch the cill is blacked, not painted

[saltysplash]

The bit that will touch the cill is blacked, not painted

 

 

Thats right, or so any sane person would think so,

[carlt]

Thats right, or so any sane person would think so,

I think so too!

 

Thank you for confirming my sanity, Dr Splash.

[nb Innisfree]

Why would you wish to avoid the cill going up?

 

A bit girlie probably but I don't like to scrape my precious blacking against hard surface, only like to make contact with hard surfaces with buttons or fenders but happy not to use side fenders in locks only rubbing strakes. To avoid hard impact with cill you need to be almost at a standstill when contacting it which involves a lot of throttle juggling, just easier to stand back.

[Machpoint005]

The bit that will touch the cill is blacked, not painted

Not any more - nicely polished!

[carlt]

To avoid hard impact with cill you need to be almost at a standstill when contacting it which involves a lot of throttle juggling, just easier to stand back.

No you approach dead slow and leave it in tickover, that way you only scrape a bit of black off the stem iron, which can easily be touched up, if it concerns you.

 

Standing back, in many locks, means that the boat is being lurched backwards and forwards.

 

This means someone has to stay on the boat, whilst in the lock.

[saltysplash]

I think so too!

 

Thank you for confirming my sanity, Dr Splash.

 

 

I have been known to make the occaisional wrong diagnosis