QUE SERA SERA- WALKING WEEKEND

[churchward]

It looks like they really need to find the boat and fast.

 

How sad and frustrating for the owners. I agree with your last sentance the sooner the boat can be found the better.

 

I don't really think it helps to rub salt into the wound for them and pick over every detail and shortcoming or mistake they may have made. I am sure they can do that for themselves and it won't advance the cause in terms of actually finding and retrieving the boat. I think it would be better for our commentary to be restricted to search efforts and hopefully finding the boat.

[Rogerh]

How sad and frustrating for the owners. I agree with your last sentance the sooner the boat can be found the better.

 

I don't really think it helps to rub salt into the wound for them and pick over every detail and shortcoming or mistake they may have made. I am sure they can do that for themselves and it won't advance the cause in terms of actually finding and retrieving the boat. I think it would be better for our commentary to be restricted to search efforts and hopefully finding the boat.

 

I didn't really mean it to seem like that, I meant to highlight the need to find the boat.

[gaggle]

If you have the expertise, and can find the time to reply to a perceived insult, why can't you give the details that people are crying out for?

 

indeedy.

[Dutch]

Sorry but the more i read this and the other thread ,the less it all adds up.

[Ex- Member]

Following the link to the Distinctive Charters website from the blog, it appears to be further bad news for the owners as the site states

 

We at Distinctive Charters, would like it to be known that the hire transaction was carried out without the knowledge of Distinctive Charters.

 

Distinctive Charters pride themselves in carrying out in-depth identity checks of all hirers. In this instance the owners failed miserably, releasing the boat, relying on verbal information and receiving what turned out to be a dud cheque. Further more the insurers of the boat have decided that since the owners bypassed Distinctive Charters with this particular booking they will not cover the loss.

 

It looks like they really need to find the boat and fast.

 

So an important question still remains IMO, how was payment made for the boat ?????????? did they have or produce ID

Sorry but the more i read this and the other thread ,the less it all adds up.

 

Agreed

[gaggle]

So an important question still remains IMO, how was payment made for the boat ?????????? did they have or produce ID

 

 

Agreed

 

 

did i not just read on this site it was paid with a dud cheque ?

[Ex- Member]

did i not just read on this site it was paid with a dud cheque ?

 

If so sorry I completely missed that. I read something about false details, but didnt recall anything on payment method. It is a lot to keep up with LOL

[cheshire~rose]

One thread would definitely be helpful, I've lost count but I believe it's about four now?

 

 

I agree and there was one thread which I entered a clicky to just a while before you replied - Please try and remember that some of the people responding are not that au fait with computers let alone the forum and so they may not be able to find the original thread and start a new one instead. That was one reason why I suggested that I be contact so either I can update the thread myself or I can text another forum member to do so if I am unable to do so.

[/color]

The guy in America [sorry, can't find that thread] put together an extremely good collation of the info available at the time, what happened to it and has it been updated?

 

 

I repeat, A daily update, regardless of progress, would also help to maintain that interest and keep it at the top of the list.

 

[/color]

 

 

It seems people persist in responding to this thread dispite my efforts to keep the other one with all the relevant info at the top

 

 

For those who are computer literate, getting on-line is very easy. For those who are not comfortable with computers it is extremely hard. Just becase they are available does not mean that EVERYONE can do it easily.

 

Thank you - I am glad I am not the only person here who can remember what it was like before we even knew what www meant! I do wonder Why do we have to question the fact that someone is unable to easily access the internet?

[cheshire~rose]

If you have the expertise, and can find the time to reply to a perceived insult, why can't you give the details that people are crying out for?

 

 

I think we should also remember that there are several different people logging on under the same username.

 

Carole & Tony do not have internet access at all and it is only them who have the relevant information we require.

 

Their daughter, Zoe, has occasional internet access and is likely to be the one reading this thread and passing messages back to her Mum & Dad when she gets time. Zoe does not have the information we require and can only request it the same as I can.

 

I hope Zoe has no objection to me stating that she herself is going through a potentially traumatic time in her life and for medical reasons she is very likely to become emotional over fairly minor things (I know - I am a woman!) I cannot start to imagine how it must feel to know her Dad is recovering from an illness and they have lost their pride and joy and she is very likely to feel powerless to assist in any way.

 

Yes - I am fully aware that the type of response given does not help their cause but please let us remember that we are all human and can we honestly say there have not been occasions when we have been under severe stress when we have not reacted in the way we really should have done?

 

If anyone has doubts about the validity of this case then that is entirely up to them. You do not have to do anything at all. I would politely request that the speculation is kept tp yourselves and in the fullness of time we will find out whether there were any grounds for it or not.

[Hairy-Neil]

It seems people persist in responding to this thread dispite my efforts to keep the other one with all the relevant info at the top

 

In the absence of Carlt I will say isn't that what forums are all about.....

[alan_fincher]

Rose,

 

Are you, via your contact with the owners, able to verify that the statements made by "Distinctive Charters" on their web site are true, please ?

 

Namely that the owners did this hiring without the knowledge of "Distinctive Charters", and that the insurers are therefore saying the boat is not covered.

 

I'm not sure I fully understand the ramifications as to why it would have been covered if "hired" through DC, but not otherwise. Unless they were still relying on DC's insurance, rather than their own, perhaps ?

 

Can you also explain why no more information has been given about recent sightings, who the informants were, and how reliable the information is believed to be, please ?

 

It seems highly pertinent, particularly as people are clearly struggling to see how the boat could be so close to it's home base, without a single independent or "member" sighting.

 

Many thanks.

Edited March 24, 2009 by alan_fincher

[mayalld]

I think we should also remember that there are several different people logging on under the same username.

 

Carole & Tony do not have internet access at all and it is only them who have the relevant information we require.

 

Their daughter, Zoe, has occasional internet access and is likely to be the one reading this thread and passing messages back to her Mum & Dad when she gets time. Zoe does not have the information we require and can only request it the same as I can.

 

I hope Zoe has no objection to me stating that she herself is going through a potentially traumatic time in her life and for medical reasons she is very likely to become emotional over fairly minor things (I know - I am a woman!) I cannot start to imagine how it must feel to know her Dad is recovering from an illness and they have lost their pride and joy and she is very likely to feel powerless to assist in any way.

 

Yes - I am fully aware that the type of response given does not help their cause but please let us remember that we are all human and can we honestly say there have not been occasions when we have been under severe stress when we have not reacted in the way we really should have done?

 

If anyone has doubts about the validity of this case then that is entirely up to them. You do not have to do anything at all. I would politely request that the speculation is kept tp yourselves and in the fullness of time we will find out whether there were any grounds for it or not.

 

May I offer a suggestion.

 

It is clear that for whatever reason, some of Zoe's responses are not encouraging other boaters to offer assistance.

 

I think we can all appreciate that this is not an easy time for the family, and as such they can and will be cut a lot of slack.

 

However, there does need to be a reciprocal understanding that they are asking people to devote a good deal of time and effort (and in many cases to incur some degree of expense) in helping them out here. There needs to be an understanding that people are very ready to put this effort in, but that this is not a right that they have, and it is incumbent on them to provide the people who might help them with as much information as possible, so that nobody is running round on fruitless searches with half the information missing.

 

It is concerning that (perhaps because it makes the family look a bit silly), information about the hire was witheld

 

Please, Zoe, tell everything that there is to tell. Don't hold back anything either because of embarassment or because you don't think it important.

[cheshire~rose]

Rose,

 

Are you, via your contact with the owners, able to verify that the statements made by "Distinctive Charters" on their web site are true, please ?

 

Namely that the owners did this hiring without the knowledge of "Distinctive Charters", and that the insurers are therefore saying the boat is not covered.

 

I'm not sure I fully understand the ramifications as to why it would have been covered if "hired" through DC, but not otherwise. Unless they were relying on DC's insurance, rather than their own, perhaps ?

 

I can only ask them the same as you can if you think that the statement made by distinctive charters makes any difference? The boat is still missing - If this was my boat and it was fully insured I would still prefer to get her back in one piece without the need to claim on the insurance. If anything the possibility that there may not be valid cover means the need to locate the boat and soon is even greater

 

Can you also explain why no more information has been given about recent sightings, who the informants were, and how relia

 

Many thanks.

 

What more information is required? I thought the information I gave was quite comprehensive. Sadly the exact location of the last sighting was not very specific but when information is relayed through the towpath telegraph it sometimes loses a bit along the way.

 

As I have stated elsewhere - Although I took the initiative to call Carole and volunteered to help update the forum this does not preventy anyone else from calling her to speak to her. She has published her number and is more than happy to speak to anyone who might be trying to assist in locating the boat so if anyone feels there is a piece of information that they need which has not already been posted then do not feel you have to wait for me - Carole is available on the phone and will happily answer your questions.

[churchward]

I didn't really mean it to seem like that, I meant to highlight the need to find the boat.

 

I probably should have worded it differently I wasn't trying to highlight or comment on your post other than the sentiment that we do need to keep on looking for the boat.

 

I find all the other speculation that some folk on here get into and all up-tight about akin to rubber necking at a road accident, it helps no one. I fail to see for instance we I or anyone needs to know if they were paid with a dud cheque. Unless anyone can offer help in tracing the people involved by that evidence then it is just being nosy.

 

The best thing we can do is be the eyes and ears out on the cut and leave the detective stuff to the professionals.

 

I find all the speculation about what isn't and is being said and what that means or could mean including suggestions of foul play on the part of the owners very distasteful. Let's show some understanding and sympathy with the predicament and what the owners are going through. I think it is a very sad reflection of the people involved in such comments. I would far rather assume the honesty of the owners and find the boat even if I was to be disappointed later which I doubt.

[alan_fincher]

I can only ask them the same as you can if you think that the statement made by distinctive charters makes any difference? The boat is still missing - If this was my boat and it was fully insured I would still prefer to get her back in one piece without the need to claim on the insurance. If anything the possibility that there may not be valid cover means the need to locate the boat and soon is even greater

Rose,

 

Being totally blunt, (I don't know how not to in this case), some have I think come to the view that this might have been some kind of insurance scam by the owners.

 

If it could be totally established that the boat is not covered by insurance, that might cause people to revisit their thoughts on that.

 

What more information is required? I thought the information I gave was quite comprehensive. Sadly the exact location of the last sighting was not very specific but when information is relayed through the towpath telegraph it sometimes loses a bit along the way.

Well what has been asked by several people about who the sources of the information were, to what extent it has been verified, and (frankly) can we trust those supplying the information.

 

I think a lot of people closer than I am might well be prepared to turn out and help, but as someone else has just posted, will not give up their time if they think it has little chance of adding anything. Learning things after the event, like a sighting was actually 2 days before it was implied it was, would be an example as to why it's hard for people to make much headway on this.

 

Difficult I know - the owners clearly have their problems, and allowances need to be made, but equally, unless things are stepped up at least one gear, it's very hard to envisage it being resolved, unfortunately.

[mayalld]

I find all the other speculation that some folk on here get into and all up-tight about akin to rubber necking at a road accident, it helps no one. I fail to see for instance we I or anyone needs to know if they were paid with a dud cheque. Unless anyone can offer help in tracing the people involved by that evidence then it is just being nosy.

 

The best thing we can do is be the eyes and ears out on the cut and leave the detective stuff to the professionals.

 

I find all the speculation about what isn't and is being said and what that means or could mean including suggestions of foul play on the part of the owners very distasteful. Let's show some understanding and sympathy with the predicament and what the owners are going through. I think it is a very sad reflection of the people involved in such comments. I would far rather assume the honesty of the owners and find the boat even if I was to be disappointed later which I doubt.

 

I don't think that it is nosy to ask for as much information as possible. If we know that a dud cheque is involved, it may well be that they have used other dud cheques either before or after, and that somebody may see just such a dud cheque pinned up over the till in a canalside pub.

 

Indeed, I still haven't seen an answer to the question "what do you mean by a dud cheque" was the cheque stolen, or are we talking insufficient funds.

 

You suggest leaving the detective stuff to the professionals. What do you imagine trying to work out where the boat might be, based on a series of (possibly accurate, possibly not) sightings is, if not detective work. The police are not going to put huge amounts of resource into this. As far as they are concerned, it is no different to a car theft, and the owner should claim on their insurance (or not if the insurance isn't valid).

 

Suggestions that the owners may be involved in a scam are indeed unpleasant. I certainly tend towards an assumption of honesty, but that assumption can become strained if the owners are less than open about all the facts.

 

One could equally complain that the people on the boat are being branded thieves based only on the account of the owners.

[churchward]

I don't think that it is nosy to ask for as much information as possible. If we know that a dud cheque is involved, it may well be that they have used other dud cheques either before or after, and that somebody may see just such a dud cheque pinned up over the till in a canalside pub.

 

Indeed, I still haven't seen an answer to the question "what do you mean by a dud cheque" was the cheque stolen, or are we talking insufficient funds.

 

You suggest leaving the detective stuff to the professionals. What do you imagine trying to work out where the boat might be, based on a series of (possibly accurate, possibly not) sightings is, if not detective work. The police are not going to put huge amounts of resource into this. As far as they are concerned, it is no different to a car theft, and the owner should claim on their insurance (or not if the insurance isn't valid).

 

Suggestions that the owners may be involved in a scam are indeed unpleasant. I certainly tend towards an assumption of honesty, but that assumption can become strained if the owners are less than open about all the facts.

 

One could equally complain that the people on the boat are being branded thieves based only on the account of the owners.

 

You know what I meant I am not going to argue the point with you I have made my feelings known. In the end it still only comes down to one thing, we need to look for the boat and a listing of the sightings and when is very useful or indeed a negative statement of "I looked on the so-and-so canal but found nothing" plus when that was can be equally useful.

 

All other stuff is superfluous and speculation which is unhelpful. Personally I am branding no one with anything. The boat needs to be found what happens next is not known.

Edited March 24, 2009 by churchward

[cheshire~rose]

Clearly I do not seem to be either asking all the questions that people want answers to or able to supply all the information.

 

I have supplied all the information I have at present and I am awaiting a response from Carole for more.

 

If anyone wishes to contact Carole themselves and can get the information faster than me then please feel free to do so but if you would kindly ensure you update the forum so it will save all of us asking the same questions again

[Ex- Member]

I find all the other speculation that some folk on here get into and all up-tight about akin to rubber necking at a road accident, it helps no one. I fail to see for instance we I or anyone needs to know if they were paid with a dud cheque. Unless anyone can offer help in tracing the people involved by that evidence then it is just being nosy.

 

It is very pertinant indeed, if it's possible to ascertian the couple hiring this boat their motives, that then can lead to assess what might be happening to the boat.

 

For instance if they have bothered to arrange false ID and paid in cash, then they are clearly expecting a return for their investment. This would lead me to the ussumption this was pre planned, and if so I would be concentrating on crane hire and transport companies, as pre planned this boat would have been off the water in days, or the boat being stripped of anything of value. They may have even broken into a boat and using the false ID stolen from another boater.

 

If the false id's were recently stolen and If they paid by duff cheque, then this might just be someone chancing a free holiday following a burglary they recently comitted, and just dump the boat when they've had their fun, or could still be the above.

 

The fact that this boat hasn't been located leads me to suspect this was a planned theft. The likelyhood is that this boat is in some yard somewhere having it's identity changed, so searching the canal system could be pointless.

 

The false ID used could also belong to another boater.

 

At the end of the day a clue is a clue, if it catches someones attention, then it could lead to recovering the boat.

 

Being nosy is what the police do to solve crime.

[johnjo]

It is very pertinant indeed, if it's possible to ascertian the couple hiring this boat their motives, that then can lead to assess what might be happening to the boat.

 

For instance if they have bothered to arrange false ID and paid in cash, then they are clearly expecting a return for their investment. This would lead me to the ussumption this was pre planned, and if so I would be concentrating on crane hire and transport companies, as pre planned this boat would have been off the water in days, or the boat being stripped of anything of value. They may have even broken into a boat and using the false ID stolen from another boater.

 

If the false id's were recently stolen and If they paid by duff cheque, then this might just be someone chancing a free holiday following a burglary they recently comitted, and just dump the boat when they've had their fun, or could still be the above.

 

The fact that this boat hasn't been located leads me to suspect this was a planned theft. The likelyhood is that this boat is in some yard somewhere having it's identity changed, so searching the canal system could be pointless.

 

The false ID used could also belong to another boater.

 

At the end of the day a clue is a clue, if it catches someones attention, then it could lead to recovering the boat.

 

Being nosy is what the police do to solve crime.

 

 

Agree completely, also someone pointed out that they may be paying with dud cheques elsewhere on the system and this information could help paint a paper trail, especially if a disgruntled recipient has posted it above his till or where-ever, and someone on this forum spots it.

 

Come on please, what should be a simple task of posting ALL the information ASAP and that information being complete and up front and sod any embarrassment is not happening, or is not being perceived to be happening.

ALL & ANY information is important however trivial it might seem to the owners, if they want everyone to participate in finding their boat they must part with it and get it put on here, NOW.

Christ! This seems bloody hard work trying to get this through to them.

Edited March 24, 2009 by johnjo

[Ex- Member]

Agree completely, also someone pointed out that they may be paying with dud cheques elswhere on the system and this information could help paint a paper trail, especially if a disgruntled recipient has posted it above his till or where-ever, and someone on this forum spots it.

 

Yeah good point John, didn't think of that one

[mayalld]

You know what I meant I am not going to argue the point with you I have made my feelings known. In the end it still only comes down to one thing, we need to look for the boat and a listing of the sightings and when is very useful or indeed a negative statement of "I looked on the so-and-so canal but found nothing" plus when that was can be equally useful.

 

All other stuff is superfluous and speculation which is unhelpful. Personally I am branding no one with anything. The boat needs to be found what happens next is not known.

 

All other stuff is superfluous and speculation as far as YOU are concerned. That's your choice if you don't want to know, and you want to get out there and search without any idea of where the search needs to be concentrated.

 

Personally, whilst I am always willing to help if it proves possible, I have limited time. I'm not going to walk the Ashton and Huddersfield Narrow canals this weekend looking, because based on all information to date the boat won't be there. If there is information that suggests that there is some chance it will be there, I'll put the time in.

 

You say that you don't want to argue the point with me. OK, fair enough, don't argue the point, but don't expect your point to go unchallenged.

[Ex- Member]

All other stuff is superfluous and speculation which is unhelpful. Personally I am branding no one with anything. The boat needs to be found what happens next is not known.

 

"The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in despair"

 

I am branding no one with anything

 

Really LOL

 

akin to rubber necking at a road accident

 

just being nosy.

 

OOOOHHHH LOL

[churchward]

All other stuff is superfluous and speculation as far as YOU are concerned. That's your choice if you don't want to know, and you want to get out there and search without any idea of where the search needs to be concentrated.

 

Personally, whilst I am always willing to help if it proves possible, I have limited time. I'm not going to walk the Ashton and Huddersfield Narrow canals this weekend looking, because based on all information to date the boat won't be there. If there is information that suggests that there is some chance it will be there, I'll put the time in.

 

You say that you don't want to argue the point with me. OK, fair enough, don't argue the point, but don't expect your point to go unchallenged.

 

If you read my post instead of trying to make your own point you will see that I stated we do need to know where and when the sightings were (or indeed where it isn't) I am not suggesting we blindly go around the system. I am saying that other information is much less important and salacious speculation unhelpful and probably hurtful to the owners. There will be many people out and about doing their own thing day by day and as a side effect there is no harm in keeping the boat in mind as you go.

 

This will be my last post on the matter so I guess you can say what you like but this conversation too won't be helping. If folk want to feed off the misery and play detective whining on about dud cheques etc then so be it.

[Liam]

Due to the multiple threads running on the missing boat, Que Sera Sera, I am going to close this one.

 

Please use the other thread currently running here... CLICK