Are Most Wide Beams Live-Aboards ?

[alan_fincher]

OH asked me this morning "are all wide-beams live-aboards ?.

 

Quickly thinking of forum members, I could only instantly come up with a couple that were not, and in the most obvious case the owner is working abroad.

 

So who has a wide-beam that they use just as a leisure / holiday boat, but don't actually live on ?

 

(Just curious, that's all..... )

[Guest]

OH asked me this morning "are all wide-beams live-aboards ?.

 

Quickly thinking of forum members, I could only instantly come up with a couple that were not, and in the most obvious case the owner is working abroad.

 

So who has a wide-beam that they use just as a leisure / holiday boat, but don't actually live on ?

 

(Just curious, that's all..... )

Most wide beam barge type boats on't Leeds and Liverpool appear to be residential. There are exceptions of course, but they lend themselves to residential use.

[Neil TNC]

OH asked me this morning "are all wide-beams live-aboards ?.

 

Quickly thinking of forum members, I could only instantly come up with a couple that were not, and in the most obvious case the owner is working abroad.

 

So who has a wide-beam that they use just as a leisure / holiday boat, but don't actually live on ?

 

(Just curious, that's all..... )

 

I think you will get a better idea if you differentiated between wide beam narrowboat or barge.

It does now appear that fitted wide-beam narrowboats are all aimed at and bought by liveaboards...and for that matter, most of the recent build barges I have looked at.

People/builders/brokers do seem to be trying to attach a premium to all wide beam craft, re the fact that many are sold with a "residential mooring", in most cases this being unofficial.

 

My idea of a barge is a craft that will actually steer, be quite happy going across the English Channel and be set up/have bits in the correct places so two people (or one in an emergency) can work it through large locks. Also capable of being lived on full time, but not the prime function.

One day I might actually find one that I want to buy!

[Roger Gunkel]

We bought our widebeam to liveaboard as we wanted to live on a boat, which we could move away from the mooring when we wanted a few days break, but had no wish to cruise the canal system. We decided there was no substitute for space in a permanent home, so the widebeam for us, was the obvious answer.

 

Most people who live aboard but want to cruise widely, would have no choice but to buy a narrowboat, so I think the answer to your question "Are most widebeams liveaboards?" is probably Yes!

 

Roger

[alan_fincher]

I think you will get a better idea if you differentiated between wide beam narrowboat or barge.

Fair comment!

 

As soon as I posted, I was expecting Carl to pop up and say I don't live on my "wide-beam".

 

Or Phylis......

 

Or anybody with a converted working boat that is an inch or two over seven feet.....

 

But as we can have wide-beam barge style narrowboats (apparently), I'm not sure the distinctions are that clear cut.

 

Surely wide-beam narrowboat is an oxymoron anyway ?

 

Alan

[Roger Gunkel]

Fair comment!

 

As soon as I posted, I was expecting Carl to pop up and say I don't live on my "wide-beam".

 

Or Phylis......

 

Or anybody with a converted working boat that is an inch or two over seven feet.....

 

But as we can have wide-beam barge style narrowboats (apparently), I'm not sure the distinctions are that clear cut.

 

Surely wide-beam narrowboat is an oxymoron anyway ?

 

Alan

 

I took your description 'widebeam' in what I assumed to be the general meaning of your post, as a wide version of a narrowboat. Along the lines of the ones owned by Blackrose, myself, Tom & Sophie etc, genenerally with a beam of 10-13ft.

 

I suppose anything over 6' 10" could be considered a widebeam from a canals viewpoint, but I suppose I would never see my motorsailer as a widebeam or Carl's lifeboat as such, to me they are 'boats', and I don't recall the term widebeam being used away from the canals.

 

All down to interpretation I suppose

 

Roger

[carlt]

As soon as I posted, I was expecting Carl to pop up and say I don't live on my "wide-beam".

Like Roger says, the distinction is peculiar to the canals (and probably, even, just the Southern ones).

 

I have a broad beam boat (I've always known wide beams as greater than 14') but one third of its habitable space is taken up by the engine room so it would be more awkward to live on, than a narrow boat.

[Naughty Cal]

As above. Mine is broader but dont think of it as wide beam. Its just a short fat boat. Wouldnt want to live on it full time either.

[Tam & Di]

My idea of a barge is a craft that will actually steer, be quite happy going across the English Channel and be set up/have bits in the correct places so two people (or one in an emergency) can work it through large locks. Also capable of being lived on full time, but not the prime function.

 

It's amazing how many modern barges/widebeams are built and sold as being suitable for continental cruising but do NOT have their working gear in the right place or of the right type to facilitate this. The most common example is boats with bulwarks so the crew is forced to feed a line through a hawse hole when working a lock. This is fine for a boat when it is moored and on tidal waters where the water level will change, but is totally inappropriate for working through continental locks. Here you work from the boat to the bank, not as in the UK where someone is generally off with a line. It is also very important for a boat to have pairs of bollards fore and aft rather than just a single one, but it's probably too off-topic (and generally anoraky) to go into the whys and wherefores of that here.

[Steilsteven]

It's amazing how many modern barges/widebeams are built and sold as being suitable for continental cruising but do NOT have their working gear in the right place or of the right type to facilitate this. The most common example is boats with bulwarks so the crew is forced to feed a line through a hawse hole when working a lock. This is fine for a boat when it is moored and on tidal waters where the water level will change, but is totally inappropriate for working through continental locks. Here you work from the boat to the bank, not as in the UK where someone is generally off with a line. It is also very important for a boat to have pairs of bollards fore and aft rather than just a single one, but it's probably too off-topic (and generally anoraky) to go into the whys and wherefores of that here.

 

Oh go on Tam.

 

Keith.

[Neil TNC]

Oh go on Tam.

 

Keith.

 

Yeah...we will back you up!

[Tam & Di]

Oh go on Tam.

 

Keith.

 

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhh .......... all right then, but you were warned. It's probably really something for Boat Handling rather than living afloat. It's quite difficult to explain a practical operation like this in words, but I'll do my best.

 

Most continental ex-working barges, especially those built as a motor vessel (like a Steilsteven or Luxemotor) rather than with sail, have a pair of bollards at the fore end and another at the stern - the latter ones more or less at the door to the wheelhouse, and the fore end ones are well clear of whatever small bulwark might exist. Generally both pairs will be where the hull is still straight, before it turns in for the bow and stern. They will each have a pin or arm running fore and aft fairly high up (NOT joined together like we have seen on some repro barges), and another single one slightly smaller and lower pointing out at about 45 degrees. These latter ones keep the initial turns of the line from jamming.

 

Although there are obviously personal variations the basic "proper" way used by commercial mariniers is as they enter a lock they will have a crew person on the fore end who has picked up the top of the coil of line; this has an eye about 1m long when 'closed' but the crew has opened it into a loop, with some additional line behind it.

 

For ease of explanation imagine a 40m "Freycinet" size lock with a 39m barge (péniche). When the boat is almost in, the crew will casually throw the eye of the line onto a suitable bollard on the lockside. They will then take the line in front of the foremost of the pair of bollards on the péniche and then take 3 or 4 turns clockwise around the second one. The foremost one is then acting as a fairlead. With 8" bollards this means there is about 24" of line in contact for each turn. 4 turns gives some 8' of line and the friction of this is ample to allow the crew to gently bring the boat to a complete halt, even when loaded. When the boat is stopped the crew will finish the turns with a half hitch on the top of the bollard or one around each of the 'arms' in turn. The person on the motor will have eased the power as they came into the lock and probably gone out of gear to lose a bit more way as the crew came closer to the lockside bollard they were going to put the line on. As the boat is coming to a halt the motor will be put back in head gear so it is driving against the fore end line which now has its half hitch to hold it. It is left in head gear as the lock fills (or empties), and as the gates open the crew can simply take the line off the boat's bollards and flick the eye off the lockside one. This can all be done with the boat in gear, as the turns are still holding it steady at that point.

 

Right??

 

This will hopefully make clear why the line cannot possibly be worked if it has to be fed through a hawse hole somewhere. Working with lines is obviously a potentially dangerous operation, and generally it will be the wife who takes the péniche into the locks and her husband who goes up to the fore end. It can be done in a similar manner from the stern if a boat is worked one-handed, but not to be recommended for the inexperienced. The marinier has to get the speed dead right to leave the wheel and check the boat to a halt.

 

The Irish IWA reviewed our training video and commented that this style of working was almost certainly used in Ireland as well, as the working craft generally have pairs of bollards similarly positioned.

[Steilsteven]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh .......... all right then, but you were warned. It's probably really something for Boat Handling rather than living afloat. It's quite difficult to explain a practical operation like this in words, but I'll do my best.

 

Most continental ex-working barges, especially those built as a motor vessel (like a Steilsteven or Luxemotor) rather than with sail, have a pair of bollards at the fore end and another at the stern - the latter ones more or less at the door to the wheelhouse, and the fore end ones are well clear of whatever small bulwark might exist. Generally both pairs will be where the hull is still straight, before it turns in for the bow and stern. They will each have a pin or arm running fore and aft fairly high up (NOT joined together like we have seen on some repro barges), and another single one slightly smaller and lower pointing out at about 45 degrees. These latter ones keep the initial turns of the line from jamming.

 

Although there are obviously personal variations the basic "proper" way used by commercial mariniers is as they enter a lock they will have a crew person on the fore end who has picked up the top of the coil of line; this has an eye about 1m long when 'closed' but the crew has opened it into a loop, with some additional line behind it.

 

For ease of explanation imagine a 40m "Freycinet" size lock with a 39m barge (péniche). When the boat is almost in, the crew will casually throw the eye of the line onto a suitable bollard on the lockside. They will then take the line in front of the foremost of the pair of bollards on the péniche and then take 3 or 4 turns clockwise around the second one. The foremost one is then acting as a fairlead. With 8" bollards this means there is about 24" of line in contact for each turn. 4 turns gives some 8' of line and the friction of this is ample to allow the crew to gently bring the boat to a complete halt, even when loaded. When the boat is stopped the crew will finish the turns with a half hitch on the top of the bollard or one around each of the 'arms' in turn. The person on the motor will have eased the power as they came into the lock and probably gone out of gear to lose a bit more way as the crew came closer to the lockside bollard they were going to put the line on. As the boat is coming to a halt the motor will be put back in head gear so it is driving against the fore end line which now has its half hitch to hold it. It is left in head gear as the lock fills (or empties), and as the gates open the crew can simply take the line off the boat's bollards and flick the eye off the lockside one. This can all be done with the boat in gear, as the turns are still holding it steady at that point.

 

Right??

 

This will hopefully make clear why the line cannot possibly be worked if it has to be fed through a hawse hole somewhere. Working with lines is obviously a potentially dangerous operation, and generally it will be the wife who takes the péniche into the locks and her husband who goes up to the fore end. It can be done in a similar manner from the stern if a boat is worked one-handed, but not to be recommended for the inexperienced. The marinier has to get the speed dead right to leave the wheel and check the boat to a halt.

 

The Irish IWA reviewed our training video and commented that this style of working was almost certainly used in Ireland as well, as the working craft generally have pairs of bollards similarly positioned.

 

Thanks Tam, interesting stuff, now I know what they're for.

 

Keith.

[Neil TNC]

The Irish IWA reviewed our training video and commented that this style of working was almost certainly used in Ireland as well, as the working craft generally have pairs of bollards similarly positioned.

 

John Wheatcroft soon had me doing it the proper way!

 

ummmm....well the classic M barges had a pair at the bow, but a bit wideley spaced and only a single at the stern.

 

 

 

GCCC M 45 is the most original M barge, still unconverted and with a Bollinder. AFAIK the bytrader barges were similarly equiped.

[Tam & Di]

the classic M barges had a pair at the bow, but a bit wideley spaced and only a single at the stern.

 

Would still work though. I think I can see a couple of pins right at the top that the half hitch can be made on to, projecting fore and aft. The flattened mushroom shaped top would act to deter the line from jumping off as well. Can't see why else they would have two bollards, and especially as they are so far apart. With the motor left in head gear you only need the one line when you work through locks.

 

Many modern repro barge builders (and unknowing owners) assume they are used as they are used on ships - that they are for making figure of eight knots over and over on them. Just need to watch any commercial boat going through a lock to see the error of this (assuming they are able to see and understand what they are looking at)

Edited February 2, 2009 by Tam & Di

[blackrose]

Surely wide-beam narrowboat is an oxymoron anyway ?

 

It is, but it's actually an abbreviation of 'narrowboat style wide-beam' which is less of an oxymoron.

 

Contrary to what one contributor has written, these boats are actually barges too, although I admit there is a large distinction between them and the more traditional type of barge - both new build and original.

Edited February 17, 2009 by blackrose