10 days to decide!

[newbird]

Ok all. I have seen a boat and so has my friend who lives on one (he approves of this particular vessel). This is what I know (theres lots I don't). Its semi trad - loads of space either end. 44ft long(bigger than I ever expected! ooer mrs). At the marina I want to be in. Un named (imagination going wild). Needs 240v system putting in and a water heater but the bonus is the people at the marina will do this for me and its being re painted, having a new stove and I can basically pick out a few features I would like, i.e bedroom sectioning off, units ripping out, tiles behind stove - all cosmetic I know. It did have a survey when it came to the marina but I presume will need another (can be re blackened at same time apparantly?) Has BSC - safety thing until sometimes next year. Is bang on what the bank will lend (oh its a car i'm buying by the way!!) which leaves me with all my savings to play with. Its the 2nd boat I've seen (both today!) but at the place I want to be and I'm just concerned people say shop around and I don't want to. Built 1988 I think. Opinions welcome..........

[alan_fincher]

Has BSC - safety thing until sometimes next year.

When next year?, as next year isn't very far away!

 

I don't wish to sound negative, but the fact a 20 year old boat passed a BSC 3 years ago, in no way guarantees that getting it through the next one will be straightforward.

 

If it's not got long to run, it would be worth trying to negotiate the existing owner getting a new one now, as part of the deal.

 

There are lots of boats about, and it's very much a buyer's market, so it does no harm to ask!

 

There will inevitably more "non BSC" items needing than will be obvious at the outset. You could do without the added stress of trying to get a BSC as well.

[sociable_hermit]

Sounds very promising. Semi-trad sterns are great for liveaboards. 44' is a decent size boat, too, but check whether it has (or could have) enough storage space. The more cupboards, drawers etc. the better!

 

On the cautious side - yes, still get a full survey, from a well-known, respected and independent surveyor. A 1988 hull might be fine, but it's getting to the age where there's a chance it might not. As the BSC is due next year, pay particular attention to this, too, as there may be 'system' faults which are easier to fix while the interior is in bits.

 

Secondly - if the boatyard are offering to black the hull and change the interior layout for you, who will be paying? And how much? (With boatyard estimates, it's often best to budget for approx. double both the time and the money they tell you at the start). It's important to know whether all of this work is included in the asking price, or whether it'll be on top.

 

See if they can provide you with an inventory of the 'bits and pieces' it will come with, such as fenders, pole, battery charger, spare loo cassette, ropes, generator, anchor, chimney, fire extinguishers etc.. Private sales often include a lot of this stuff whereas brokerages don't tend to leave much. Not necessarily a problem but beware, these things add up. Have a look around a few Chandleries to get a feel for prices.

[newbird]

When next year?, as next year isn't very far away!

 

 

Not sure I've done this quote thing right - Oct next year?? So a year then! Hows that do you think? How long do they last? 3 or 4 yrs?

[alan_fincher]

No you are spot on with the quote.

 

They last 4 years, so it's 3 gone and one to run. Not a show-stopper, but time does tend to evaporate.

 

Hopefully if your surveyor is any good, they will indicate things that are a likely BSS fail as part of the survey, (although ours turned his nose up at a couple of things that nevertheless went through the next BSS without challenge....).

[Bones]

A survey is a good start, if you love it, persue it. I would make sure you get a new BSS on it though.

[NB Alnwick]

A survey is a good start, if you love it, persue it. I would make sure you get a new BSS on it though.

 

Wise advice! Also be prepared to haggle a lot - in this climate it should be possible to get either a big reduction on the price and/or lots of extras thrown in for free!

[bottle]

STOP!!!!!!

 

Newbird

 

Time for to engage brain and not heart.

 

I may have mis-read but it seems that the boat is in the process of having a partial re-fit, is this included in the price, why is the work necessary and why is it up for sale?

 

As has been mentioned definitely have it surveyed, blacking and re-paint can cover a multitude of sins.

 

The BSC is not worth the paper it is written on, all it proves is that on a certain day, three years ago, the boat passed an examination, it does prove that it will now.

 

Why ten days to decide?

 

You are about to spend a lot of the banks money and they will want it back even if the boat is scrap.

[jami dodgers]

Hi Newbird, with the greatest of respect matey, have you heard the expression, "A fool and his money are soon parted"? You are about to fall into that trap. Its too old, there are too many unknowns, you are being hoodwinked by a professional sales outfit, whilst being the first to admit that you don't know enough. Why only ten days to decide? What is supposed to happen if you haven't decided? They're going to sell it someone else? Don't make me laugh, they're pressurising you and you're selling it to yourself!

 

Hang loose mate, be cool! Its going to become the biggest buyer's market in living memory! Don't you listen to the news? If you are seriously asking for advice? If so, listen to what others are telling you and back off.

[newbird]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I've been to the bank and have the money. My friend who has lived on a boat for nearly two years has seen this one and said he would sell his and buy this so thats a good start in my eyes. The brokers have a ssured me of a new BSC licence valid for 4yrs. They had a survey done a couple of weeks ago before it came to the marina and said they are happy to for me look at this survey but if I want to pay to get another one done no problem (again, the bloke who did this survey did my friends). They are throwing in new cratch covers, re paint, battery charger, new shower, toilet and sink etc etc - although I am aware these are superficial. I am going tomorrow to finalise details and taking my dad with me to ask a few more techincal questions, look over the survey and finalise a price. . . . . . any final words of wisdom?? xx

[bottle]

Yes, good luck and.................................................... as before try to leave your heart at home.

[newbird]

Yes, good luck and.................................................... as before try to leave your heart at home.

 

Thanks that means a lot to me. Just one question - once I've seen the survey and see it was dated a few weeks ago and am happy with whats written in it, would it be worth me getting another one done or am I wasting my money if the same man is going to tell me the same thing without even looking over the boat again? Basically am I ok to go with whats in this survey? Or not?

 

Also, sorry. Engines. I haven't the foggiest. BS 1.5 I think, on 44ft built 1988. Mean anything to you??

 

[bottle]

Hi

 

A phone call to the surveyor, might be enough to set your mind at rest.

 

I suspect the engine is a mis-print probably a BMC 1.5.

 

Not had any dealings but one of the firms, probably the best to contact, if it is, is Calcutt Boats

 

The engines are not made any more, the last ones I believe were made in India to a British design, your dad will probably remember BMC.

[sociable_hermit]

If you didn't know the Surveyor it might pay to be dubious, as they could be 'good friends' of the boat seller.

 

If your friend knows and trusts the Surveyor, then they should be ok (well, provided your friend gives good advice). You can never tell 100% of course, but what else could you ask for?

 

Have a careful look at the survey itself, though - see what it covers and what it doesn't. If you're concerned that not everything has been covered, it might be worth getting someone in to examine the missing bits. This is tricky to judge as you're looking for what's not shown in the survey rather than what is. If your Dad is technically minded and slightly cynical maybe this is something he could think about?

 

Another thought: make sure the 'extras' being supplied by the boat yard are specified precisely, before you start haggling. Otherwise if you knock £5,000 off the price you may find your nice big shiny boat battery charger is suddenly a £20 effort from Halfords, and your sofa is now a couple of deckchairs sellotaped together. I know they're probably not like that at all, but business is business and you have to assume the worst about people, I'm afraid.

[Tillerman]

One question:

 

How can you get a loan for a boat - that you've said is actually "a car?"

If for some reason the loan isn't paid back, aren't they going to try and reposse the "car?"

[tugstyle]

Hi newbird,

 

The problem for me is it all sound a bit contrived.

 

There is not enough distance between the 'broker', the 'boatyard or marina' and the 'seller'.

 

I suspect they are all one and the same. And they just happen to have a survey done? Why?

 

Get your own independent survey done. It's the only way you can be sure.

 

Oh and good luck!

 

tugstyle

[ditchcrawler]

Hi newbird,

 

The problem for me is it all sound a bit contrived.

 

There is not enough distance between the 'broker', the 'boatyard or marina' and the 'seller'.

 

I suspect they are all one and the same. And they just happen to have a survey done? Why?

 

Get your own independent survey done. It's the only way you can be sure.

 

Oh and good luck!

 

tugstyle

Sorry to say it, but I agree with tugstyle. I have been around narrowboats for over 20 years and would still get an "independent" survey

[captain rosie]

Paying for an independent survey is always best as they are working for you. They can give you advice and knowledge about a boat that as a novice you would never know about. It's money well spent! An engine survey is invaluable as you'll know what your letting yourself in for. Cosmetic things can be perfected over time, whats important now is the quality of the structure and the engine of the boat. Never buy a boat in a rush or because you love it! Better to take the time and make sure it's absolutely right, nothing could be worse than taking a loan out on a boat that may cost later on repairs or you have try and sell because it's a dud! You also can negociate a better price with more infomation!

[newbird]

I'm not sure what you will all make of this -

 

1988 Built by Nichols of York (?American?)

 

It was a 6/5/?? boat (cant remember what he said on the phone), I'm aware that newer boats are built to something like 10/8/?? but is this the end of the world?

 

it is now as follows:

 

Base plate 5.25-5.7 mm

Swim plate 5.9mm

Side plate 4.75mm

 

[sociable_hermit]

Well, 6mm isn't very thick for a bottom plate, but on the other hand it's only worn by 0.75mm in 20 years. I'd start getting twitchy about it at half thickness, i.e. 3mm. If the rate of erosion remains the same, that would mean replating the hull in, ooh, another 60 years' time.

 

Not everyone is happy with the idea of starting with a 6mm hull, though, so remember the purchase price should be lower than the average boat constructed from 10mm steel. And likewise it will reduce the resale value should you ever decide to sell it.

 

Also, because the hull is relatively thin compared to others, be extra careful to ensure the electrics are good (galvanic isolator etc.), the hull is blacked regularly and the anodes replaced sooner rather than later.

 

That's what I reckon, anyway.

 

 

P.S. The other thing to consider is that 6mm hull normally = budget boat. So look carefully at the quality of the rest of it!

[AlanH]

P.S. The other thing to consider is that 6mm hull normally = budget boat. So look carefully at the quality of the rest of it!

 

 

Not 20 years ago. 6/5/4 was more or less standard for a lot of boats. I'd better point out that the modern standard (10/6/4) is 10mm for the base plate only. It is quite possible that the base plate was 1/4"" (6.25mm) originally.

[tugstyle]

Hi newbird,

 

So my boat was built in 1998 to 10/6/4 standard.

 

At survey this year it came up as:

 

Base plate 9.2 - 9.7 mm

Swim plate 5.8 - 5.9 mm

Side plate 5.8 - 5.9 mm

 

Max pitting anywhere was 0.7 mm.

 

So the boat you are looking at does not seem to have lost a disastrous amount, but then it started with less!

 

Also the boat does appear to have a name:

 

From Jim Shead:

 

ISAMBARD Built by NICHOLS OF YORK - Length 13.42 metres (44 feet ) - Beam 2.08 metres (6 feet 10 inches ) Metal hull power of 30. Registered with British Waterways number 75913 as a Powered. Last registration recorded on 19-Apr-08

 

It is the only NICHOLS OF YORK boat listed.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited October 8, 2008 by tugstyle

[Fishing Nut]

what year did they start making them 10mm?

 

6mm doesnt sound much but a steel hull of 6mm with the right treatment will do you proud i bet. Narrow boats are hefty ole machines to be fair!

 

Its impressive that a 20 year old steel thing that have been sat in the elements isnt faling into a pile of rust on the riverbed.

 

I didnt relaise a survey gave that kinda accurate information.... how the... surely theres areas that can hide a multitude of sins from even the serveyers eye?

 

Thanks

[pwl]

In'Cha is 20 years old, has an 8mm bottom plate and ultrasound tests show that is is almost all still there. Until last month it had NEVER had anodes fitted! (it now has 8 as they are only really effective about 2 meters either side of the attachment point). I agree with others here in that I would get an independent survey done and try to be there. That way you can make observations and ask questions. Just agree it with the surveyor first.

 

P

[carlt]

One question:

 

How can you get a loan for a boat - that you've said is actually "a car?"

If for some reason the loan isn't paid back, aren't they going to try and reposse the "car?"

An unsecured loan means they can't reposses the thing bought with the money from it.