bridge hopper

[Richard Bustens]

Fender, i just believe that what is right for one, is for all and if the law says you will do this. you must do it to the best of your ability. the laws of this country are put there by the majority, for the good of society and need to be heeded by all, just because you dont like one or other law you can not just opt out of that one,

 

I think we should bring back corporal punishment, and hanging....

[fender.]

I think we should bring back corporal punishment, and hanging....

30716[/snapback]

 

dont forget to add miscarriages of justice!

 

Richard I bet there are laws you 'opt out' of! Some laws are for asses and some laws are a inconvience, whilst others do a fair job. Introduce more laws, legislation, taxes and fees and you only create dissent. Thats not healthy. Care to join the current fuel tax protests - or are you happy to pay more for your fuel/boat diesel and keep to the letter of the law?

 

I'm not prepared to talk level on this forum if people keep coming up with arguements that are about pay more cough up more, more legisaltion etc. We all use the canals together and what is needed is a strong community spirit. I dont think politics/economics should have a place on the waterways because it is not the place to delve in such subjects. They are for getting away from everyday life and relaxing, and trying to enjoy life as one as much as one reasonbly can - and not having one's head shoved deeply in a bag ful of sh*t.

Edited September 12, 2005 by fender.

[fender.]

As a Newbie dare I say AM I missing something here about boat culture?

30705[/snapback]

 

You're not - they are!

 

Canals were the domain of the working class and a lot of them worked bloody hard to make a living. Seems some people want to make canals into an expensive playground. Why dont we put water meters on the locks and pay for the water used - by the gallon? That'd satisfy some of the smart mugs on this forum.

Edited September 12, 2005 by fender.

[gaggle]

the canals have them

and also there is us

 

them,sometimes known as they can be a mighty troublesome bunch at times.

they or them have rules that they made up between themselves.

 

they insist that us live by rules they make up,also all the rules others make up as well.

 

others have special powers that give them rights to make rules.

 

they or them sometimes begin to believe that they are others and act accordingly.

 

so we who are called us are duty bound to stand up to them and say stop.

 

the problems begin when the difference between them and us becomes to visable.

 

they or them would like to shoot ,hang,garrotte,stab or just generally cause great harm to us if us do not conform to some rules like them.

 

i think fender is saying i do not want to be one of them.

i would like to think that with all the new people coming on the cut soon them or they will be outnumbered by us and things will change.

 

the others i mentioned know that they or them are not up for change and can be pushed around.

 

us on the other hand,well we really are the salt of the earth be one of us

[david and julie]

I'm not so sure of a them and us situation really. I see this as simple maths, if you need a grand and 10 people pay thats £100 apiece. If, however, 5 of the people refuse to pay, you will still need the grand. The difference being the other 5 will have to pay £200 each.

 

Now if you are saying the powers that be are taking the mickey with their inflated salaries, pensions and overtaxing etc, then I would agree with you. Unfortunately we can't stop the latter and in any case it still wouldn't make the former right.

[anthony]

If its maths its simple.

 

I pay my licence fee be it CC or a moored one.

 

I keep to the rules and no one has any need to get pissed off if i dont and if i get fined fair enough.

 

I see it like a car really if you speed you get fined ect ect then if you persistently take the mick you get banned.

 

You pay you obey or go away.

 

However if i want to cruise around the Manchester in a 20 mile radius staying no where longer than a couple of nights then i dont want to hear it any complaints if i move on 3 to 5 miles and stay another 2 nights and so on because IM doing no harm to anyone.

 

IM not sure if its a them or us position but i feel is a balanced reasonable position.

[david and julie]

But Anthony, we didn't make the rules, we are only saying how they work.

 

We all know we are seen as cash cows, but what can we do about it?

[fender.]

I'm not so sure of a them and us situation really. I see this as simple maths, if you need a grand and 10 people pay thats £100 apiece. If, however, 5 of the people refuse to pay, you will still need the grand. The difference being the other 5 will have to pay £200 each.

30757[/snapback]

 

Surely some things we have to go without? If people cant afford to pay for a project then it obvioulsy means that other ways have to be sought to raise money. This, my dears, is how the canals began. No-one could really afford to build a canal apart from Egerton & his Bridgewater Canal. Others such as the H&G were completed because of the sheer determination of just one person trying to convince people and raise money for the project. If there was no money they could not build a canal and if they started building one and ran out of money that was often the end of it. Some people struggled against all the odds to get a particular navigation completed, and often it meant money coming out of their own pockets and going cap in hand to try and beg for money to pay for a canal scheme. Nowdays its people breathing down our backs saying if you dont pay up you aint one of us and you aint getting anything!

Edited September 12, 2005 by fender.

[fender.]

If its maths its simple.

 

I pay my licence fee be it CC or a moored one.

 

I keep to the rules and no one has any need to get pissed off if i dont and if i get fined fair enough.

 

I see it like a car really if you speed you get fined ect ect then if you persistently take the mick you get banned.

 

You pay you obey or go away.

 

However if i want to cruise around the Manchester in a 20 mile radius staying no where longer than a couple of nights then i dont want to hear it any complaints if i move on 3 to 5 miles and stay another 2 nights and so on  because IM doing no harm to anyone.

 

IM not sure if its a them or us position but i feel is a balanced reasonable position.

30763[/snapback]

 

That is very reasonble Anthony.

[Liam]

However if i want to cruise around the Manchester in a 20 mile radius staying no where longer than a couple of nights then i dont want to hear it any complaints if i move on 3 to 5 miles and stay another 2 nights and so on  because IM doing no harm to anyone.

30763[/snapback]

That's fine..

 

If you DO end up being grassed on, make sure, as I said before... that you're aware of the consequences..

 

(and NO, NOT by me, I don't have any time for that nonsense.. )

 

Wherever you moor, be it 1 day, 1 week, 1 month or whatever, make sure you don't moor up anywhere daft, bridge holes, lock moorings, winding holes etc and don't take up any sort of short stay moorings, leave the 'mooring' as you found it and expect to be moaned at for being around the same area for a long time, it always happens.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm damn right jealous of people who can spend more than weekends on their boat. BUT, because I'm jealous, it doesn't mean I will ruin it for anyone. I just hope you have an easy life, and that I'll think of all the boogers out there who are doing it whilst I'm sat behind my desk at work

 

For the benefit of the others on the forum. I'd like to say that I don't support hiding round the corner for months on end, but I'm sure if it was possible for you, you'd be doing it.

 

All the best in whatever you choose.

[david and julie]

Sorry fender but I don't understand this.

Nowdays its people breathing down our backs saying if you dont pay up you aint one of us and you aint getting anything!

Don't get me wrong, CC's (or even BH's for that matter) don't bother me enough to shop anyone either( I have never shopped anyone over anything), I reckon there aren't that many anyway. Do you know anyone who has actually been breathed on or told anything like the above?

 

As I see it, your not a CC if you give someone a cheque each year for a mooring, which you may not even use. These empty berths then increase the demand and the market rate. Which is very nice if you run a near monopoly on marina's.

 

So it all comes down to money which is probably what the witch hunt is all about in the first place.

 

Are these increased charges just more stealth taxes under another name?

 

I'm afraid live and let live no longer applies in the UK anymore, money rules OK!

[Jamie]

If you have a CC or moored licence should make no difference to the way you are treated on the canal. If you are moored by the side of the canal who's right is it to say you have been there too long? Terming people as "BH" is just trying to create and popularise the idea that there are second class citizen's on the canals.

 

We all pay the same licence fee for the same facilities - CC and BH are not taking money out of anybodies pocket so why the hostility? We all use the same amount of water! Does anyone what to introduce more tiers in the licences to try and price people off living on boats permanently?

 

As for BH avoiding "civic" responsibilities I think that is just propaganda, when my mooring stake came off during the week, the "bridge hoper" who seems to be the focus of everybody’s hate was the one climbed onto the boat and poled it to the side and tied her up to the side again. Very civic don't you think? If you ever need help, these are the people who are most likely to give it to you. Just because they don’t have a mooring doesn’t make them scum.

 

If the canal community keeps brainwashing new users of the system into thinking that any sort of stopping outside of short term visitor moorings and home moorings is frowned on and will result in animosity from other canal users, then it will not be long before someone notices this shift in attitude and legislates it. Then we will all be in the sorry situation of having to sail through the night until we find a "BH approved" 24hr visitor mooring before we can tie up for the night.... not a nice though is it.

 

 

Work towards creating more freedoms for all, not to take away those freedoms that we have already.

[gaggle]

some people on the cut need the difference between bh,s cc,s and mariana dwellers ect.

how else can they show their superior to others.

if they dont have someone to look down on that means they would be on the same level as everyone else and that just wont do.

generally it is the same old story,they are superior,who says so? them,why,because they do thats all.

 

one of these fly on the wall program makers should put hidden camera,s in a boat club along the canal,it would be so funny to watch the commadore and his cronies.

 

they will not accept,they are not ABLE to accept that they are no better than other,s.

i just can,t wait to meet some of these self rightious, bigoted, pompous,self important,dirty no good,hypocritical barge pole up the arse boaters,and tell them very ever so politely to go **** a duck.

let them scurry off then to to tell the tale.

i aint got no mooring yet so i will have to be cc. i want seek out some of them out for a laugh and a bit off fun

[Liam]

Gaggle,

 

It's your lucky day.. I'm a member of a boating club! And, for the record, I don't look down on anyone and I would be the first one to admit I have faults.

 

I'm none of the above, but I'll let you off just this once as you've got no idea what you're talking about

 

If you were to put a camera in the boat club I'm a member of, you'd see nothing more than a bunch of people who work hard for what they have and want nothing more than to visit their boat at weekends, and either go out cruising or have a pint and a chat with other members of the club.

 

Liam - A very proud member of a 44 year old boating club.

[Maffi]

some people on the cut need the difference between bh,s cc,s and mariana dwellers ect.

how else can they show their superior to others.

if they dont have someone to look down on that means they would be on the same level as everyone else and that just wont do.

generally it is the same old story,they are superior,who says so? them,why,because they do thats all.

 

one of these fly on the wall program makers should put hidden camera,s in a boat club along the canal,it would be so funny to watch the commadore and his cronies.

 

they will not accept,they are not ABLE to accept that they are no better than other,s.

i just can,t wait to meet some of these self rightious, bigoted, pompous,self important,dirty no good,hypocritical barge pole up the arse boaters,and tell them very ever so politely to go **** a duck.

let them scurry off then to to tell the tale.

   

i ain't got no mooring yet so i will have to be cc.  i want seek out some of them  out for a laugh and a bit off fun

 

Gaggle

 

You really have a complex about other people and how they view you.

 

The boating fraternity are, like it or not, members of a 'club' administered by BW. There are rules, every society has them. To stay as a member of any club you have to comply with the rules. Those that don't find that their membership will not be renewed.

 

Take motoring, owning a motor car is not a right it's a privilege. It is a legal requirement that your car has TAX, MOT and insurance; also that you have a valid licence to drive on the public road. If you fail to provide these documents when asked then the courts will take away the privilege.

 

What is so different about boating? Obtaining a licence is dependent on the boater complying with the rules. Failure to do so could result in the licence being refused.

 

It's all very well saying "I want to do it my way", but one has to accept the inevitability of the bailiffs turning up one day and dropping ones boat on a low loader.

 

There are some people that are 'superior' (as you put it) simply because they know the rules of the 'club and are prepared to abide by them, as opposed to those who know the rules and do everything in their power to avoid them. In the UK we all drive on the left hand side of the road. It's one of the 'rules'. What mayhem would be caused if some decided that they would drive on the right.

 

Boating is really no different. Everyone should abide by the rules (it's a condition of the licence). That way everyone knows what to expect from each other. Your independence and personal style comes from how you paint your boat and how the fit out is done. By all means we can remonstrate with BW about the composition of the rules, but until they are changed the rules is the rules.

 

A CCer playing by the rules will be on a progressive journey around the system. If someone is not on a progressive journey around the system he isn't a CCer, it really is as simple as that. Other terms are 'invented' to categorise them. Be it bridge hoppers, towpath trash or more accurately fraudsters.

 

The minimum requirement of a CCer is to cruise at least once every 14 days to the next parish, given that that could be achieved in about two hours he should only need to travel for 52 hours a year. At the end of the year one can reasonably be expect him to be 52 hours cruising time from his starting point (very simplistic but you get my drift). Sitting on the same spot for six months means that the declaration he made when he bought his licence, that he was going to cruise the system, was fraudulent. Fraud is a criminal offence. So yes maybe some people are thought of as second class citizens, but merely because they are in effect 'criminals'.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Maffi

[Maffi]

If you have a CC or moored licence should make no difference to the way you are treated on the canal. If you are moored by the side of the canal who's right is it to say you have been there too long? Terming people as "BH" is just trying to create and popularise the idea that there are second class citizen's on the canals.

 

We all pay the same licence fee for the same facilities - CC and BH are not taking money out of anybodies pocket so why the hostility? We all use the same amount of water! Does anyone what to introduce more tiers in the licences to try and price people off living on boats permanently?

 

Jamie

 

Please do not class CCer's and bridge hoppers as the same. A CCer has a legal standing, a bridge hopper does not

 

See post #65

Edited September 15, 2005 by Maffi

[gaggle]

Gaggle,

 

have a pint and a chat with other members of the club.

 

Liam - A very proud member of a 44 year old boating club.

31169[/snapback]

 

yes liam i can imagine the chats about bridge hoppers and cc,s and cyclists and fisherman and walkers in fact anyone with the damn nerve to exist,ah hello commodore would you like a drink.

 

does your club have a commodore or an admiral? and does he get whistled aboard when he turns up at the club.peep peep

[gaggle]

Gaggle

 

You really have a complex about other people and how they view you.

 

The boating fraternity are, like it or not, members of a 'club' administered by BW. There are rules, every society has them. To stay as a member of any club you have to comply with the rules. Those that don't find that their membership will not be renewed.

 

Take motoring, owning a motor car is not a right it's a privilege. It is a legal requirement that your car has TAX, MOT and insurance; also that you have a valid licence to drive on the public road. If you fail to provide these documents when asked then the courts will take away the privilege.

 

What is so different about boating? Obtaining a licence is dependent on the boater complying with the rules. Failure to do so could result in the licence being refused.

 

It's all very well saying "I want to do it my way", but one has to accept the inevitability of the bailiffs turning up one day and dropping ones boat on a low loader.

 

There are some people that are 'superior' (as you put it) simply because they know the rules of the 'club and are prepared to abide by them, as opposed to those who know the rules and do everything in their power to avoid them. In the UK we all drive on the left hand side of the road. It's one of the 'rules'. What mayhem would be caused if some decided that they would drive on the right.

 

Boating is really no different. Everyone should abide by the rules (it's a condition of the licence). That way everyone knows what to expect from each other. Your independence and personal style comes from how you paint your boat and how the fit out is done. By all means we can remonstrate with BW about the composition of the rules, but until they are changed the rules is the rules.

 

A CCer playing by the rules will be on a progressive journey around the system. If someone is not on a progressive journey around the system he isn't a CCer, it really is as simple as that. Other terms are 'invented' to categorise them. Be it bridge hoppers, towpath trash or more accurately fraudsters.

 

The minimum requirement of a CCer is to cruise at least once every 14 days to the next parish, given that that could be achieved in about two hours he should only need to travel for 52 hours a year. At the end of the year one can reasonably be expect him to be 52 hours cruising time from his starting point (very simplistic but you get my drift). Sitting on the same spot for six months means that the declaration he made when he bought his licence, that he was going to cruise the system, was fraudulent. Fraud is a criminal offence. So yes maybe some people are thought of as second class citizens, but merely because they are in effect 'criminals'.

31183[/snapback]

to be honest maffi i coulnt care abou what anybody thinks of me,i am the best fella i have ever met as for the rules i fully intend to abide by them ,bw rules that is.

[DHutch]

yes liam i can imagine the chats about bridge hoppers and cc,s and cyclists and fisherman and walkers in fact anyone with the damn nerve to exist,ah hello commodore would you like a drink.

Gaggle, where the hell do you get off!

 

- You said yourself you've never been a member of a club, so come you think all of a sudden that you know everything about every club on the canal!

- For a start, every club will diffeent!

 

 

Daniel

[gaggle]

i do walk some canals dan and i do talk to people.

thats how i know the one i was at had a commodore,as soon as i heard that i vacated the scene dude,left in a cloud of smoke,not my scene.

but i had the chance to listen to some chatter before i left

[Maffi]

to be honest maffi i coulnt care abou what anybody thinks of me,i am the best fella i have ever met as for the rules i fully intend to abide by them ,bw rules that is.

 

I'm pleased for you. It must be a real joy shaving in the morning.

[gaggle]

o lord its hard to be humble and perfect in every way

and i know i get better each day

to know me is to love me

i,m to lovely for this thread,to lovely for this thread

 

i me i me

[Maffi]

o lord its hard to be humble and perfect in every way

and i know i get better each day

to know me is to love me

i,m to lovely for this thread,to lovely for this thread

 

i me  i me

 

 

I'm not too sure my sunglasses are strong enough for me to wallow in your glow without ruining a perfectly good pair of inset silicon lenses.

[David Schweizer]

I have no intention of joining this debate, having already said all I wish to say about the Continuous Cruiser/Bridge Hopper issue. But please keep it up, lads. It is very interesting to observe how so many opinions seem to be based upon very little evidence or experience.

[Carrie]

I hope you have a wonderful time on your new boat, gaggle. I look forward to waving hello next year, from mine