Plumbing

[Dave-Shrop]

Does anyone know what is the difference Between PEX pipe and polybutylene pipe can both be used on a narrowboat.

Thanks

 

David

[blackrose]

Does anyone know what is the difference Between PEX pipe and polybutylene pipe can both be used on a narrowboat.

Thanks

 

David

 

I don't know, but white Speedfit and grey Hep20 can both be used - interchangeably if necessary. I prefer Speedfit as it's easier to pull fittings apart and re-use them.

 

I think there are some cheaper brands around too from Screwfix and the like, but I don't know how they compare in terms of quality.

Edited November 13, 2008 by blackrose

[Nine of Hearts]

I've got a mixture of speedfit and HEP20 fittings on my installation. Does that help? Didn't think so.

[Dave-Shrop]

These are both made by JG Speedfit and supplied by screwfix, but I dont know which pipe you should use.

 

David

[jeb]

Does anyone know what is the difference Between PEX pipe and polybutylene pipe can both be used on a narrowboat.

Thanks

 

David

 

I think the major use of PEX pipe is used for underfloor heating. Try this site, you should get the answere your looking for.

 

 

http://www.johnguest.com/

[wonderdust]

You can use either, i think they are different types of plastic.

[Nine of Hearts]

These are both made by JG Speedfit and supplied by screwfix, but I dont know which pipe you should use.

 

David

 

Speedfit fittings can certainly go on Hep20 pipe. I presume the reverse is also true.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Nine of Hearts

[smileypete]

Does anyone know what is the difference Between PEX pipe and polybutylene pipe can both be used on a narrowboat.

 

PB 'coil' is a bit more bendy and so easier to work with than PEX 'coil'

 

For sealed heating systems (v rare on a narrowboat) 'barrier' pipe must be used.

 

For everything else non barrier pipe can be used but barrier pipe is just as good.

 

With this sort of pipe the pipe manufacturers own 'inserts' must be used.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Guest]

Not wishing to hijack the thread, but briefly, are there any reports of rodent attack on speedfit type plumbing in domestic use? Just wondered as I have piped my home kitchen with same.

[Big Steve]

PB 'coil' is a bit more bendy and so easier to work with than PEX 'coil'

 

For sealed heating systems (v rare on a narrowboat) 'barrier' pipe must be used.

 

For everything else non barrier pipe can be used but barrier pipe is just as good.

 

With this sort of pipe the pipe manufacturers own 'inserts' must be used.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Would just like to add that the barrier stops oxygen getting into the pipe through the plastic, and corroding central heating iron and steel parts(should really be used on all CH systems). Doesn't matter on ordinary plumbing because the water is full of oxygen anyway and there shouldn't be any iron or steel in potable plumbing.

[David Schweizer]

Not wishing to hijack the thread, but briefly, are there any reports of rodent attack on speedfit type plumbing in domestic use? Just wondered as I have piped my home kitchen with same.

That is why Hepworths advise against using Hep20 in cellars where there is a risk of Rodent attack, It is also a good reason why elecrtic cables should be run inside conduit in cellars.

 

I dont think it matter whch type of plastic piping you use, all rodents love the taste of plastic. My children's gerbils used to chew through the stereo speaker cables in no time.

[Guest]

That is why Hepworths advise against using Hep20 in cellars where there is a risk of Rodent attack, It is also a good reason why elecrtic cables should be run inside conduit in cellars.

 

I dont think it matter whch type of plastic piping you use, all rodents love the taste of plastic. My children's gerbils used to chew through the stereo speaker cables in no time.

That is exactly what made me concerned, David. We too had gerbils and I would give them pieces of PVC waste pipe to chew.

[Nine of Hearts]

Sort of on the subject of speedfit/Hep20 plumbing. My CH system is Hep20, but the connections to the rads are short lengths of chromed pipe. The system was installed like this by LB, but I have since added to it and repeated this configuration. I learned sometime after that using Hep20 fittings with chromed pipe is not recommended as the pipe grips don't like it. And it now transpires to prove this that one of the joints is leaking. Does anyone know of a solution? I'd like to keep the chrome pipes as they're quite attractive. Would swapping the Hep20 for speedfit where the radiators connect be better?

[RLWP]

Not wishing to hijack the thread, but briefly, are there any reports of rodent attack on speedfit type plumbing in domestic use? Just wondered as I have piped my home kitchen with same.

 

I'll let you know tomorrow after I have visited the boat with my mousetraps

 

Richard

[David Schweizer]

Sort of on the subject of speedfit/Hep20 plumbing. My CH system is Hep20, but the connections to the rads are short lengths of chromed pipe. The system was installed like this by LB, but I have since added to it and repeated this configuration. I learned sometime after that using Hep20 fittings with chromed pipe is not recommended as the pipe grips don't like it. And it now transpires to prove this that one of the joints is leaking. Does anyone know of a solution? I'd like to keep the chrome pipes as they're quite attractive. Would swapping the Hep20 for speedfit where the radiators connect be better?

Two suggestions.

 

Presumably the pipe you have is chrome plated copper, so you could break the joint, measure the distance of the grip ring from the end of the pipe and add 10mm, remove the grip ring (brute force required) then gently sand off the plating (including the 10mm) with very fine wet and drypaper to reveal the copper pipe underneath. Before re-assembling, smooth the sanded area using 00grade steel wool. You will, also need new griprigs.

 

Alternaltively just replace it with copper pipe, you can always put some of that imtation chrome pipe shield plastic tubing over it if the copper colour offends your eye.

Edited November 14, 2008 by David Schweizer

[Nine of Hearts]

Two suggestions.

 

Presumably the pipe you have is chrome plated copper, so you could break the joint, measure the distance of the grip ring from the end of the pipe and add 10mm, remove the grip ring (brute force required) then gently sand off the plating (including the 10mm) with very fine wet and drypaper to reveal the copper pipe underneath. Before re-assembling, smooth the sanded area using 00grade steel wool. You will, also need new griprigs.

 

Alternaltively just replace it with copper pipe, you can always put some of that imtation chrome pipe shield plastic tubing over it if the copper colour offends your eye.

 

Thanks for the advice. As a follow up, do you know if there's anyway to do this without draining the system? (if only...)

[David Schweizer]

Thanks for the advice. As a follow up, do you know if there's anyway to do this without draining the system? (if only...)

There is this stuff but I don't know how good it is or whether it can be used on plastic pipe:-

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13369/Plumbi...ezing-Kit-220ml

 

If the radiators have valves at both ends you could close them down to remove the piping, then you would only have to freeze the plastic pipe to remove the copper pipe but you would need to keep an eye on it whilst you were making up the new pipe or sanding the old one. It would not be a good idea to freeze the radiator, they have a habit of bursting if frozen.

 

Personally I would close down all the radiators, and drain the pipe which should not be too much water to collect.

[Justme]

Why not fit standard compresion fittings at each end on the rads tails/ I assume that the fittings are hidden & if not use chromed ones.

 

Justme

[bag 'o' bones]

Not wishing to hijack the thread, but briefly, are there any reports of rodent attack on speedfit type plumbing in domestic use? Just wondered as I have piped my home kitchen with same.

 

Only when beer runs through the pipe it seems! John Guest stuff is used to connect up beer engines.

[Guest]

Only when beer runs through the pipe it seems! John Guest stuff is used to connect up beer engines.

I will gnaw through the pipes if they contain beer

[Smelly]

A couple of years ago, when I was assertively (as opposed to the passive efforts currently) fitting the boat out I phoned Hepworth and asked. Apparently they're the same guage and do work together, but neither will warranty their kit in a mixed installation.

 

I've used loads of JG white barrier pipe in my installation and rate the connections as, as has been said, you can de-mount them with little or no fuss unlike the Hep kit. However the JG pipe sags a lot and on the long runs from calorifier to engine (about 8m) has pulled a few clips out so accomodate the expansion on Sudan so I'd be wary of using too much in one length.

 

I got the pipe very cheaply off ebay, two lots from people who'd bought too much for their needs (hint).

[chris w]

Sort of on the subject of speedfit/Hep20 plumbing. My CH system is Hep20, but the connections to the rads are short lengths of chromed pipe. The system was installed like this by LB, but I have since added to it and repeated this configuration. I learned sometime after that using Hep20 fittings with chromed pipe is not recommended as the pipe grips don't like it. And it now transpires to prove this that one of the joints is leaking. Does anyone know of a solution? I'd like to keep the chrome pipes as they're quite attractive. Would swapping the Hep20 for speedfit where the radiators connect be better?

You must remove the chrome before you use plastic plumbing or indeed it won't grip because the chrome is too hard. I spoke to LB about this, a year or so ago, and they confirmed that they always remove the chrome over the distance of the joint.

 

Chris

[bag 'o' bones]

speed fit edit

 

edit: is there no delete option? If not please delete this post!

Edited November 17, 2008 by bag 'o' bones

[David Schweizer]

You must remove the chrome before you use plastic plumbing or indeed it won't grip because the chrome is too hard. I spoke to LB about this, a year or so ago, and they confirmed that they always remove the chrome over the distance of the joint.

 

Chris

Didn't someone else already suggest that.

 

Oh yes here it is. two days ago

 

Presumably the pipe you have is chrome plated copper, so you could break the joint, measure the distance of the grip ring from the end of the pipe and add 10mm, remove the grip ring (brute force required) then gently sand off the plating (including the 10mm) with very fine wet and drypaper to reveal the copper pipe underneath. Before re-assembling, smooth the sanded area using 00grade steel wool. You will, also need new griprigs.

Edited November 17, 2008 by David Schweizer

[NBMike]

Sort of on the subject of speedfit/Hep20 plumbing. My CH system is Hep20, but the connections to the rads are short lengths of chromed pipe. The system was installed like this by LB, but I have since added to it and repeated this configuration. I learned sometime after that using Hep20 fittings with chromed pipe is not recommended as the pipe grips don't like it. And it now transpires to prove this that one of the joints is leaking. Does anyone know of a solution? I'd like to keep the chrome pipes as they're quite attractive. Would swapping the Hep20 for speedfit where the radiators connect be better?

If you carefully measure where the grip ring 'bites' into the chrome pipe and do one complete circle (Not more!) with a tube cutter you should find the teeth sit in the groove and the fitting doesn't slide off the chrome plating.

Mike