Selecting a bow thruster

[Chris J W]

Is someone actually going to try and answer the OPs question?

[Billypownall]

I was trying to answer your "old sea dog" criticisms of my reply to the OP, where you said to the effect that I had no experience of bow thrusters, whereas you have been at sea and on the canals for 60 years so knew things I could not possibly know. I did not say they were completely useless, merely that I thought they were a foolish thing to rely on. I do have sympathy with the OP if he has a difficult boat and an awkward mooring location. and did actually make suggestions about hydraulic ones. I also suggested that a well ballasted boat made a lot of difference to steerability.

 

You yourself said your first thruster had problems, hence my point that if you rely on it you could find yourself up the creek without a paddle when it failed. It is not that I and the various crew who worked for us just "managed" to get by without a thruster; I just cannot recall any time when I could not have done what I was doing without one. Certainly your comment that another contributor must have need of one at least twice a day does astonish me though. The car improvements you mention do all improve the safety and ease of driving - a thruster would have made no difference to my boating at all, and only minimal difference on the very different vessel and in very different situations where we now do our boating.

 

I do agree with the fact that a boat is equipped with a thruster does not mean the helmsman is any less competEnt than myself, but when I see it being used as a replacement for the rudder and throttle, which is quite often, then the conclusion is inescapable.

 

I guess maybe you're right when you suggest it is a genuine aid when people get a bit feeble, and it does allow them to continue boating into their dotage.

 

OK Satellite?

Best thing about your postings Tam is the name of your boat. Wonderful place for sailing,I have had many holidays there over the years and love it. Heh I think you are mellowing a bit .However I'll just have one more tilt at you. A bow thruster may not have made any difference to your boating but it has to mine and many other owners who are competent in every way. Furthermore I never suggested another poster would NEED one twice a day. I suggested one may be USEFUL twice a day. I would think in a full days cruising thats about how often ours is used. I am going to say for one last time (thank goodness you say !!) that a bow thruster is a really useful bit of kit and if you can afford one go for it. Even if you dont use it very often you will not regret it and in any case your boat will sell easier if you come to part with it. Best wishes Tam let's be friends albeit with a different opinion!!

[ChrisPy]

I note you're "From: working in Abu Dhabi"

 

You'll be telling us next about how the camel drivers fit them to all the ships of the desert.

no, but no doubt we'll need bow thrusters when the Dubai Canal opens up.

[Gibbo]

It's quite simple - if you want a bowthruster then get one, if you don't want one then don't get one, but there's really no need to criticise those who choose the former.

 

Spot on.

 

It happens all the time on forums. On all subjects. On all types of equipment. There are those who recount their own experiences, good or bad. There are those who say why they wouldn't have one, or those who say why they would like one. There are those in the field professionally who can usually give a better overall picture etc etc etc

 

Then there are those who don't have one, aggressively and argumentatively shout about why anyone who does have one is an idiot, and try to convince us that we should all move back into the dark ages where they live. These are the people who, it appears to me, are jealous of those that do have them and simply can't afford one themselves.

 

A certain poster on here with his cheap plastic caravan bog is a good example. Clearly he can't afford a proper toilet and it annoys him that others can

 

Gibbo

[alan_fincher]

It's quite simple - if you want a bowthruster then get one, if you don't want one then don't get one, but there's really no need to criticise those who choose the former.

 

 

Spot on.

 

It happens all the time on forums. On all subjects. On all types of equipment. There are those who recount their own experiences, good or bad. There are those who say why they wouldn't have one, or those who say why they would like one. There are those in the field professionally who can usually give a better overall picture etc etc etc

 

Then there are those who don't have one, aggressively and argumentatively shout about why anyone who does have one is an idiot, and try to convince us that we should all move back into the dark ages where they live. These are the people who, it appears to me, are jealous of those that do have them and simply can't afford one themselves.

 

A certain poster on here with his cheap plastic caravan bog is a good example. Clearly he can't afford a proper toilet and it annoys him that others can

 

Gibbo

 

Strange.....

 

I also fully support Mike's statement which you quote, and t which you say "spot on".

 

I'm completely comfortable with people having bow thrusters if they feel they want them, or not having them, if they don't.

 

Same with microwaves, washing machines, macerator loos, etc, within reason, (although I do struggle with induction hobs, tumble driers, and other such power hungry devices on the average narrow boat).

 

I think it's one hell of a leap of logic to say that because someone has an approach to something in boating that you consider too minimalist, that they must be sat there consumed by envy of your "better" arrangements.

 

You'd probably laugh out loud at the simplicity of electrical arrangements on out boat, but I find it insulting to suggest that I may in some way be extracting less pleasure from it than you are from yours.

 

Sadly though, I doubt much of the debate has been of much use to the original poster. It's a shame that people didn't pick up more on the costs and complexities of trying to retrofit a thruster to an existing boat. My gut feel, (based on zero knowledge!), is that if the boat isn't already fitted with at least the tube, it might just prove impracticable to do anything, other than at unreasonable cost.

[Gibbo]

Strange.....

 

I also fully support Mike's statement which you quote, and t which you say "spot on".

 

I'm completely comfortable with people having bow thrusters if they feel they want them, or not having them, if they don't.

 

Same with microwaves, washing machines, macerator loos, etc, within reason, (although I do struggle with induction hobs, tumble driers, and other such power hungry devices on the average narrow boat).

 

I think it's one hell of a leap of logic to say that because someone has an approach to something in boating that you consider too minimalist, that they must be sat there consumed by envy of your "better" arrangements.

 

But I didn't say "minimalists" were consumed by envy. You've added that bit yourself.

 

I was referring to the "minimalists" who aggressively and argumentatively scream and shout that anyone who has the more advanced equipment is an idiot, and that there is no need for it, and that the minimalist equipment and way of boating is inherently much better. That type of person is, in my viewpoint, consumed by envy. Otherwise why yell and shout so much about it?

 

They are two completely different statements.

 

Gibbo

[alan_fincher]

But I didn't say "minimalists" were consumed by envy. You've added that bit yourself.

 

I was referring to the "minimalists" who aggressively and argumentatively scream and shout that anyone who has the more advanced equipment is an idiot, and that there is no need for it, and that the minimalist equipment and way of boating is inherently much better. That type of person is, in my viewpoint, consumed by envy. Otherwise why yell and shout so much about it?

 

They are two completely different statements.

 

Gibbo

Fair enough,

 

I've re-read your posting, and can see how I've misinterpreted what you have said.

 

I did think that in the past where someone has just firmly defended minimalist solutions, (rather than attacking those who want none minimalist solutions), you have still accused them of envy. However, without trawling back through a load of old posts, I'm prepared to admit my memory might be defective on that to.

 

Please accept my apologies for any misunderstanding.

[Timleech]

Sadly though, I doubt much of the debate has been of much use to the original poster. It's a shame that people didn't pick up more on the costs and complexities of trying to retrofit a thruster to an existing boat. My gut feel, (based on zero knowledge!), is that if the boat isn't already fitted with at least the tube, it might just prove impracticable to do anything, other than at unreasonable cost.

 

 

I have retrofitted several thrusters in the past, before they became commonplace in new builds. Of course retrofitting will be more expensive than incorporating into a new build, but how expensive or practical it is will vary greatly from one boat to another.

 

I also removed and blanked off one bow thruster last year, the owner had abandoned it as a waste of time.

 

For myself, I generally smile to myself when I hear the early morning mating call of the lesser spotted bow thruster, I'm in the camp with those who see them on narrowboats as little more than toys, most of us like our toys of one sort or another, though a bt isn't a toy on which I would spend my own money

 

Tim

Edited March 21, 2009 by Timleech

[Speedwheel]

Not all of us have a steerer's mate and some of us have fairly large boats.

 

Well if you do not have a steers mate then it is even more important that you have good control over your boat.

I have a 71 foot boat with no gearbox and no instantly available reverse which I regularly move on my own.

 

OK Satellite?

[Nickhlx]

The builder who built ours says he uses the 50 / 50 rule of thumb...

 

If it's over 50 feet and the owners are more than 50 years old, he recommends a bow thruster... made me smile !! Still I suppose he is thinking of 25 years hence !!

 

Nick

[ChrisPy]

The builder who built ours says he uses the 50 / 50 rule of thumb...

 

If it's over 50 feet and the owners are more than 50 years old, he recommends a bow thruster... made me smile !! Still I suppose he is thinking of 25 years hence !!

 

Nick

well I certainly qualify.

is there a 60/60 rule?

[Ex- Member]

Your latest effort makes little more sense than your first one. My first dozen or so cars did not have power assisted steering,anti lock and power brakes, central locking, automatic choke and so on.

 

I cant see the relation, the items you mention are either safety improvements, security improvements or economy improvements.

 

 

A bow thruster is a very expensive addition to a boat to assist manouvreability that any competant helmsman can achieve without it's addition, so it in reality is a gimmick, boys toy etc

[Chris J W]

Well, the OP wants one regardless of the blinkered nay-sayers, so how about someone actually attempts to answer his question properly?

[Speedwheel]

It was an interesting point someone made about would working boatmen have used them if they had been available.

 

I think on the long distance boats probably not. A 70 foot boat with a deep draught would not really have needed one. However I could see that the smaller tugs may well have made use them. The little boats going in and out of basins, up short arms and shunting boats arounds yards would have needed alot of maneuverability. Smaller and shallower boats are also much more difficult to reverse as they tend to weave about due to them having less bite on the water. Guess we shall never know but that would be my thoughts.

 

r.e. 50/50 rule - I do like that

 

Well, the OP wants one regardless of the blinkered nay-sayers, so how about someone actually attempts to answer his question properly?

 

Why blinkered?

Edited March 21, 2009 by Satellite

[Keeping Up]

Well, the OP wants one regardless of the blinkered nay-sayers, so how about someone actually attempts to answer his question properly?

Maybe there's nobody here who can answer his question ... ?

[Speedwheel]

Vetus or Volvo Penta are usually the favoured ones. Is it electric or hydraulic that is required? (I would guess electric)

Size - about 4-6hp (whatever that is is kgf)

 

A bow thruster is a very expensive addition to a boat to assist manouvreability that any competant helmsman can achieve without it's addition, so it in reality is a gimmick, boys toy etc

 

Nicely put!! I think you have summed it up perfectly

Edited March 21, 2009 by Satellite

[Tam & Di]

Well, the OP wants one regardless of the blinkered nay-sayers, so how about someone actually attempts to answer his question properly?

 

I have not checked out any of the "clickies" that people gave, but I though he had been given quite a bit of advice if he does want to go ahead with one. He got several suggestions on electric types available and comment on fitting one to an existing boat. He got rule-of-thumb comment on the size that might suit, but also comment from a person vehemently in favour of them that they did not necessarily move a boat against the force of a wind.

 

He also got warnings that they are never a substitute for good boatmanship, and that a well ballasted boat was more easily controllable than a light one.

 

I think he got very good value for money. No-one can make his decision for him; it's up to him to pick the bones out of the thread.

[Chris J W]

I think he got very good value for money. No-one can make his decision for him; it's up to him to pick the bones out of the thread.

 

Fair enough, but he shouldn't HAVE to pick out the bones of thread.

 

 

(I think I'd better not post much more today - I appear to be in a really bad mood, so sorry if I appeared a bit snarky!)

[Timleech]

Fair enough, but he shouldn't HAVE to pick out the bones of thread.

 

Surely threads like this are all about picking out the bones?

There can be no one simple answer to his question.

 

Tim

 

edited to remove double posting

Edited March 21, 2009 by Timleech

[Gordon Chesterman]

Hello all - I'm the bloke who posted the original question 94 posts ago - I'm busy picking bones, thanks for supplying me with a knacker's yard full of them!

Based on all your advice (and THANK YOU), I'm going to DELAY getting a bow thruster. I asked the question for two reasons - I'm moving to a new (much cheaper) marina that is very awkward to get OUT of - (getting in is fine) and secondly, the boat is out of the water next month being painted - I thought I'd save the costs of another lift-out by getting the bow thruster fitted at the same time.

I'll let you all know how many fibreglass boats I clobber over the coming months.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

PS Don't 'mud weights' simply dissolve when immersed in water?

[Speedwheel]

You have to use a special type of mud! Should you not be able to find any of the right sort, get some regular mud and wrap it up in a plastic bag. Seal the top with a couple of cable ties and presto. I believe that these days you can also buy synthetic mud which will do the job.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Satellite

[Gordon Chesterman]

Good Lord, far too risky - I'd be the laughing stock of this forum with my bow thruster, synthetic mud weights, a cruiser stern, Japanese engine and a casette toilet!

Gordon

[Speedwheel]

No - you saved it at the last minute with the cassette toilet. Had you have said pumpout then you would have been in trouble.

[Night Hawk]

Back to BTs....we acquired one when we bought our ex-hire boat last year - only it's been disconnected.....now that we've got a little spare cash, I'm thinking of getting it reinstalled...not 'cause I feel I need to even though it's a tight squeeze into our mooring...but that all our neighbours have one and demonstrate theirs quite regularly!

 

But since my fenders are on their last legs, I might treat myself to a few of the instead....

[kingslock]

a vetus 55kgf is just the ticket for the job if the boat has an integral water tank it can be mouted to the cabin side getting it as far under the water as possible, a usefull web site is www.vetusretail.co.uk the kits on there! if the boats out of the water its a two day job speaking from first hand experiance.

 

We've got a new place to moor (saving £800 per year!) but it is impossible to get in and out without sinking half a dozen tupperwares.

We've decided a bow thruster might be a good idea.

Can anyone offer advice on the best make and what sort of size/power do I need?

Our boat is a Liverpool cruiser 45 ft long.

Many thanks,

Gordon in Ely, Cambs

a vetus 55kgf will do the job just fine if your boat has an integral water tank you can mount the tube just towards the cabin side of the tank to get the tube as far under the water as possible, instalation would take two days start to finish aprox!

i speak from first had experiance use full web site is www.vetusretail.co.uk the kit is on there!

Best of look.