Blacking v Anti-foul

[falklandfred]

When we bought our boat a couple of years ago it had recently been given a nice shiny (?) new coat of anti-fouling (Broads). It is, of course, now due for a bit of maintenance. Few boats on the canals seem to be anti-fouled and most are blacked. I suspect that there is a reason for this, and would welcome advice and opinion!

Moving on from that, where should I go from here when the boat comes out at the end of the summer? If sticking with anti-fouling is the way ahead, how do you prepare the boat and slap it on. If blacking is the way ahead, does thin involve removing all the old anti-foul, and if so how easy is this?

Thanks for all your advice to a bit of a newbie!

[charles123]

I favour anti foul to blacking although I will be in the minority. They are both paints, both protect the steelwork equally well, blacking is a little cheaper to buy

 

Anti foul does not hurt fish or the environment

 

I don't like the unsightly weed growth that you get almost immediately you put the boat back in the water after blacking and I like the idea of being able to see the condition of the painted hull when the water is clear which you cant do with blacking because its covered in weed

 

I am no expert on whether you simply paint over blacking to apply anti foul but do know you dont need to remove it before re coating

 

Charles

[Tony Brooks]

I favour anti foul to blacking although I will be in the minority. They are both paints, both protect the steelwork equally well, blacking is a little cheaper to buy

 

Anti foul does not hurt fish or the environment

 

I don't like the unsightly weed growth that you get almost immediately you put the boat back in the water after blacking and I like the idea of being able to see the condition of the painted hull when the water is clear which you cant do with blacking because its covered in weed

 

I am no expert on whether you simply paint over blacking to apply anti foul but do know you dont need to remove it before re coating

 

Charles

 

Now, why do you think the weeds do not grow with anti-fouling? Could it be to do with chemicals leaching from it or chemicals it contains. I would be very had pressed to assert that Broads anti-fouling does not leach poisons.

 

It would be very ill advised to use copper based anti-fouling on a steel boat because of copper's position on the galvanic series and I doubt if inland boat go fast enough for the eroding anti-fouling to work as intended.

 

If the blacking is bitumen based I expect the solvents in anti-fouling might attack it, but tar based ones might resist. However I decided to stick with blacking and a scrubbing brush if the fouling got too unsightly.

[Naughty Cal]

Now, why do you think the weeds do not grow with anti-fouling? Could it be to do with chemicals leaching from it or chemicals it contains. I would be very had pressed to assert that Broads anti-fouling does not leach poisons.

 

It would be very ill advised to use copper based anti-fouling on a steel boat because of copper's position on the galvanic series and I doubt if inland boat go fast enough for the eroding anti-fouling to work as intended.

 

If the blacking is bitumen based I expect the solvents in anti-fouling might attack it, but tar based ones might resist. However I decided to stick with blacking and a scrubbing brush if the fouling got too unsightly.

 

Modern anti foul paints are water soluble and simply shed a microscopic layer constantly hence no weed growth. The older types were very toxic to the environment the modern ones not so.

[GUMPY]

Anti foul dust is VERY toxic. Do not be tempted to dry sand it.

 

I have just done our yacht its easy, although I wouldn't want to do the barge the same way.

Pressure wash off all the gunk

Then using one of the green pad scourers and loads of water rub down the hull

Let it dry and then coat with AF

 

To remove the AF completely you will need to get the hull blasted

 

AF is way more expensive than blacking I suspect that's why blacking is used on the canals.

[carlt]

Modern anti foul paints are water soluble and simply shed a microscopic layer constantly hence no weed growth. The older types were very toxic to the environment the modern ones not so.

That depends entirely on what type of anti-foul you are using.

 

The type you are referring to, "eroding" antifouls are not designed to shed, to prevent weed growth but to shed to present a fresh layer of biocide, to the wildlife waiting to attach itself to your hull.

 

"Hard" antifouls leech the biocide through the whole layer rather than shedding. This type is more suited to drying moorings, because it doesn't "wipe" off, like eroding. It is also recommended for sports cruisers and fast yachts because the speed through the water strips the eroding type away in no time so I'm surprised your boat has the eroding type, phylis.

 

The only type that uses no biocide and is, therefore, environmentally friendly (at the end user stage) are the "slippery" types, usually containing "Teflon" or, at the very top end, silicon carbides. These are only used by the serious racing folk and the environmentally sound bit falls down when you take into account the horribles used to produce PTFE.

 

Aside from this, though, anyone who thinks that no using antifoul is "greener" has to take into account the possibility of transporting unwanted foreign organisms on your weedy beard.

[Naughty Cal]

That depends entirely on what type of anti-foul you are using.

 

The type you are referring to, "eroding" antifouls are not designed to shed, to prevent weed growth but to shed to present a fresh layer of biocide, to the wildlife waiting to attach itself to your hull.

 

"Hard" antifouls leech the biocide through the whole layer rather than shedding. This type is more suited to drying moorings, because it doesn't "wipe" off, like eroding. It is also recommended for sports cruisers and fast yachts because the speed through the water strips the eroding type away in no time so I'm surprised your boat has the eroding type, phylis.

 

The only type that uses no biocide and is, therefore, environmentally friendly (at the end user stage) are the "slippery" types, usually containing "Teflon" or, at the very top end, silicon carbides. These are only used by the serious racing folk and the environmentally sound bit falls down when you take into account the horribles used to produce PTFE.

 

Aside from this, though, anyone who thinks that no using antifoul is "greener" has to take into account the possibility of transporting unwanted foreign organisms on your weedy beard.

 

So true. Theres nothing worse than a green beard.

 

A good scrub along the waterline every now and then also works wonders for the beard.

 

Just to note i have just been on exactly the same website as you for exactly the same information even word for word.

[carlt]

Just to note i have just been on exactly the same website as you for exactly the same information even word for word.

S'funny, I was reading it from Practical Boat Owner but the info is still the same, regardless of source, though, so I must be right!

Edited April 9, 2009 by carlt

[Naughty Cal]

S'funny, I was reading it from Practical Boat Owner.

 

Tis on their website as well then

[carlt]

Tis on their website as well then

Why wouldn't it be on every web site that provides info about anti-foul?

 

Except Copper-coat's of course, which is a bit different and I plan to invest in, next year. Ridiculously expensive but is supposed to last 10 years and doesn't (in theory) leech (leach?) so is supposed to be greener.

[falklandfred]

Thanks for the feedback so far. It currently has Blakes Broad anti-foul, which is copper-based. I am told that International Waterways Plus (a hard scrubbable anti-foul designed specifically for inland waterways) might be better all round - for the boat and environment. Has anyone used this? Does anyone know if it can be overpainted onto a copper-based without any barrier treatment?

[Reptile Smile]

For the OP - the complexities of what you can overpaint on to what are arse-clenchingly confusing. The only possible solution is to ring the company of the paint you wish apply and ask their advice. Even binding undercoats aren't always suitable when overpainting anti-fouling from one manufacturer over anothers. What you absolutely can't do is paint anti foul over blacking or blacking over anti foul.

 

In either case, you would need a shed-load of mates, the European beer lake, and a lot of sandpaper and dust masks...

 

** Posted at same time. I have Waterways Plus, and it's great where I am - Bristol Avon. You MUST ring International for further advice and very helpful they are too...

Edited April 9, 2009 by Reptile Smile

[Smelly]

I thought the logic behind using blacking was that it's more impact resistant. On the cut we're much more prone to knocks and scrapes than on the river/offshore where you're less likely to be grazing bridges and locksides.

 

edit... I've always wondered whether the red/blue coats I see at the waterline of NB's is AF.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Smelly

[Pie Eater]

A lot of our club members swear by Primocon followed by anti foul.

 

I think that we will be removing all the bitumen and trying this method when we come out of the water in June.

 

Steve

[Brin Morris]

A lot of our club members swear by Primocon followed by anti foul.

 

I think that we will be removing all the bitumen and trying this method when we come out of the water in June.

 

Steve

 

I think I may book a day off to come and watch this. If you take your boat out every 2 years the blacking will be fine. Methinks you are trying to join the shiny boat brigade society of our club.

Brin

[Pie Eater]

Brin

Next time you go past have a look at the bitumen - last done June 2007. Also bring some overalls in June!

Steve

[Pie Eater]

Managed to jet wash the boat and get the first coat of bitumen/aluminium mix on yesterday. No sign of Brin though.

 

Steve

[Pie Eater]

Boat now back in the water. 3 coats of bitumen/aluminium mix followed by 2 coats of anti foul applied below the waterline at one coat per day as per advice given.

 

2 coats of bitumen above the waterline and 2 coats of black gloss on the gunnels.

 

Also managed to finish painting the roof - project left over from last year.

 

Due to the hot weather most of the painting has been done early morning before Brin gets out of bed.

 

Steve

[Brin Morris]

Boat now back in the water. 3 coats of bitumen/aluminium mix followed by 2 coats of anti foul applied below the waterline at one coat per day as per advice given.

 

2 coats of bitumen above the waterline and 2 coats of black gloss on the gunnels.

 

Also managed to finish painting the roof - project left over from last year.

 

Due to the hot weather most of the painting has been done early morning before Brin gets out of bed.

 

Steve

Unfortunatley Steve I have had to be camping in Wales enjoying the wonderful sunshine, Hard choice watch you work or lazing about. Back in work for 2 days then cruising with you lot at weekend its a hard life. I have also been trying to finish the wooden signs from the orders at the stall during the rally. see you saturday