Sign the petition against BW licence fee increases!

[Phoenix_V]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Perhaps I should set it out as more clearly.

 

If more than 25% of CCers are either not playing by the rules, or are acting as apologists for such people, I won't support anything to do with continuous cruisers, unless those campaigning clearly and unambiguously dissociate themselves from the people who are extracting the Carling.

 

It is my view that there are considerably MORE than 25% of CCers who fit this description, and that there is a long way to go if we are to get DOWN to that point.

 

If mayalld does not wish to support the petition because he feels that too many CCers are breaking the rules unacceptably that is his right, but the argument for supporting this petition does not rest on whether or not you feel CCers (or widebeams) are a good or bad thing in general but put simply this group of boaters is being picked on as being defenceless, this time, it might be you next time, and boaters need to stick together against BW. Charging CCers an extra £150 is hardly likely to improve any bad habits they may have is it?

[mayalld]

So, to summarise, Dave Mayall doesn't like Continuous Cruisers - not just because some of them break the rules, but because most of them don't break the rules. Consequently he refuses to accept that challenging BW's attempt to divide and conquer would be in his own interests. Maybe he just doesn't like the idea of someone not having to pay the mooring fees that he chooses to pay.

 

Furthermore, he never, ever breaks the speed limit - no, not even inadvertently - certainly never late at night when there is no one around.

 

I do like continuous cruisers, who continuously cruise.

 

I don't like those who don't cruise very much.

 

My own personal view of what somebody needs to do to be a legitimate CC-er is slightly higher than BW's view.

 

I accept that they will implement their view in what they do. I will implement my view when it comes to offering support or not.

 

And, no, I don't break the speed limit.

 

If mayalld does not wish to support the petition because he feels that too many CCers are breaking the rules unacceptably that is his right, but the argument for supporting this petition does not rest on whether or not you feel CCers (or widebeams) are a good or bad thing in general but put simply this group of boaters is being picked on as being defenceless, this time, it might be you next time, and boaters need to stick together against BW. Charging CCers an extra £150 is hardly likely to improve any bad habits they may have is it?

 

Yes, the "we must all stick together" argument is common.

 

I don't buy it!

 

Put bluntly, CCers get a very nice little discount, in return for not being able to stay in a particular area. If they abuse that and stay in a particular area anyway, then they should pay.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

How is choosing to not pay for a mooring a discount?

[carlt]

Put bluntly, CCers get a very nice little discount, in return for not being able to stay in a particular area. If they abuse that and stay in a particular area anyway, then they should pay.

But CCers don't get a discount. They choose not to buy a service.

[Boatgypsy]

Put bluntly, CCers get a very nice little discount, in return for not being able to stay in a particular area. If they abuse that and stay in a particular area anyway, then they should pay.

 

I hadn't thought of it like that - actually 150 sounds like a bargain if it means I can give up this pesky having to move thing and just stay in one area - I'd save more than 150 in fuel over a year.

 

CCers do not get a discount - we pay the same as you Dave. The only difference is that you choose to pay extra for the use of a strip of land on which to put your little shed and garden gnomes. In not having a mooring we just choose to do the boating that is covered by our licence.

 

I did in fact have a mooring for the first four years that I was on the boat, until I found that BW had double-let my mooring to someone else whilst I was away cruising. When I complained, they told me that although I had paid for the mooring I was underusing it.

[Pretty Funked Up]

A signature from one pompous idiot isnt gonna make much difference anyway.

Can i suggest we concentrate on getting signatures from elsewhere.

That guy obviously isnt much of a team player!!!

[Chris J W]

I have a personal view that, whilst the rules say that a CCer must never remain for more than 14 days, this doesn't mean that they must remain for 14 days.

 

If a CCer moves once every 14 days by the absolute minimum necessary, I call that gaming the system.

 

I'm really struggling to understand your point of view here - and I am trying to understand. The rules say 14 days, so why shouldn't people use those 14 days? So if it were down to, say, 7 days then how long would it take you to think that staying those seven days is 'gaming the system'?

 

At the end of the day, I am free to form a viewpoint on who I will support, and I am merely reporting that view.

 

Fair enough.

 

Had the petition emphasised that BW should, instead of introducing the new charges, clamp down hard on those evading the rules, I would have signed.

 

Fair enough - but isn't it an entirely different issue?

[gaggle]

a discount eh , can you explain how i can get this discount and what the discount will be off.

[Pretty Funked Up]

I too love boats, i feel sorry for the ones stuck in a marina (the boat itself i mean - i know silly its only an inanimate object). i too have to work. I find it very very hard as i'm sure others do, I dont think alot of marina users understand how much harder it is CCing. Theres is one exception already in the thread and shes signed as she does understand how hard it is.

 

I think you are missing the point, that this penalty is not going to fix the problem you have with those CCers you think are breaking the rules, if you think it will fix it then please enlighten me how!

I think you dont like CCers and have no problems in them being hit with this unreasonable penalty.

If thats true then on that rational CCers should have no problems hearing your boat has broken down/got stuck/sinking etc. they can just come on the forum and go "...there will be no support from this boater"

 

We've all seen the people you mean and it is frustrating when you stick to the rules and others 'seem' to get away scot free. Plus they arent even going to be on the internet let alone be reading this forum or even have a clue that petition exists. And how is putting more money on a license fee they dont even pay going to change a thing? (went past one whos license ran out 06/04 today.)

Also alot of CCers struggle to make ends meet, are you hoping to 'tax' them off the water? (will only be the genuine CCers that will be affected) the toerags are hard to stop but the genuines are easily traced and penalised/taxed.

 

The basis of the penalty is that CCers use more water etc. but your argument says they dont even move so how can that be true?

 

Futhermore I signed it because of reasons i've already stated and worry who the next victim will be.... Even though deep down i do feel widebeams should pay alot more! a lousy £50 is a joke really.

 

Edited to add... Sorry about the essay and pleeease sign the petition.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Pretty Funked Up

[Ange]

I've signed it

[mayalld]

But CCers don't get a discount. They choose not to buy a service.

 

They choose not to buy several services, one of which is a permission to remain in the same area for as long as they wish.

 

Many of them, having chosen not to buy this service make use of it anyway.

 

I'm really struggling to understand your point of view here - and I am trying to understand. The rules say 14 days, so why shouldn't people use those 14 days? So if it were down to, say, 7 days then how long would it take you to think that staying those seven days is 'gaming the system'?

 

Staying within the rules is fine, but behaving with consideration often requires one to go beyond the minimum required by the rules.

 

In my opinion (and it is only my opinion), somebody who is genuinely continuously cruising would have a variable cruising pattern. Staying in some places that they liked for 14 days, moving through others after a much shorter period of time, and probably working with the weather. They will sometimes move a short distance, and sometimes a longer distance.

 

If somebody concentrates exclusively on the "how long can I stay here, and how little must I move", then they aren't really a CCer, they are just going through the motions to tick the box.#

 

CCers do not get a discount - we pay the same as you Dave. The only difference is that you choose to pay extra for the use of a strip of land on which to put your little shed and garden gnomes. In not having a mooring we just choose to do the boating that is covered by our licence.

 

I don't have gnomes, or a shed (although a neighbour does, but I'll leave it to her to defend her gnomes).

 

I am well aware that, for my mooring fee, I buy certain things that you don't have. One of those things is a right to stay put.

[Pretty Funked Up]

gotta laugh at the working with the weather comment, like it knows how many days youve been moored. And CCers can winter moor if they feel the need/right to stay put.

 

Anyway your arguing against this petition has a good silver lining....

 

It keeps the thread at the top and therefor more people will become aware of the petition and (HOPEFULLY ) it will get more signatures

[Toddlesocks]

signed

[mayalld]

gotta laugh at the working with the weather comment, like it knows how many days youve been moored.

 

Clearly, I should have explained it better.

 

If I were a CCer, and knew that I had a maximum of 14 days in a location, and the weather was solidly lousy, how do I imagine that I would act if the weather broke on day 8 of my stay at a location?

 

Would I stay put, because I am still allowed another 6 days, or would I make hay whilst the sun shines, and make a move in the good weather?

 

I would move on day 8, because it is possible that there won't be another nice day before I have to leave.

 

My observations of some CCers tell me that they stay until day 14, and then a bit longer until the weather is nice.

[cotswoldsman]

Clearly, I should have explained it better.

 

If I were a CCer, and knew that I had a maximum of 14 days in a location, and the weather was solidly lousy, how do I imagine that I would act if the weather broke on day 8 of my stay at a location?

 

Would I stay put, because I am still allowed another 6 days, or would I make hay whilst the sun shines, and make a move in the good weather?

 

I would move on day 8, because it is possible that there won't be another nice day before I have to leave.

 

My observations of some CCers tell me that they stay until day 14, and then a bit longer until the weather is nice.

 

I have been trying so hard to stay out of this debate!!! As a CCer I know that a lot of people like Mayalld just don't like CCers I waited until I retired (at 54) before I purchased a boat as I never fancied being a part time boater operating within a limited range of a marina, though I understand why people do and have no problem with that. Now that I am retired I have all the time in the world to move around the system, if I chose to stay somewhere for 14 days I do because I can. Never realised that CCers are also fairweather boaters I guess we now have a new catagory of CCer "Fairweather CCer". Dont tell BW otherwise they might put another suplement on these CCers. So if you are a normal CCer you pay an extra £150 and if you are a Fairweather CCer you pay an extra £300, if you are a Fairweather CCer with plants on your boat I think you should pay an extra £450 that just because I don't like plants bit like Mayalld does not like CCers.

[Brummage]

I have been trying so hard to stay out of this debate!!! As a CCer I know that a lot of people like Mayalld just don't like CCers I waited until I retired (at 54) before I purchased a boat as I never fancied being a part time boater operating within a limited range of a marina, though I understand why people do and have no problem with that. Now that I am retired I have all the time in the world to move around the system, if I chose to stay somewhere for 14 days I do because I can. Never realised that CCers are also fairweather boaters I guess we now have a new catagory of CCer "Fairweather CCer". Dont tell BW otherwise they might put another suplement on these CCers. So if you are a normal CCer you pay an extra £150 and if you are a Fairweather CCer you pay an extra £300, if you are a Fairweather CCer with plants on your boat I think you should pay an extra £450 that just because I don't like plants bit like Mayalld does not like CCers.

 

Dave did not say he doesn't like CCers. His issue is with those that claim to CC but don't.

[Lesd]

No he has a problem with people who are tcicking to the rules too, he has said so in many of his replies.

[Brummage]

No he has a problem with people who are tcicking to the rules too, he has said so in many of his replies.

 

The fact is that Dave has made it very clear where he stands, and like it or not, he is entitled to his opinion.

 

Many people chose to remain silent and that is their prerogative. I would hazard that there are a lot of people who have not signed the petition for similar reasons to those Dave has quoted but they had no desire to face the third degree from those with an opposing view.

[carlt]

The fact is that Dave has made it very clear where he stands, and like it or not, he is entitled to his opinion.

 

Many people chose to remain silent and that is their prerogative. I would hazard that there are a lot of people who have not signed the petition for similar reasons to those Dave has quoted but they had no desire to face the third degree from those with an opposing view.

Of course Dave is entitled to his opinion and anyone who disagrees is entitled to debate the issue with him.

 

This is the whole point of a forum and, any form of debate.

 

If this is not what you want, and believe there should be one thread for people who approve of the petition and one for those who disapprove, then surely you should be castigating Dave, for posting on the wrong thread, and disagreeing, in the first place!

[Brummage]

Of course Dave is entitled to his opinion and anyone who disagrees is entitled to debate the issue with him.

 

This is the whole point of a forum and, any form of debate.

 

If this is not what you want, and believe there should be one thread for people who approve of the petition and one for those who disapprove, then surely you should be castigating Dave, for posting on the wrong thread, and disagreeing, in the first place!

You are absolutely right Carl. As always.

[carlt]

You are absolutely right Carl. As always.

No I was wrong once....24th september 1987.

[cotswoldsman]

Dave did not say he doesn't like CCers. His issue is with those that claim to CC but don't.

 

The impression I had was that Dave only likes CCers who will play by his rules and I think this includes CCers who stay on 14 day moorings for 14 days.

[Brummage]

The impression I had was that Dave only likes CCers who will play by his rules and I think this includes CCers who stay on 14 day moorings for 14 days.

 

He has spelt out quite clearly what his opinions were and I'm sure that if you read his posts you will see that there is no need for me to repeat them on his behalf.

[cotswoldsman]

He has spelt out quite clearly what his opinions were and I'm sure that if you read his posts you will see that there is no need for me to repeat them on his behalf.

 

I have and that is why I say he does not like CCers.

[Sir Nibble]

I've not signed simply 'cos I don't do petitions, it is more effective to pray or cast a spell. I can see Daves point in that he appears to be saying "Don't expect my support until you can put your own house in order". Where this falls over is imagining that continuous cruisers have some influence over the minority who tick the box and then never move. I don't know, but would venture to suggest that the conceptual cruisers/ continuous moorers or whatever you want to call them are probably a pain to the genuine ccer due to the descending excrement they bring down upon them in discussions like this. For what it's worth I can understand why BW wants to apply these charges and don't find them hugely unfair.

There, I've built my own cross and even bought the nails, now someone fetch the hammer.