Thanks for NOTHING!

[bargiepat]

Hi

Anyone know exactly where this happened. He mentions Fairy lock but I can't see it. If you can say where I will stick a Google map of it on here and we can then see the bend they were on and the small bushes etc,

 

Regards Patrick

[Yoda]

This topic is being overdone.

 

We in this country do not require a law to tell us when to go to the help of another and we should not jeperdise ourselves whilst helping another. Some are more caperble than others so there can never be a fixed idea of any one solution to a problem. Perhaps we should put flags on inland boats to show distress or perhaps have compulsary VHF radio but one thing for sure is that people will mis-understand any mis-heard cry for help.

[magnetman]

This topic is being overdone.

 

We in this country do not require a law to tell us when to go to the help of another and we should not jeperdise ourselves whilst helping another. Some are more caperble than others so there can never be a fixed idea of any one solution to a problem. Perhaps we should put flags on inland boats to show distress or perhaps have compulsary VHF radio but one thing for sure is that people will mis-understand any mis-heard cry for help.

 

Sorry thats too sensible.

[Troll]

Look, lets be fair here, it could have been beer they were rushing for

[alan_fincher]

Hi

Anyone know exactly where this happened. He mentions Fairy lock but I can't see it. If you can say where I will stick a Google map of it on here and we can then see the bend they were on and the small bushes etc,

 

Regards Patrick

I don't know the river at all but does "Fairies Hill Lock/Fairies Hill Marina" sound likely?

 

That's Castleford, which isn't far from Stanley Ferry, also mentioned.

 

I doubt you are going to be able to guess which bend or bridge though!

[Hairy-Neil]

I doubt you are going to be able to guess which bend or bridge though!

 

The OP says it's 1/3 mile below the lock on the outside of a bend, just above a multi arch bridge. I should think that narrows it down somewhat.

 

 

There are two railway bridges in that area, bridges 8 and 9.....

[Timleech]

The OP says it's 1/3 mile below the lock on the outside of a bend, just above a multi arch bridge. I should think that narrows it down somewhat.

 

 

There are two railway bridges in that area, bridges 8 and 9.....

 

I'll hazard a guess that it was here

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=53.720814...=h&hl=en-GB

 

Tim

[bargiepat]

Hi,

 

 

[stort_mark]

I don't see how continuing on with your own business neither asking for or expecting anyone elses help is 'abandonment'. Abandoned implies, to my mind, some prior responsibility and here I see none.

Just the way I see it. I am not a ruthless evil selfish fiend or anything, but its my understanding that in life you rely on yourself and are ocassionally pleasantly suprised.

I would suggest that it does constitute 'abandonment', for the reason that our society and culture values supportive behaviour. Yes, we can fend for ourselves. This set of values can be seen in post-conflict Kosovo, Bosnia and in many developing countries.

I visit these kinds of places on a regular basis and I frequently feel like 'kissing the tarmac' when I return to western Europe and our sense of collective well-being.

 

You simply can't go around bad mouthing people for not going out of their way to salvage your day at the expense of theirs.

Yes he can. And he did. He wasn't asking for salvage. He was requesting assistance in an emergency and the other boater both allegedly refused to assist (because he was short of time) and then allegedly chose not to get assistance from anyone else as he had indicated he would do so.

 

This is a little like saying you will call the fire brigade, but then not doing it.

 

The OP's problems were his own until someone offered their time to help him out.

As is, let's say, someone who is knocked down by a car.

 

Look around - half the world is starving the other half is repressed to all hell. If we were all so amazing and kind and decent, would it be so?

This is why DFID exists; it's why people donate hundreds of millions annually to charity; it's why the country provides IDA to developing countries.

 

If you break down, how many of your expect someone to stop and replace your tyre for you? Its nice if it happens, but you don't watch all the cars buzzing past, write down all their regs, lookup their owners names and addresses and make a point of cussing them all on a public forum when you get home do you?

I am beginning to wonder if you appreciate how serious this situation was. It's a big river with quite a flow just upstream of a bridge. There was a real risk of the boat sinking and there were small children aboard. This wasn't "Tsk tsk, our paint might get scratched".

 

I honestly don't see how this scenario is different. Helping and being helped is nice, but its not natures way or indeed human nature (if we're honest) and can't be demanded of every passer by.

You're all heart, you!

[Dominic M]

I would suggest that it does constitute 'abandonment', for the reason that our society and culture values supportive behaviour. Yes, we can fend for ourselves. This set of values can be seen in post-conflict Kosovo, Bosnia and in many developing countries.

I visit these kinds of places on a regular basis and I frequently feel like 'kissing the tarmac' when I return to western Europe and our sense of collective well-being.

 

 

Yes he can. And he did. He wasn't asking for salvage. He was requesting assistance in an emergency and the other boater both allegedly refused to assist (because he was short of time) and then allegedly chose not to get assistance from anyone else as he had indicated he would do so.

 

This is a little like saying you will call the fire brigade, but then not doing it.

 

 

As is, let's say, someone who is knocked down by a car.

 

 

This is why DFID exists; it's why people donate hundreds of millions annually to charity; it's why the country provides IDA to developing countries.

 

 

I am beginning to wonder if you appreciate how serious this situation was. It's a big river with quite a flow just upstream of a bridge. There was a real risk of the boat sinking and there were small children aboard. This wasn't "Tsk tsk, our paint might get scratched".

 

 

You're all heart, you!

 

I think you put that very eloquently Mark. I've read through most of this topic, and it seems to me that the remarks you respond to, and one or two others, suggest that if one saw a person drowning, one would not do anything to help if it placed oneself at risk. I find that a cold and calculating view, and rather disturbing.

[stort_mark]

I think you put that very eloquently Mark.

Eloquently enough for a 20% discount off one of your boats?

[Dominic M]

Eloquently enough for a 20% discount off one of your boats?

Which one would you like?

 

Of course, none of them are mine. But I'll put it to the owner if you like.

[stort_mark]

Which one would you like?

 

Of course, none of them are mine. But I'll put it to the owner if you like.

I'll call or PM you....bit late now though.

[gaggle]

read the first few pages of this and stopped reading , it makes me sick to think anyone can leave people in such a situation .

to leave them is bad enough but to break your word after saying you would inform others that could help is the action of scum.

i hope when i read the rest of these posts it gets better , i am stunned.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

This their boat you think?

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?t=h&hl=e...000711&z=21

[philandiz]

Hello everyone. Ok. To straighten things up. Like i wrote, I was calmly assessing my next move when they turned up. Droppin our 60Lb anchor was going to be a last move but I was prepared to do it....maybe if I had swam ashore with a line to realise that it was not possible to secure the boat. Of course if the boaters had declined to help as it would have been placing themselves in danger then...but that section of the Calder is very wide and not menacing at all. You could easily turn an 80´ there let alone a 42 footer. What really amazed me is that the next 2 boats arrived 5 minutes apart. From where we were it is just over an hours cruise to the next lock (Castleford). 20 minutes later the first of the two boats arrived from downstream. In other words, they passed one another. Trevor, the guy that gave us a tow, definately remembered passing them although the cuiser couldn´t recall. Neither were told of our situation by any other boaters. They didnt stop because they didnt have time, not for any other reason.........

 

And thanks for the photos, Yes it looks like it was the bend in the first picture picture....After the disused railway bridge. The water looked about two foot deep off the starboard side which is what I was considering getting into to secure a rope. As for the anchor, trust me had we begun to drift I would have dropped it immediately. It is interesting there is so much response to my post. For the record, I would always try my best to offer help to anyone in a similar situation....even those on the boat in question. If I couldn´t help, I would do something to reassure the crew (genuinly mind) that I would go straight off to get help. Not sure the name of the place but downstream abolut 10 minutes away are loads of boats moored up. I would bet a fiver that if I were to drive down there and ask, not one of them was told about us last Saturday ( and lots of people were out on their decks!)

 

And I cant reply straight away due to lack of internet access...sometimes not on line for days!!

Edited September 5, 2008 by philandiz

[Chris Pink]

Droppin our 60Lb anchor was going to be a last move

 

Would have been a good first move in my opinion, keeping the rope as short as possible, would have secured the situation until you could raise a tow. This would have turned an emergency into a breakdown

[RichardH]

This their boat you think?

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?t=h&hl=e...000711&z=21

 

No that's Hunts Jock, a former Humber Keel which to my knowledge when I was at Fairies hasn't moved in years.

[Bones]

edit to delete wot I wrote.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Bones

[madrilin]

As Hobson says, "Helping and being helped is nice, but its not natures way or indeed human nature (if we're honest) and can't be demanded of every passer by".

 

No, help can't be demanded of every passer by. But there is a large amount of literature on the psychology of altruism. Some people think that the human race is successful (*) because of it's co-operativeness, rather than it's selfishness.

 

And as to 'human nature'. I'm probably mis-quoting but the philosopher Kant said something like 'you don't see the world as it is, you see it as you are'. So when people say this or that is human nature, it often says more about them than other people. lol! no offence!

 

 

*depends how you define 'successful'.

[Bones]

No, help can't be demanded of every passer by. But there is a large amount of literature on the psychology of altruism.

 

and the large majority of it (i.e. the literature) is in insects......

 

Some people think that the human race is successful (*) because of it's co-operativeness, rather than it's selfishness.

but most think insects are more successful, and if the human race is successful it is mainly due to their ability to cook.

 

As for Kant - never trust anything where you can muddle up the vowels.

 

Look, lets be fair here, it could have been beer they were rushing for

or to say the last rites to someone....

 

As Carlt says

 

999 and inform the emer services, The Coast Guard also respond to incidents on inland waters.

 

Even a lone Plod turning up on the bank would be able to catch a line thrown ashore and in some areas, police and fire services have a Marine Division

 

Hurrah to salty, and I am pleased to not that that doesn't mean you have to stop and tell the world and his mother that is exactly what you have done either.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Bones

[magnetman]

No, help can't be demanded of every passer by. But there is a large amount of literature on the psychology of altruism. Some people think that the human race is successful (*) because of it's co-operativeness, rather than it's selfishness.

 

And as to 'human nature'. I'm probably mis-quoting but the philosopher Kant said something like 'you don't see the world as it is, you see it as you are'. So when people say this or that is human nature, it often says more about them than other people. lol! no offence!

 

 

*depends how you define 'successful'.

Not offended at all. Its entirely right to say that "you don't see the world as it is, you see it as you are". I find the fact people see things differently makes the whole situation a bit more interesting.

 

And yes, it does depend how you define 'successful' is it having a nice big Range Rover or is it being willing to help somebody when there is no personal gain?

 

Looking at humans in general, I'd say its the Range Rover.

 

Just seeing it as I am I suppose. except I don't have a Range Rover .

 

I was in Waitrose recently and helped an elderly lady (it was Waitrose after all) get something down from the top of a display, something she couldn't reach. She thanked me. Later in the store I saw her again and she said 'I was meaning to ask you, where do you come from?'. I said 'I come from England' and she said 'Oh, I didn't know they made them like that any more'.

 

 

The point is that I think it is possible to see in humans what is actually there and not necessarily what you would like to think is there.

[Bones]

Whilst I agree with everything else you say, and this is not a criticism of your comments in particular, there is no argument (or at least no valid argument) that can be put forward which would suggest that you do not assist foolish people or that foolish people in distress (even if it is of their own making) should be undeserving of assistance.

 

Old fashioned or not, out of touch with modern society or not, the rule as far as I am concerned is that that you help first and curse their "foolishness" later when the situation is resolved.

 

BUT you ALWAYS help.

 

As was said earlier it doesn't matter if it makes you late for your own wedding, sometimes (but very very rarely) it doesn't matter if it mekes you early for your own funeral

 

You STILL try to help.

 

It is a sad day when I see fellow boaters suggesting otherwise

 

I think anyone would be only too pleased if I didn't stop to help - can you imagine the mess we would get into? and I certainly wouldnt go handing my children over to a complete stranger, nor would I abandon my boat unless it was necessary (and I would have done that the first time it broke down were the conditions that bad). I would phone someone as salty suggested, and I wouldn't waste time by explaining to all the other boats coming down stream that that was what I had done as it would be pretty obvious they would bump into them too. Then I would get on and get the on board vicar to his ceremony.

[Hair Bear Bunch]

Just a thought from a non NB owner- if a bow thruster was fitted, would it be powerful enough to hold the bow in place against the bank and how long could you safeley run it? Would it help in any way if you were drifting mid stream?

[madrilin]

 

As for Kant - never trust anything where you can muddle up the vowels.

 

 

HAHAHA stop it!

 

As I remember a lot of the stuff I read about the psychology of altruism delved into anthropology as well, but this isn't the time or the place......(and I did read it twenty years ago). I still believe being co-operative is best in most circumstances. I help you and you help me. I wonder if we've become more selfish post Thatcher? Hm?

Edited September 5, 2008 by madrilin