Creosote

[Ralph Claydon]

Hi

Does anybody know where i can buy Creosote?

Not the substitute but the original product. I want to try it on my fenders.

 

 

Ralph

[mikes]

I think you will find that it is officially illegal!!

 

You need to find someone with a shed in which supplies have been stored .

 

Mike

[rallyfan]

Hi

Does anybody know where i can buy Creosote?

Not the substitute but the original product. I want to try it on my fenders.

 

 

Ralph

 

I did my fenders last Autumn with substitute bought from Wickes. It looks the same, is the same colour, smell the same and seems to work as well as the real stuff.

[Machpoint005]

The original, real stuff is illegal for several good reasons - it poisons the fish, and is carcinogenic.

 

 

 

(edited so that the modern substitute has an apparent clean bill of health...)

Edited September 1, 2008 by Machpoint005

[Chris Pink]

Hi

Does anybody know where i can buy Creosote?

Not the substitute but the original product. I want to try it on my fenders.

 

 

Ralph

 

The substitute will probably be ok on your fenders but i do find it smells extremely obnoxious in a way that the real stuff isn't (i quite like it) for doing working boat floors and gunwhales

 

So if the substitute offends you you can still get the real thing from the wonderful Liver Grease. livegrease.co.uk

 

which reminds i need to stock up.

 

and as it is a coal tar product, it is no more harmful to the environment than coal but I would advise taking precautions to avoid it going in the canal.

[John Orentas]

I think Creosote is now one of those banned substances, but I found the replacement stuff quite effective.. Fifteen years ago I made myself a set of fenders, the back one from natural type rope, for many years I took them home and soaked them with the stuff..

 

The last time I saw them they were still going strong.

[NB Alnwick]

The original, real stuff is illegal for several good reasons - it poisons the fish, and is carcinogenic.

 

Coal tar creosote is not illegal and can still be found as an ingredient in several medicines, throat and cough sweets. The reason for its withdrawal from the shelves of DIY supermarkets is because the manufacturers and distributors prefer to sell the product in bulk and chose not to jump through the various hoops imposed under COSHH and H&S regulations necessary for its sale in small quantities.

 

For many years it was used to preserve fishing nets and in a nation that regularly enjoyed fish and chip suppers on a Friday we seem to have survived its effects quite well.

 

Like many other chemicals, creosote is harmful if significant amounts are ingested and in this respect would be harmful to aquatic life - but then so is 'Fairy Liquid'.

 

Supplies of creosote, Stockholm Tar and other products suitable for the preservation of ropes and fenders may be obtained from:

 

http://www.livergrease.co.uk/

 

No connection - and I haven't used them - so this is not a recommendation.

Edited September 1, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[RLWP]

Fifteen years ago I made myself a set of fenders, the back one from natural type rope,

 

OK, off on a little detour....

 

Hi John, can you remember how much rope you used to make your back fender? What style fender was it?

 

Ours is starting to look tatty and I'm fed up of weeding the nettles out of it, so I thought that I would set to and make a new cover.

 

Richard

[Machpoint005]

The substitute will probably be ok on your fenders but I do find it smells extremely obnoxious in a way that the real stuff isn't (I quite like it) for doing working boat floors and gunwales

 

So if the substitute offends you you can still get the real thing from the wonderful Liver Grease. livegrease.co.uk

 

which reminds i need to stock up.

 

and as it is a coal tar product, it is no more harmful to the environment than coal but I would advise taking precautions to avoid it going in the canal.

Not a matter of offence - more of reasonable social behaviour. If you have a rope fender soaked with the stuff, how on earth are you going to prevent it getting into the canal?

 

 

 

For many years it was used to preserve fishing nets and in a nation that regularly enjoyed fish and chip suppers on a Friday we seem to have survived its effects quite well.

There's a world of difference between a 5ft deep canal and a great big ocean!

[blackrose]

For many years it was used to preserve fishing nets and in a nation that regularly enjoyed fish and chip suppers on a Friday we seem to have survived its effects quite well.

For many years the build up of persistant organic pollutants in aquatic organisms, in the food chain and in us was not understood and not considered important.

 

Like many other chemicals, creosote is harmful if significant amounts are ingested and in this respect would be harmful to aquatic life - but then so is 'Fairy Liquid'.

Persistant organic pollutants (POPs) are so-called because they are resistant to environmental degradation and also because of bioaccumulation of these chemicals in the food chain and in the fatty tissues of animals. Of course direct ingestion of POPs (as with many other chemicals) would be hazardous, but because many POPs cannot be metabolised it is the bioaccumulation and build up of these chemicals within the body which is the real issue. Exposure can cause death and illnesses including disruption of the endocrine, reproductive, and immune systems; neurobehavioral disorders; and cancers. As far as I am aware Fairy Liquid does not contain any POPs.

Edited September 1, 2008 by blackrose

[Chertsey]

Not a matter of offence - more of reasonable social behaviour. If you have a rope fender soaked with the stuff, how on earth are you going to prevent it getting into the canal?

 

You let it drain off and dry out first, having taken the fenders off and given them a good soak in an old dustbin. Although I've heard tell that in ye olden days they just used to pour it over as they went along and let the prop chop the excess into the water.

 

We used the substitute on ours but I'm prompted by Alnwick's post to seek out the real thing next time

[Big Steve]

It's available from most farmers supplies and fence suppliers. You have to say you are "professional" to get around the health and safety rules.

[Smelly]

Not a matter of offence - more of reasonable social behaviour. If you have a rope fender soaked with the stuff, how on earth are you going to prevent it getting into the canal?

 

leave said ropework off for as long as it takes to not drip at all onto clean cloth, then it'll be dry. Buy some old sheets from a charity shop and change the sheets they lay on every couple of days; when the sheets are dry it won't drip anymore.

[blackrose]

Is there actually a real problem with rope fenders rotting away? I've had my bow & stern fenders on for 3 years and they look as good as when I bought them. On my last boat the fenders looked quite old and worn but not rotten. Why would rope fenders rot any quicker than ropes that were left outside to get wet and then dry? I thought the vast majority of rope on the market was made of rot-resistant polymers these days - isn't that the same for fenders? Mine look like they're made of black polypropylene. I'm not sure that putting creasote on plastic is a good idea? Or is this thread about preserving real hemp fenders?

Edited September 2, 2008 by blackrose

[carlt]

I thought the vast majority of rope on the market was made of rot-resistant polymers these days - isn't that the same for fenders? Mine look like they're made of black polypropylene. I'm not sure that putting creasote on plastic is a good idea? Or is this thread about preserving real hemp fenders?

Good point. I thought even authentic looking fenders are usually made of synthemp, these days.

 

On the subject of LiverGrease, though. They sell more "banned substances" than a crack-den and are essential for the needs of the wooden boat owner.

 

Long may they continue (though he says he's had enough, and is packing it in, every time I deal with him).

[NB Alnwick]

Is there actually a real problem with rope fenders rotting away? I've had my bow & stern fenders on for 3 years and they look as good as when I bought them. On my last boat the fenders looked quite old and worn but not rotten. Why would rope fenders rot any quicker than ropes that were left outside to get wet and then dry? I thought the vast majority of rope on the market was made of rot-resistant polymers these days - isn't that the same for fenders? Mine look like they're made of black polypropylene. I'm not sure that putting creasote on plastic is a good idea? Or is this thread about preserving real hemp fenders?

 

Our fenders are all made from natural fibres (as supplied by Tradline at Braunston) and will certainly rot unless they are properly looked after. Even with synthetic fibres, if they are left on the boat for any length of time, they will soon become the home of all manner of vegetation and insect life unless they get a regular dose of 'treatment'.

[blackrose]

Our fenders are all made from natural fibres (as supplied by Tradline at Braunston) and will certainly rot unless they are properly looked after.

Even with synthetic fibres, if they are left on the boat for any length of time, they will soon become the home of all manner of vegetation and insect life unless they get a regular dose of 'treatment'.

 

With hemp rope I would agree with you but I really don't think putting creasote on polymer ropes will do them any good at all.

 

My synthetic bow & stern fenders are fine after 3 years - no signs of vegetation and I don't mind a couple of spiders - that's the natural way to prevent insect infestations. They've never been treated and are never likely to be.

 

If synthetic rope products need treating surely that would go for synthetic mooring ropes too? I've never seen anyone treating them.

[Chertsey]

With hemp rope I would agree with you but I really don't think putting creasote on polymer ropes will do them any good at all.

 

My synthetic bow & stern fenders are fine after 3 years - no signs of vegetation and I don't mind a couple of spiders - that's the natural way to prevent insect infestations. They've never been treated and are never likely to be.

 

If synthetic rope products need treating surely that would go for synthetic mooring ropes too? I've never seen anyone treating them.

Agree about synthetic not needing it but I guess the difference between ropes and fenders made of natural fibres is that ropes regularly get the chance to dry out, whereas a fender that is natural all the way through (as they must have been in the past even if few are now) would stay wet for much longer, long enough to start rotting or getting things growing in it.

[blackrose]

Agree about synthetic not needing it but I guess the difference between ropes and fenders made of natural fibres is that ropes regularly get the chance to dry out, whereas a fender that is natural all the way through (as they must have been in the past even if few are now) would stay wet for much longer, long enough to start rotting or getting things growing in it.

 

No argument from me about hemp fenders - they do need treatment, but not plastic fenders. I've just looked at mine and they're in the same condition as when I first bought them apart from a few scuffs.

 

You wouldn't put creasote on your plastic car bumpers would you? So why your plastic fenders? The whole point of polymers is that they are extremely durable and resistant to water ingress & bacterial growth (rotting). Some may be susceptible to UV damage but that's a different issue. Synthetic rope may look like natural hemp from a distance but it isnt! Creasote will do nothing beneficial for plastic and in fact it can only damage the long molecular polymer chains that give plastic its strength so reducing the life of the fender.

[opus]

Creosote ban

 

Since 30 June 2003, creosote has been withdrawn from sale to householders. Stored creosote must not be used by householders and should have been disposed of safely and responsibly by 31 June 2004. The change in law is due to its recently found cancerous properties.

[NB Alnwick]

No argument from me about hemp fenders - they do need treatment, but not plastic fenders. I've just looked at mine and they're in the same condition as when I first bought them apart from a few scuffs.

 

You wouldn't put creasote on your plastic car bumpers would you? So why your plastic fenders? The whole point of polymers is that they are extremely durable and resistant to water ingress & bacterial growth (rotting). Some may be susceptible to UV damage but that's a different issue. Synthetic rope may look like natural hemp from a distance but it isnt! Creasote will do nothing beneficial for plastic and in fact it can only damage the long molecular polymer chains that give plastic its strength so reducing the life of the fender.

 

I agree and by 'treatment' I wasn't suggesting that plastic fenders should be soaked with creosote. In this case, the most appropriate treatment would be a good wash with clean water - or if very dirty, perhaps some detergent. If left damp and dirty, vegetation or mould will eventually accumulate.

[bag 'o' bones]

Saw some large containers of proper creosote for sale in Build Base at Market Drayton not far from the Shropshire Union.

 

It had got a skull and cross bones on the label so I would say its pretty good stuff.

[NB Alnwick]

Creosote ban

 

Since 30 June 2003, creosote has been withdrawn from sale to householders. Stored creosote must not be used by householders and should have been disposed of safely and responsibly by 31 June 2004. The change in law is due to its recently found cancerous properties.

 

Well the substance isn't actually 'banned' and can still be used as a preservative and as a food ingredient. As far as I know, the assertion that coal tar creosote is carcenogenic has not been proven and the withdrawal of small quantities from the domestic market was mainly due to the companies that control its supply who decided to avoid the expense of proving that it was safe for domestic use.

[opus]

The withdrawal of creosote products followed the timetable below:

28th February 2003 - ban on official dealers selling creosote and creosote based products

30th April 2003 - ban on all other dealers selling creosote and creosote based products

[carlt]

The withdrawal of creosote products followed the timetable below:

28th February 2003 - ban on official dealers selling creosote and creosote based products

30th April 2003 - ban on all other dealers selling creosote and creosote based products

Except to buyers who had the ability to store it to COSHH standards.