batteries

[denboy]

bit of a dilemma i have the opportunity to get some brand new batteries cheap cheap only thing is they are starter batteries am i on a looser if i use them as domestics as my old ones are getting a bit tired

[Keeping Up]

Yes you'd be a loser.

 

Starter batteries just aren't built to survive the depth of discharge that they'd get if you used them for domestic purposes. They would die very quickly.

[alan_fincher]

Interesting though that others, (Gibbo possibly ?), have claimed that many batteries sold as "domestics" are little more than starter batteries with carrying handles. I seem to recall someone, (maybe Gibbo again ??), having actually broken into some to prove that they were not structurally very different from a starter battery.

 

If I've remembered that wrong, I'm more than happy to be corrected, though.

[jake_crew]

Starter batteries just aren't built to survive the depth of discharge that they'd get if you used them for domestic purposes. They would die very quickly.

 

True but maybe denboy would prefer buying new, cheap batteries every year, as opposed to expensive, top quality batteries every few years.

Its the same dilemma at this time of year with car batteries.

[Gibbo]

bit of a dilemma i have the opportunity to get some brand new batteries cheap cheap only thing is they are starter batteries am i on a looser if i use them as domestics as my old ones are getting a bit tired

 

Hmmmmm (another can or worms and arguments being opened).

 

In theory they won't last long at all as engine start batteries aren't designed for that sort of use.

 

However the reality is that engine start batteries aren't quite what they used to be as the demands of the vehicle market have meant they have to be able to provide reasonable power for reasonable periods which older starter batteries couldn't.

 

Further, what are currently sold as "leisure" batteries are no different internally than what are currently sold as engine start batteries. "Leisure" batteries are not deep cycle batteries. True deep cycle batteries are a completely different bag of fish.

 

The batteries that most of us buy and use without problems really are no different to what are currently sold as engine start batteries PROVIDED that they are not small ones. Engine start batteries designed for say a 1 litre petrol engine wouldn't last10 minutes.

 

Gibbo

[Gary Peacock]

This is always a source of amusement.

 

We have a local boat club nearby and quite often folk will pop in asking for prices for domestic batteries we quote a price and then we have to scrape them up off the floor.

 

Later at the club they will smugly tell us they got them for half the price from Honest John Batteries down the road, when asked what they are they will be anything but what we quoted for so the half price bit is rubbish.

 

Within about six months they will arrive with the boat saying that they think the alternator is iffy because the new batteries aren't holding their charge, we quite happily test the alternator and the batteries informing them the alternator is fine but the batteries have had it when handing over the bill.

 

The customer then storms off to grip Honest John over these bloody rubbish batteries while we have a big giggle!

 

I do tend to consider batteries to be a consumable that if cared for carefully will last longer but you still do need suitable ones to begin with.

 

We use AGM batteries with the correct charge setup to suit but the real reason is that they will survive the 12 months warranty even if abused (Which I am sorry to say a lot of customers do!) while in the past other types didn't. I know people that have had much cheaper batteries last many years but the owners have loved and cherished them to achieve it!

[denboy]

I believe the one ive been offered are 2 x 160 ah and 2 180 ah £40 +vat for the 4

Edited December 12, 2008 by denboy

[RLWP]

I believe the one ive been offered are 2 x 160 ah and 2 180 ah £40 +vat for the 4

 

Buy them. If they are starter batteries and don't like being domestics then they will expire eventually, but at that price who cares!

 

Richard

[Gary Peacock]

I believe the one ive been offered are 2 x 160 ah and 2 180 ah £40 +vat for the 4

 

Well at that price!

 

It could be worth the investment and a big dash of TLC to find out if they are any good!

[denboy]

thats the way i was looking at it if they last a year i would be happy

[chris w]

However the reality is that engine start batteries aren't quite what they used to be as the demands of the vehicle market have meant they have to be able to provide reasonable power for reasonable periods which older starter batteries couldn't.

Gibbo

But once the car engine is started its alternator provides all the power (unless the alternator is grossly undersized).

 

Chris

[Gibbo]

But once the car engine is started its alternator provides all the power (unless the alternator is grossly undersized).

 

Chris

 

You're missing the point. 10 years ago the engine was shut down and the battery did nowt. Now you shut the engine down, and the computers carry on pulling power for the next 30 minutes whilst they p*ss around with various systems. Mrs Gibbo's car is the worst I've ever seen for this. Shut the engine down, lock the car and then watch it. Depending upon the temperature and humidy it starts pissing aorund with various shutters and valves in the ventilation system. 5 minutes of stepper motors and solenoids going. There is a whole lot of stuff that cars do these days when the engine isn't running that didn't happen 10 years ago.

 

Next time you're bored stick an ammeter in your battery lead and lock your car. Wait for the immobiliser to set itself and watch in amazement at the continual current drain.

 

We fought to get the standby current drain of a device down from 25mA to 10mA because we thought anything higher was excessive for something permanently powered on a vehicle. The ambulance builder said "That won't make any difference, we've got a permanent 250mA drain from all the other factory fitted sh*t.

 

Batteries have had to change to deal with this.

 

Gibbo

[Justme]

Plus all the ICE (in car entertainment) they drink power

 

Justme

[MikeV]

Plus all the ICE (in car entertainment) they drink power

 

Justme

I always disconnect my car battery if I'm going to leave it for more than a week after once coming back after two weeks to a flat battery. I've got one of those little solar chargers but would have to mess about wiring it into the battery and my current car has a quick release connector on the battery so it's easier to just disconnect it. //Mike

[Keeping Up]

I always disconnect my car battery if I'm going to leave it for more than a week after once coming back after two weeks to a flat battery. I've got one of those little solar chargers but would have to mess about wiring it into the battery and my current car has a quick release connector on the battery so it's easier to just disconnect it. //Mike

If I did that it would disable the alarm system. I wonder what the insurance company would say if the car was stolen.

[MoominPapa]

Now you shut the engine down, and the computers carry on pulling power for the next 30 minutes whilst they p*ss around with various systems. Mrs Gibbo's car is the worst I've ever seen for this. Shut the engine down, lock the car and then watch it. Depending upon the temperature and humidy it starts pissing aorund with various shutters and valves in the ventilation system. 5 minutes of stepper motors and solenoids going.

Mine runs the fuel pump (electric, in the tank) for a couple of seconds every few minutes after its shut down. Since the pump is quite loud, it made me jump each time for a long time before I got used to it. I assume it's to move new, cool, fuel into the pump as it cools, to avoid it gumming up, but I don't know.

 

MP.

[John Orentas]

My car is a bit odd like that, pumps, black boxes and gizmo's all over the place, I have given up trying top make sense of it all.. Every time a warning light comes on (screen wash low last time) it frightens me to death.

 

Edit:

Without wanting to mention the 'A' word it is worth noting that alternators and charging systems in general are not really designed for the purpose we generally put them too.. In most motor vehicles it is assumed that the engine is constantly running when the systems are required, the only requirement therefore is that the alternator does little more than to balance the electrical load and they can do that to perfection, very rarely are they required to charge a significantly discharged battery.

Edited December 13, 2008 by John Orentas

[FORTUNATA]

In Canal Boat mag there was an article that recommended using a battery charger periodically on Domestic batteries as many alternators only yield 14 volts. Just via the alternator, many battery banks only get 80 per cent charged at most. I figure perhaps you could get cheaper deep cycle batteries from somewhere like Halfords. I'm actually hoping some time in the future to use either solar or wind power to keep my batteries better charged but that's a long way off.

Sounds like in the case described here the people used the starter battery, flattened it a few times and it sulfated around the plates.

 

This is always a source of amusement.

 

We have a local boat club nearby and quite often folk will pop in asking for prices for domestic batteries we quote a price and then we have to scrape them up off the floor.

 

Later at the club they will smugly tell us they got them for half the price from Honest John Batteries down the road, when asked what they are they will be anything but what we quoted for so the half price bit is rubbish.

 

Within about six months they will arrive with the boat saying that they think the alternator is iffy because the new batteries aren't holding their charge, we quite happily test the alternator and the batteries informing them the alternator is fine but the batteries have had it when handing over the bill.

 

The customer then storms off to grip Honest John over these bloody rubbish batteries while we have a big giggle!

 

I do tend to consider batteries to be a consumable that if cared for carefully will last longer but you still do need suitable ones to begin with.

 

We use AGM batteries with the correct charge setup to suit but the real reason is that they will survive the 12 months warranty even if abused (Which I am sorry to say a lot of customers do!) while in the past other types didn't. I know people that have had much cheaper batteries last many years but the owners have loved and cherished them to achieve it!

[Keeping Up]

I figure perhaps you could get cheaper deep cycle batteries from somewhere like Halfords.

Yes you can. Their refund service, two months later, is good too.

[Matthew Dowson]

battery life

 

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat...0&fpart=all

 

Whole load of info on this yachting forum

[magpie patrick]

I believe the one ive been offered are 2 x 160 ah and 2 180 ah £40 +vat for the 4

 

 

£40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My three new ones cost the thick end of £300 and they were 110ah each: they've got a five year warranty but if you do the sums then if yours last one season you've done as well!!!! And the worst that can happen is you've lost £40...

[Malarky]

I've found 180ah to be better than the cheeper domestic style batteries! If you add a solar panel to the installation it will make sure you usually have some power going in, which will save them being left totally flat for any long period and so keep them in reasonable order. You can get an adequate panel for about £100 which should last for years.

[denboy]

I've found 180ah to be better than the cheeper domestic style batteries! If you add a solar panel to the installation it will make sure you usually have some power going in, which will save them being left totally flat for any long period and so keep them in reasonable order. You can get an adequate panel for about £100 which should last for years.

Thanks for that I have 2 largish solar panels and live aboard with a adverc baty charger on 24/7

[FORTUNATA]

Adverc was an improvement on the original TWC regulator - the first smart alternator. Maybe you're referring to an Adverc regulator? As for the TWC I'm not sure they can be effective during the kind of low speeds seen on canals.

I'm going to take the batteries off my boat and charge them up to capacity. There's a good article in last issue's Canal Boat mag on general battery care which includes wiping down with a light solution of sodium bicarbonate, checking electrolyte levels, greeasing terminals and periodically charging via battery chargers. I notice my batteries are just touching the red zone although I do sometimes run the engine while the boat's on dry dock.

 

 

Thanks for that I have 2 largish solar panels and live aboard with a adverc baty charger on 24/7

[chris w]

I don't have a positive view of waterways magazines' technical advice in general. Altough they sometimes have a useful hint or two, to those of us who happen to have a deep level of technical understanding, they make errors more often than they get things right which, to my mind, is a dangerous thing.

 

Chris