Using the engine in the lock... or not...

[Cinimod]

With the rising prices of diesel, especially with the fuel duty changing, I was wondering if it does any harm to your engine to turn it off whilst in a lock.

 

Based on a lock taking on average 15 minutes, that could save you an hours worth of diesel and engine wear (I think it is not good to idle a diesel if it can be avoided?) for every 4 locks... Also whilst moored below/above a lock if you turn your engine off whilst you set the lock, is this a good or a bad thing?

 

The question then is - do you do any harm to the engine keep turning it off and on again, or is it worth the extra effort to control your boat with the ropes in the lock to save yourself a not inconsiderable amount of Diesel (how much Diesel does the engine use in an hour???)

 

Thoughts and ideas appreciated...

[GSer]

I'd prefer to keep the engine running for safety reasons, but perhaps thats just me?

 

Last time I checked IIRC my Perkins D3 uses much less than a litre an hour ticking over.

 

Paul

[denboy]

extra strain on the starter motor extra strain on starter baty

[Bones]

I was thinking about abandoning the engine and punting my boat around. It seems to work well except in Locks - but then I suppose that is what the ropes are for?

[alan_fincher]

how much Diesel does the engine use in an hour???

Our not very modern BMC averages at under 1.5 litres per hour when cruising. Fairly obviously then it's going to be consuming way under 1 litre per hour on tick-over. We generally manage at leat 6 locks per hour, so I'm guessing we use well under 1/6th of a litre in each lock.

 

Possibly we are spending about 12 or 13 p per lock now, (more from 1st November), but I suspect it's less than that.

 

I personally just have a big manual switch for battery selection, (no relay or split charge diodes), and couldn't be doing with all the faffing around of stopping and starting the engine, as it means switching the switch each and every time.

[Scotty]

You might find you're not charging your batteries fully by stopping and starting the engine

[mayalld]

With the rising prices of diesel, especially with the fuel duty changing, I was wondering if it does any harm to your engine to turn it off whilst in a lock.

 

Based on a lock taking on average 15 minutes, that could save you an hours worth of diesel and engine wear (I think it is not good to idle a diesel if it can be avoided?) for every 4 locks... Also whilst moored below/above a lock if you turn your engine off whilst you set the lock, is this a good or a bad thing?

 

The question then is - do you do any harm to the engine keep turning it off and on again, or is it worth the extra effort to control your boat with the ropes in the lock to save yourself a not inconsiderable amount of Diesel (how much Diesel does the engine use in an hour???)

 

Thoughts and ideas appreciated...

 

15 minutes per lock????

 

I hadn't realised that we had a representative of the "going unbelievably slowly through locks society" on the forum.

 

Please keep in mind that the oft-quoted 4 lock-miles per hour is;

1. Plain wrong (you will rarely manage 4mph, you will often manage far more than 4lph)
   
2. Talking about total transit time, from slowing to drop off crew, to getting under way after completing a lock, not the actual time in a lock.
   

When going through Marple locks, we have never taken more than 2.5 hours (less than 10 minutes per lock transit time, and if we put our mind to it, we can do the flight in 1 hour 25 minutes (5'20" per lock, including the time to get between the locks)

 

If we allow for the fact that the locks are spread over 1 mile, and assume an average inter-lock speed of 3mph, we spend 20 minutes of our transit actually moving forward, and 1h5m in vertical movement.

 

That makes 4 minutes per lock when we could turn off the engine.

 

So we could potentially say 0.07 litres per lock, compared to tickover, at the expense of additional wear on the engine, and starter, and more to the point at the expense of not having the engine available if it is needed in an emergency.

[GSer]

15 minutes per lock????

 

I hadn't realised that we had a representative of the "going unbelievably slowly through locks society" on the forum.

 

That's a bit harsh (especially as it often takes me 15mins to clear a lock ) On single gate, narrow locks with their relative ease of use yes you can fly through them, however the wider double locks on the K&A can take 15-20 mins easily especially if you are on your own. I only know of one 'Miss Behavin' and that's on the K&A so perhaps 'Cinimod' is a K&A snail like me

 

Paul

[Machpoint005]

I agree wholeheartedly with Dave. The safety issues are by far the most important (see the various threads on cilling risk) but if saving a few pence an hour on diesel fuel was important, I'd have to reassess my priorities.

[pearley]

Here on the Great Ouse it seems to be about 30mins a lock so turning the engine off does make a difference.

[alan_fincher]

15 minutes per lock????

 

I hadn't realised that we had a representative of the "going unbelievably slowly through locks society" on the forum.

I challenge you to ascend Kegworth New Lock, (aka Kegworth Deep Lock) on the Soar in just 15 minutes, (particularly if it's against you on arrival).

 

But I do agree - with a clear run, I would be generally dissapointed to take 15 minutes over a canal lock.

[mayalld]

That's a bit harsh (especially as it often takes me 15mins to clear a lock ) On single gate, narrow locks with their relative ease of use yes you can fly through them, however the wider double locks on the K&A can take 15-20 mins easily especially if you are on your own. I only know of one 'Miss Behavin' and that's on the K&A so perhaps 'Cinimod' is a K&A snail like me

 

Paul

 

The safety argument against turning off engines is (IMHO) greater in wider locks.

[Machpoint005]

So what is the saving? £2 per day of cruising, on average? With the best will in the world, I'm not getting more than 30 full days of cruising in a year, and 60 squid won't keep the memsahib in gin for very long!

[mayalld]

So what is the saving? £2 per day of cruising, on average? With the best will in the world, I'm not getting more than 30 full days of cruising in a year, and 60 squid won't keep the memsahib in gin for very long!

 

Even allowing for the new price of diesel, you are going to be hard pushed to save 60 quid a year.

 

I reckon that you will save 6-12 p per lock, so 60 quid a year means 500-1000 locks per year.

 

That's a LOT of locks!!

 

Anybody know what the MTBF and replacement costs of;

• Ignition switches
  
• Starter motors
  

Is?

[stuart]

On the same topic, have you seen the newer BMW cars? They switch the engine off as soon as you stop the car, start again in a blink of the eye (well fairly fast!) as soon as you push the clutch down?

 

Quite strange trying to drive one for the first time!

 

They obviously dont worry about starter motor wear, engine wear or problems with battery chargers - but I expect the technology is also newer.

[Serendipity]

On the same topic, have you seen the newer BMW cars? They switch the engine off as soon as you stop the car, start again in a blink of the eye (well fairly fast!) as soon as you push the clutch down?

 

Quite strange trying to drive one for the first time!

 

They obviously dont worry about starter motor wear, engine wear or problems with battery chargers - but I expect the technology is also newer.

 

My Audi80 did that in 1982 - loved the car, but hated that feature.

[Cinimod]

That's a bit harsh (especially as it often takes me 15mins to clear a lock ) On single gate, narrow locks with their relative ease of use yes you can fly through them, however the wider double locks on the K&A can take 15-20 mins easily especially if you are on your own. I only know of one 'Miss Behavin' and that's on the K&A so perhaps 'Cinimod' is a K&A snail like me

 

Paul

Thanks for jumping in - we are indeed on the K&A - just spent 2 days below lock 93 while they fixed Midgham at 92... trying to decide which side of it we want to end up before they close it for the winter to replace the gates - which still leak like a sieve!

 

I think there are maybe 3 or 4 Miss B's registered, but it is certainly not a common one... oh for the ease of single gate narrow locks... the K&A is hard going, especially from our home stretch near Aldermaston, lots of wide locks in every direction...

[GSer]

Thanks for jumping in - we are indeed on the K&A - just spent 2 days below lock 93 while they fixed Midgham at 92... trying to decide which side of it we want to end up before they close it for the winter to replace the gates - which still leak like a sieve!

 

I think there are maybe 3 or 4 Miss B's registered, but it is certainly not a common one... oh for the ease of single gate narrow locks... the K&A is hard going, especially from our home stretch near Aldermaston, lots of wide locks in every direction...

 

 

Hi, coming that way in a couple of weeks, if you don't mind me asking have you a connection with Canis lupus by any chance?

 

Paul

[Cinimod]

Hi, coming that way in a couple of weeks, if you don't mind me asking have you a connection with Canis lupus by any chance?

 

Paul

 

Ah - rumbled... well Wendy and I (Dominic) used to - we handed in our resignation a little while back as we could not work with the politics and the direction that the UK Wolf Conservation Trust was going. If you are interested here are a few links for you;

Letter of resignation from Wendy & I

Letter of clarification from John Denness - ex-Senior Wolf Handler

BLOG of John Denness

My site regards volunteering and wolves in more general terms

 

We are trying to see if we can live aboard and make all the technology we need work for us to see if CC is something we would be able to manage - IF we can find someone to buy the house!

 

At the moment also working on the question of whether we should but a Gennie, or use the engine to power everything we are running... (all we need is on 12v)... ideas on a postcard...

[GSer]

Yes, you are the MB i've met, PM'ed you

 

Paul, Jeanette & Molly (Berengaria)

[Machpoint005]

On the same topic, have you seen the newer BMW cars? They switch the engine off as soon as you stop the car, start again in a blink of the eye (well fairly fast!) as soon as you push the clutch down?

 

Quite strange trying to drive one for the first time!

 

They obviously don't worry about starter motor wear, engine wear or problems with battery chargers - but I expect the technology is also newer.

 

Yes, but the biggest problem is the BMW badge on the front.

[alan_fincher]

On the same topic, have you seen the newer BMW cars? They switch the engine off as soon as you stop the car, start again in a blink of the eye (well fairly fast!) as soon as you push the clutch down?

 

Quite strange trying to drive one for the first time!

 

They obviously dont worry about starter motor wear, engine wear or problems with battery chargers - but I expect the technology is also newer.

Out of interest, do they do it on the diesels in their range, Stuart ?

 

It takes appreciably more battery power to keep stopping and starting a diesel than it does a petrol.

[mayalld]

Yes, but the biggest problem is the BMW badge on the front.

 

I saw a BMW once that had working indicators.

[Chris-B]

I saw a BMW once that had working indicators.

 

 

Another urban legend

[Machpoint005]

I saw a BMW once that had working indicators.

:lol: Bet it wasn't anywhere near Manchester!