Battery Chargers

[steelaway]

Hi TerryL

 

Have you read all the information on the Sterling site? - and is Charles Sterling (also a very succesful man) wrong as well?

 

Alex

[Guest TerryL]

Your response confirms to me what you said yourself some time ago. You are an electrician not an electronics engineer. I am not going to bother to debate the issue of chargers with you as you clearly don't understand the issues nor the cicuitry.

 

I'm glad you know when you're beaten. Actually I've never said what I am, I don't need to boast like you but I was involved with charging batteries and electronic circuitry well before you were even in nappies and I understand both very well. I can confirm that battery charging is not as complicated as you and others would like people to believe.

 

 

Hi TerryL

 

Have you read all the information on the Sterling site? - and is Charles Sterling (also a very succesful man) wrong as well?

 

Alex

 

Do you think people become successful by telling the truth about their products or by making them seem attractive? BTW you should ask Gibbo this question.

[chris w]

Do you think people become successful by telling the truth about their products or by making them seem attractive? BTW you should ask Gibbo this question.

 

So now you're resorting to libelling Gibbo? How low do you go?

 

I can confirm that battery charging is not as complicated as you and others would like people to believe.

 

Well if YOU have confirmed it, none of us need worry anymore as you must be correct and the plethora of respectable manufacturers, books, authors and patent grantees are all wrong.

[Guest TerryL]

quote name='chris w' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:38 AM' post='287543'

So now you're resorting to libelling Gibbo? How low do you go?

 

How do you make that out by asking him the original question? "Have you read all the information on the Sterling site? - and is Charles Sterling (also a very succesful man) wrong as well?" As usual you don't understand.

 

 

Well if YOU have confirmed it, none of us need worry anymore as you must be correct and the plethora of respectable manufacturers, books, authors and patent grantees are all wrong.

 

I like that... respectable manufacturers and authors! So selling expensive electronics makes them right does it? You can ask Gibbo your question as well because I agree with him on alternator controllers, oh, I forgot, you don't do you? In fact he doesn't even agree with you much does he? I wonder why.

[chris w]

In fact he doesn't even agree with you much does he? I wonder why.

Read his site and you'll find an acknowledgement to me. Don't see you on there though

 

 

 

"Machine voltage sensing is the most accurate and reliable way and will be no problem with a properly wired installation.

 

This is a nonsense statement. So monitoring the output of the alternator is better than monitoring the actual battery voltage being charged according to you. What rubbish. So for those people that have split charge diodes you would advocate machine sensing???????????????

 

Please explain in detail:

 

(i) Why you claim machine sensing is more accurate than battery sensing

 

(ii) Why you claim machine sensing is more reliable than battery sensing

Edited October 24, 2008 by chris w

[Guest]

Bet you two are fun at a party

 

 

[grahoom]

so, to get things vaguely on track, I only have one leisure battery and I would like to charge it the best way possible. - at present I use my engine to charge it - but would like to use a battery charger via a generator. as I only have one battery that needs charging (110AH) - what power battery charger would I need? When I bought the boat, the chap that sold it to me also left me a halfords battery charger, but I am under the impression that this wouldn't be so good to get the battery back up to 100% charge once it dips down to 50% of charge.

 

would it be better for me to get a battery charger that would suite me if (and when) I get another battery to add to my battery bank? (I really don't use a lot of electricity when I am on the boat, hard to believe but it's generally only a water pump, and one light - sometimes I put on two lights!!!! and sometimes I play a cd in the built in car stereo - but generally I listen to my wind up radio....)

Edited October 24, 2008 by grahoom

[Guest TerryL]

name='chris w' date='Oct 24 2008, 01:28 AM' post='287556'

Read his site and you'll find an acknowledgement to me. Don't see you on there though

 

Is that where he swats a bluebottle?

 

This is a nonsense statement. So monitoring the output of the alternator is better than monitoring the actual battery voltage being charged according to you. What rubbish. So for those people that have split charge diodes you would advocate machine sensing???????????????

 

Please explain in detail:

 

(i) Why you claim machine sensing is more accurate than battery sensing

 

(ii) Why you claim machine sensing is more reliable than battery sensing

 

I thought you weren't going to debate this with me?

 

If you don't know this and really want to learn something then read it from Gibbo's site, it will tell you all about split charge diodes and remote sensing. I could add more but it's much too simple and boring for you and you wouldn't even try to understand as you are someone very attracted by bells, whistles and flashing lights, oh I forgot again you don't agree with Gibbo or me do you?

 

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/controllers.html

[grahoom]

so, to get things vaguely on track, I only have one leisure battery and I would like to charge it the best way possible. - at present I use my engine to charge it - but would like to use a battery charger via a generator. as I only have one battery that needs charging (110AH) - what power battery charger would I need? When I bought the boat, the chap that sold it to me also left me a halfords battery charger, but I am under the impression that this wouldn't be so good to get the battery back up to 100% charge once it dips down to 50% of charge.

 

would it be better for me to get a battery charger that would suite me if (and when) I get another battery to add to my battery bank? (I really don't use a lot of electricity when I am on the boat, hard to believe but it's generally only a water pump, and one light - sometimes I put on two lights!!!! and sometimes I play a cd in the built in car stereo - but generally I listen to my wind up radio....)

 

 

maybe this?

 

https://sslrelay.com/s74222713.oneandonesho...ndex.shopscript

 

(answering my own question....)

[chris w]

I thought you weren't going to debate this with me?

 

I'll debate with you to protect others from your idiotic and unscientific opinions.

 

Gibbo's site does NOT support your argument for machine sensing..... just the opposite. He argues against split charge diodes (and I agree with him on this). If your boat already has split charge diodes however, most people will leave them in.

 

However, he also argues against machine sensing and I agree with him on this too. Even without diodes, battery sensing takes account of any cable and connection losses as Gibbo points out in his article. Machine sensing cannot do this but still you think it is better. Huh?

 

To quote Gibbo's site: "One last benefit of external controllers is that they convert the alternator to battery sensing as opposed to machine sensing. What this means is that the controller regulates the alternator output to maintain the correct voltage at the batteries. A machine sensing alternator (the normal type) regulates the voltage at the alternator. The 2 may not be the same. For instance insufficient cable size will cause voltage drops. And of course the worst cuplrit is the split charge diode. An external alternator controller will compensate for the voltage drop across the diode thus ensuring that the batteries receive the correct charge voltage"

 

Is this once more going to be a statement you make but can't back up with physics? I bet it is. So tell us why machine sensing is more accurate and more reliable than battery sensing. Or, if it's easier, tell us why in your opinion battery sensing is less accurate and less reliable. What a twit you are.

Edited October 24, 2008 by chris w

[Guest]

I would listen to Gibbo/Smartgauge before any of the self proclaimed experts on here. Following his advice it cost me about a tennerand half an hour to sort my system out (a dead simple rewiring operation that had never occured to me before). There are others on here who would have me spend hundreds to achieve the same goal. My battery bank was good before Gibbo's input; now it is excellent. There is no substitute for experience.

[Guest TerryL]

so, to get things vaguely on track, I only have one leisure battery and I would like to charge it the best way possible. - at present I use my engine to charge it - but would like to use a battery charger via a generator. as I only have one battery that needs charging (110AH) - what power battery charger would I need? When I bought the boat, the chap that sold it to me also left me a halfords battery charger, but I am under the impression that this wouldn't be so good to get the battery back up to 100% charge once it dips down to 50% of charge.

 

would it be better for me to get a battery charger that would suite me if (and when) I get another battery to add to my battery bank? (I really don't use a lot of electricity when I am on the boat, hard to believe but it's generally only a water pump, and one light - sometimes I put on two lights!!!! and sometimes I play a cd in the built in car stereo - but generally I listen to my wind up radio....)

 

You only need 10 amps to charge in 8 hours or so, 20 amps max. I think you would be better off charging from the engine than a generator with the added expense for little capacity. Wind and solar energy would be more efficient.

[Guest]

so, to get things vaguely on track, I only have one leisure battery and I would like to charge it the best way possible. - at present I use my engine to charge it - but would like to use a battery charger via a generator. as I only have one battery that needs charging (110AH) - what power battery charger would I need? When I bought the boat, the chap that sold it to me also left me a halfords battery charger, but I am under the impression that this wouldn't be so good to get the battery back up to 100% charge once it dips down to 50% of charge.

 

would it be better for me to get a battery charger that would suite me if (and when) I get another battery to add to my battery bank? (I really don't use a lot of electricity when I am on the boat, hard to believe but it's generally only a water pump, and one light - sometimes I put on two lights!!!! and sometimes I play a cd in the built in car stereo - but generally I listen to my wind up radio....)

I find the basic Sterling chagers work very well off my rather crude generator. Mine is the more basic charger, the name of whcih escapes me. I could find out if it helps.

[magnetman]

Talking about Battery Chargers, ie devices to convert mains voltage AC electric into a form suitable for recharging batteries:

 

 

I run a Black and Decker 2/10/30 'amibovvered how many' stages charger from a generator. its pretty good. don't know if it'd work as a 'leave alone' unit because it seems to require user intervention although I did notice the other day that it will automatically go into the 2 amp charge mode without being touched, about a minute or two after being plugged in

 

its this one:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-Auto-...r/dp/B0013242IA

 

strangely Amazon suggest it is suitable for boats but B&D in the manual say not suitable for boats. not sure why but it could be that it doesn't lend itself to being 'hard wired' ie installed permanently and most people on boats would want a permanent installation.

[Guest]

Talking about Battery Chargers, ie devices to convert mains voltage AC electric into a form suitable for recharging batteries:

 

 

I run a Black and Decker 2/10/30 'amibovvered how many' stages charger from a generator. its pretty good. don't know if it'd work as a 'leave alone' unit because it seems to require user intervention although I did notice the other day that it will automatically go into the 2 amp charge mode without being touched, about a minute or two after being plugged in

 

its this one:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-Auto-...r/dp/B0013242IA

 

strangely Amazon suggest it is suitable for boats but B&D in the manual say not suitable for boats. not sure why but it could be that it doesn't lend itself to being 'hard wired' ie installed permanently and most people on boats would want a permanent installation.

I think Argos do a similar one?

[chris w]

so, to get things vaguely on track, I only have one leisure battery and I would like to charge it the best way possible. - at present I use my engine to charge it - but would like to use a battery charger via a generator. as I only have one battery that needs charging (110AH) - what power battery charger would I need? When I bought the boat, the chap that sold it to me also left me a halfords battery charger, but I am under the impression that this wouldn't be so good to get the battery back up to 100% charge once it dips down to 50% of charge.

 

would it be better for me to get a battery charger that would suite me if (and when) I get another battery to add to my battery bank? (I really don't use a lot of electricity when I am on the boat, hard to believe but it's generally only a water pump, and one light - sometimes I put on two lights!!!! and sometimes I play a cd in the built in car stereo - but generally I listen to my wind up radio....)

 

It would be better IMHO to get a charger that will not only suit your present needs but also likely future needs as the difference in price is not great given that you are going to fork out for one anyway. How are you charging your start battery BTW.

 

I would suggest a 30A or 40A charger which will be under utilised with your one battery at the moment but will easily sort out 3 domestics and a start battery at any time in the future. I have Sterling charges like many others and am really happy with them. They have multiple outputs so that one can charge the start and domestic batteries simultaneously and can be permanently wired in.

 

Chris

[grahoom]

Talking about Battery Chargers, ie devices to convert mains voltage AC electric into a form suitable for recharging batteries:

 

 

I run a Black and Decker 2/10/30 'amibovvered how many' stages charger from a generator. its pretty good. don't know if it'd work as a 'leave alone' unit because it seems to require user intervention although I did notice the other day that it will automatically go into the 2 amp charge mode without being touched, about a minute or two after being plugged in

 

its this one:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-Auto-...r/dp/B0013242IA

 

strangely Amazon suggest it is suitable for boats but B&D in the manual say not suitable for boats. not sure why but it could be that it doesn't lend itself to being 'hard wired' ie installed permanently and most people on boats would want a permanent installation.

 

ah, that's the sort of thing I am after really, as I want to charge battery from generator rather than running the engine. I don't really need a leave alone unit.... ..

 

It would be better IMHO to get a charger that will not only suit your present needs but also likely future needs as the difference in price is not great given that you are going to fork out for one anyway. How are you charging your start battery BTW.

 

I would suggest a 30A or 40A charger which will be under utilised with your one battery at the moment but will easily sort out 3 domestics and a start battery at any time in the future. I have Sterling charges like many others and am really happy with them. They have multiple outputs so that one can charge the start and domestic batteries simultaneously and can be permanently wired in.

 

Chris

 

starter battery is charged via the alternator when engine is running... (had no problem with starter battery, and regularly checking it - it shows it is 100% charged).

 

ok, thanks chris for the reply.

[bottle]

I would go by the manufacturers manual.

 

Amazon have been known to get the description/usage wrong on many things.

 

Having said that use them all the time but checking other sources for info.

[magnetman]

I got mine at Argos, and they didn't say anything about boats so no misinformation.

 

I'm a bit confused as to why it isn't suitable for boats because it seems to be just right for the job.

 

maybe it needs a Galvanising Insultation Transponderiser fitted to avoid certain death or something?

[grahoom]

maybe it needs a Galvanising Insultation Transponderiser fitted to avoid certain death or something?

 

now you've done it.... you had to go and mention Galvanic Isolation!

Edited October 24, 2008 by grahoom

[carlt]

Chris (W). I seem to recall you posting that you'd get hold of one of these B&D multi-stage chargers and have a good look at it.

 

Did you get round to it, by any chance, and, if so, what is your opinion on these, compared with the more expensive multi-stagers?

 

Despite our (rather obvious) differences in pretty much every other walk of life, I do value your expertise on these matters.

[bottle]

now you've done it.... you had to go and mention Galvanic Isolation!

 

No he didn't he mentioned galvanising a completely different thing, galvanising is beneficial......................Oh!! I give up.

[chris w]

Chris (W). I seem to recall you posting that you'd get hold of one of these B&D multi-stage chargers and have a good look at it.

 

Did you get round to it, by any chance, and, if so, what is your opinion on these, compared with the more expensive multi-stagers?

 

Despite our (rather obvious) differences in pretty much every other walk of life, I do value your expertise on these matters.

 

I don't recall saying that.... it may have been a different "Chris". I may have said that I'll check the specs out on paper, which I do remember doing, and posting but can't recall my conclusions now. I'll do a search.

 

Chris

[Guest TerryL]

I'll debate with you to protect others from your idiotic and unscientific opinions.

 

Gibbo's site does NOT support your argument for machine sensing..... just the opposite. He argues against split charge diodes (and I agree with him on this). If your boat already has split charge diodes however, most people will leave them in.

 

However, he also argues against machine sensing and I agree with him on this too. Even without diodes, battery sensing takes account of any cable and connection losses as Gibbo points out in his article. Machine sensing cannot do this but still you think it is better. Huh?

 

Is this once more going to be a statement you make but can't back up with physics? I bet it is. So tell us why machine sensing is more accurate and more reliable than battery sensing. Or, if it's easier, tell us why in your opinion battery sensing is less accurate and less reliable. What a twit you are.

 

Wrong Bluebottle, you should read it properly, and my post, you don't need remote sensing with a good installation as there's little if anything to compensate for, that's why most alternators are machine sensed. Do it properly and you don't need to fix it with lots of add on bits that can fall off and lose control. KISS and keep learning!

[grahoom]

No he didn't he mentioned galvanising a completely different thing, galvanising is beneficial......................Oh!! I give up.

 

I am just going to make sure anything that uses energy is wind up from now on... makes life so much easier...