Hurricane heater

[Gary Peacock]

After fitting a number of Hurricane Heaters manufactured by International Thermal Research without problems we now seem to be having problem with the H2 versions.

 

It seems that these new units are very sensitive about the voltage required to start up, now it's common knowledge that all heaters of this nature are fairly voltage dependent but it seems the newer Hurricane's are not happy at anything even slightly bellow 12v so if you have a boat that is largely AC electrically based this can cause problems because the domestic battery bank being continually under load from the inverter will tend to hover around the 12v mark unfortunately this causes the Hurricane heater to detect under voltage and shut down.

 

So at the moment it looks like we are going to have to fit AC power supplies to three existing installations and yet again look for a more suitable marine unit.

 

It seems that the marine heating market is very much a game of if it works it works, if it doesn't it's not our problem!

Edited November 25, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[blackrose]

After fitting a number of Hurricane Heaters manufactured by International Thermal Research without problems we now seem to be having problem with the H2 versions.

 

It seems that these new units are very sensitive about the voltage required to start up, now it's common knowledge that all heaters of this nature are fairly voltage dependent but it seems the newer Hurricane's are not happy at anything even slightly bellow 12v so if you have a boat that is largely AC electrically based this can cause problems because the domestic battery bank being continually under load from the inverter will tend to hover around the 12v mark unfortunately this causes the Hurricane heater to detect under voltage and shut down.

 

So at the moment it looks like we are going to have to fit AC power supplies to three existing installations and yet again look for a more suitable marine unit.

 

It seems that the marine heating market is very much a game of if it works it works, if it doesn't it's not our problem!

 

Don't tell me the much heralded Hurricane is shite too! Oh well another one bites the dust.

[Gary Peacock]

Don't tell me the much heralded Hurricane is shite too! Oh well another one bites the dust.

 

Well we never had any problems with the original version but now have three in a row of the newer version exhibiting the same problem.

 

If you run them off a battery/bank with no other load attached they run fine but if the voltage dips in the slightest because of any other load then they shut down.

 

The version 1 of the unit claimed to have a low voltage threshold of 10.5v the newer unit now claims 11v but we are having problems around 12V or just under measured at the unit even with very heavy cabling to prevent volt drop.

 

We are going to try using an AC PSU to power the units because all the boats concerned are largely AC based anyway, but it's the same old story from the distributor of the units that we are the only installer having problems so it's down to us to sort it out attitude.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[bottle]

I do not believe that any of these heaters are sh**e, it is the fact that the makers/sellers are selling into a market where they are not suitable.

 

When reading the small print, they are not suitable for use in boats unless certain criteria are met and the main criteria is the type of fuel.

 

The fuel we buy is not suitable, therefore these heaters are not suitable.

 

Having said that I am having an Erbaspacher fitted.

[Gary Peacock]

I suspect we might be returning to Eberspacher we in reality had very little problems with them other than their own largely self generated bad publicity regarding the fuel issues.

 

The next two boats have systems based around standard domestic central heating units so we have a space to choose a new direction to go in the future.

 

There is a gap in the market for a true marine based 24/7 domestic heating boiler that will run off the available fuels.

 

It's a shame that the Hurricane heater as now shown it's Achilles heel because it had seemed very promising.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[blackrose]

I do not believe that any of these heaters are sh**e, it is the fact that the makers/sellers are selling into a market where they are not suitable.

 

When reading the small print, they are not suitable for use in boats unless certain criteria are met and the main criteria is the type of fuel.

 

The fuel we buy is not suitable, therefore these heaters are not suitable.

 

Having said that I am having an Erbaspacher fitted.

 

Except that a voltage issue isn't fuel related.

 

I have an Erberspacher too and that has a high startup load, but once it's going that reduces significantly. If the Hurricane is shutting down midway though it's cycle simply because another load is put on the batteries then that isn't good.

 

The bottom line is that since these products are being targeted at the boat market by the manufacturers (who should know full well the quality of fuel used and variability of battery voltages), if the products are not up to the job then surely they're not fit for purpose (i.e. they're shite! )

[Eeyore]

After fitting a number of Hurricane Heaters manufactured by International Thermal Research without problems we now seem to be having problem with the H2 versions.

 

It seems that these new units are very sensitive about the voltage required to start up, now it's common knowledge that all heaters of this nature are fairly voltage dependent but it seems the newer Hurricane's are not happy at anything even slightly bellow 12v so if you have a boat that is largely AC electrically based this can cause problems because the domestic battery bank being continually under load from the inverter will tend to hover around the 12v mark unfortunately this causes the Hurricane heater to detect under voltage and shut down.

 

So at the moment it looks like we are going to have to fit AC power supplies to three existing installations and yet again look for a more suitable marine unit.

 

It seems that the marine heating market is very much a game of if it works it works, if it doesn't it's not our problem!

Hello Gary

Have you concidered a stabalised DC to DC converter?

The one I have is by "Amperor" 10 - 28 volt input with a 12.6 volt output at 70 watts (5.6 amps).

Of course Victron, Mastervolt etc also produce sonmething similar.

The advantage is that it can be inserted into the existing wiring with very little effort.

Steve

[bottle]

True voltage is not connected to the fuel but in the specification it will give certain requirements for that voltage, if the boat cannot supply the voltage then it is not the heaters fault but the boats.

 

Again these heaters are not sh**e, they work very well if the specifications are complied with, we as boaters do not fully comply with that specification at all times that is why they fail.

 

I agree with this (below)

 

The bottom line is that since these products are being targeted at the boat market by the manufacturers (who should know full well the quality of fuel used and variability of battery voltages), if the products are not up to the job then surely they're not fit for purpose

[Gary Peacock]

Hello Gary

Have you concidered a stabalised DC to DC converter?

The one I have is by "Amperor" 10 - 28 volt input with a 12.6 volt output at 70 watts (5.6 amps).

Of course Victron, Mastervolt etc also produce sonmething similar.

The advantage is that it can be inserted into the existing wiring with very little effort.

Steve

 

That would be the ideal but the unit would need be rated around 15-20 amps so at that kind of rating DC to DC converters seem a bit rare.

[david and julie]

There is a gap in the market for a true marine based 24/7 domestic heating boiler that will run off the available fuels.

Gary have you had any problems with the Heritage oil boilers/cookers.

[Gary Peacock]

Gary have you had any problems with the Heritage oil boilers/cookers.

 

No they have all behaved so far and I have two more to fit shortly.

 

The only complication with them is paperwork related, the units need to be commissioned by a OFTEC certified technician unfortunately OFTEC changed their rules and and prevented their members from commissioning work carried out by non members!

 

The work around is that you now have to get a OFTEC member to service a brand new installation in lieu of asking for it to be commissioned.

[david and julie]

The work around is that you now have to get a OFTEC member to service a brand new installation in lieu of asking for it to be commissioned.

Why am I not suprised.

 

Still must look on the brightside, at least you can do your own electrics and fit the windows.

[Eeyore]

That would be the ideal but the unit would need be rated around 15-20 amps so at that kind of rating DC to DC converters seem a bit rare.

The obvious model is the Mastervolt "Magic 12/12-20" DC to DC convertor.

This is fine in the context of a new built, but seriously expensive as a cure for the other three you mention.

(Off topic - this one also acts as a three stage DC to DC charger - suitable for bow thruster batteries?)

Steve

[Gibbo]

Well we never had any problems with the original version but now have three in a row of the newer version exhibiting the same problem.

 

If you run them off a battery/bank with no other load attached they run fine but if the voltage dips in the slightest because of any other load then they shut down.

 

The version 1 of the unit claimed to have a low voltage threshold of 10.5v the newer unit now claims 11v but we are having problems around 12V or just under measured at the unit even with very heavy cabling to prevent volt drop.

 

We are going to try using an AC PSU to power the units because all the boats concerned are largely AC based anyway, but it's the same old story from the distributor of the units that we are the only installer having problems so it's down to us to sort it out attitude.

 

There is one phrase to describe this..... "sh*t engineering".

 

Where possible, anything designed to run from a 12 volt vehicle/boat battery system should be designed to happily run down to at least 10 volts and preferably lower to give a safety margin. Quite simply because 10 volts is commonly seen occasionally when heavy loads are switched on.

 

Anything we build will happily run down to 9 volts or even less. If someone here designed something that cut out at 10.5 volts he'd be told to go away and design it properly.

 

These heaters are deisgned to run form a battery system. Can you imagine the uproar if your car engine management shut down everytime you flashed the headlights?

 

Gibbo

[stuart]

I suspect theres a small micro-computer tucked inside the heater and it senses the low voltage and raises an alarm/shutdown cycle. I'd be surprised if hurricane couldnt do a software update on these to change the sensitivity.

 

Unless of course theres a more fundamental limit/reason why they need 11v + to run

[PaddingtonBear]

Yet another job for Moominpapa and ermintrude?

[ditchcrawler]

I suspect theres a small micro-computer tucked inside the heater and it senses the low voltage and raises an alarm/shutdown cycle. I'd be surprised if hurricane couldnt do a software update on these to change the sensitivity.

 

Unless of course theres a more fundamental limit/reason why they need 11v + to run

Wasn't that the problem with the Wallis cookers when they first came out?

[Gary Peacock]

Wasn't that the problem with the Wallis cookers when they first came out?

 

Yes I can remember fitting one and being a bit annoyed about the demanded size and requirements of the supply cable without which the supplier would not provide warranty cover.

 

Although a little small for day in day out use they seem to be very reliable.

[Gary Peacock]

Well I have got hold of a good quality 20A AC PSU to try and get rid of the under voltage issues, I will fit this to one boat and if it is successful the other two.

 

If you are considering fitting an Hurricane II then you will have to factor another £75.00 for the PSU into your costs.

 

I suppose the final argument if this gets all legal and messy will be the old one-

 

Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

 

The goods must be as described. If any description is applied to the goods on packaging, in an advert or verbally by the seller, the goods must match that description. For example, if the colour or size of an item is stated on the packet then goods inside must be of that colour or size.

The goods must be fit for their purpose. The goods must be fit for all the purposes for which they are normally supplied and, in addition, if you bought the goods for a specific purpose and made that purpose known to the seller then the goods must be suitable for that purpose. For example, if a shop says a particular paint is suitable for outdoor use, then it should be.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[Doorman]

I do not believe that any of these heaters are sh**e, it is the fact that the makers/sellers are selling into a market where they are not suitable.

 

When reading the small print, they are not suitable for use in boats unless certain criteria are met and the main criteria is the type of fuel.

 

The fuel we buy is not suitable, therefore these heaters are not suitable.

 

Having said that I am having an Erbaspacher fitted.

 

Hello Keith,

 

I noted with interest the comments made regarding the Hurricane heater voltage problems. I also seen that you are having an Eberspacher heater fitted to your boat. I installed an Eberspacher Hydronic 4.2Kw heater to my 40' narrowboat, after first consulting with the Chandlers as to the suitability of the unit for my boat.

 

They were very helpful and indicated that I should use the 4.2kw as opposed to the 5.2kw model. The natural inclination for many people is to lean towards the larger output heater, believing that this will warm the boat quicker during the winter months. The consequence of this is that the larger heater will tend to go into "idle" mode more often, potentially increasing the possibility of the heater prematurely 'coking up' and requiring shorter service intervals.

 

After 8 months of service during which we have virtually lived aboard, I have had to 'de-coke' the heater owing to repeated start-up failures. Some 40% of the burner jets and heat exchanger were found to be blocked with carbon deposits, which caused the start-up problem to occur. The initial installation was carried out to the word of the manual, so the premature decoke requirement can't be blamed for incorrect fitting!

 

The conclusion from similar experiences of other moorers on our marina, is that these heaters, which I believe where originally designed for the auto market, are not in fact designed to burn red diesel. Many of the boaters here have installed separate fuel tanks that feed the heaters with kerosene and consequently don't require such short service intervals.

 

Unless you feel inclined to service the Eberspacher yourself, be prepared for the annual service cost incurred to maintain the reliability of the boiler.

 

Anyone had similar experience with Mikuni heaters? because that's the type of boiler we're having fitted on our next boat.

 

Mike

[bottle]

Hello Mike

 

Thank you for your input, I do appreciate it and have been looking at the problems involved.

 

I do have some experience with them in the automotive way and when first fitted they caused no end of problems, so Erbaspacher got involved. Guess what it was the way they had beeen fitted, when re-fitted, properly, they worked well.

 

We will be liveaboard, CCers, but envisage only using the Erbaspacher for short periods, ie. to get the boat up to temperature quickly and then will change over to solid fuel.

 

My builder has fitted them for a long time and says he has not had any problems with them.

 

We shall see.

[Gibbo]

Anyone had similar experience with Mikuni heaters? because that's the type of boiler we're having fitted on our next boat.

 

 

They don't like poor quality fuel. They coke up and burn glow plugs like there's no tomorrow if the fuel isn't decent quality (don't ask me what "decent quality" means as I have no idea).

 

They drink water pumps and eat air motors. And the price of the replacement parts is absolutey horrendous. In the last 4 years I've spent around £900 on spares. None of these are as a result of a fault causing damage. Simply things (like air motors and water pumps) wearing out.

 

Would I have another? Not if you paid me.

 

Gibbo

[Big COL]

After fitting a number of Hurricane Heaters manufactured by International Thermal Research without problems we now seem to be having problem with the H2 versions.

 

It seems that these new units are very sensitive about the voltage required to start up, now it's common knowledge that all heaters of this nature are fairly voltage dependent but it seems the newer Hurricane's are not happy at anything even slightly bellow 12v so if you have a boat that is largely AC electrically based this can cause problems because the domestic battery bank being continually under load from the inverter will tend to hover around the 12v mark unfortunately this causes the Hurricane heater to detect under voltage and shut down.

 

So at the moment it looks like we are going to have to fit AC power supplies to three existing installations and yet again look for a more suitable marine unit.

 

It seems that the marine heating market is very much a game of if it works it works, if it doesn't it's not our problem!

 

Hi Gary

 

I am still using the Hurricane, 5yrs and trouble free apart from one self induced problem. I still believe these heaters will just about burn anything except water

If the mark2 version has a voltage problem Why not e-mail I.T.R. to see if the MK2 can be dummed down to MK1 spec. You may find it cheaper than fitting extra voltage controls.

[blackrose]

We will be liveaboard, CCers, but envisage only using the Erbaspacher for short periods, ie. to get the boat up to temperature quickly and then will change over to solid fuel.

 

That's the way I use mine on cold winter evenings: Come home, press the erberspacer start button, then empty out the ashes from the solid fuel stove from the night before and start making a new fire. The erberspacher stays on for an hour and it also heats up the calorifier. By the time it switches itself off the stove is nice and hot too.

 

By fiddling with the mini contol panel the erberspacher can be made to stay on longer and there's also programmable setings, but I wouldn't bother with all that. Use it for an hour in the evening and perhaps in the morning on weekends and it should be ok.

 

I have to say that I'm usually on shore power with battery charger on 24/7 so I don't have to think about battery voltage. If you weren't on shore power and your batteries weren't adequately charged, that would be another issue with these type of heaters.

 

I generally avoid running the erberspacher when the calorifier is already hot (from my immersion heater for example), because I think it likes to have a bit of work to do and if the circulating water comes back to the erberspacher hot then it won't burn very hot and coke up.

 

The other thing to do is run it once a week even in summer to keep it going even if you don't need to. A passing boater told me that in my first week on this boat and I've got a feeling he was right.

[chris w]

I have a Webasto which I had with the new boat about 18 months ago. I fitted an hour meter to it on 16th Oct this year and have since clocked up just shy of 150 hours (non-liveaboard). At weekends it runs for about 10 hours per day (in 2 approx 5 hours sittings) in the morning and evening and a few hours during the week if i happen to spend some time working on the boat. I also have a solid fuel stove as well.

 

In the 18 months, I have serviced it twice and removed any coke (however, far less than I imagined). I have never had any problems with it, other than the drongo who fitted it allowed swarf from the header tank drilling to be sucked into the Webasto's water pump. I cleared the pump and all was well. I run the calorifier and 3 radiators with it.

 

Chris