Commercial transport

[dor]

The following article is in the Times:

 

Canals set to make inroads on routes clogged by lorries

By Ben Webster Transport Correspondent

 

CANALS, once the arteries of the Industrial Revolution, are to return

to transporting goods in an effort to remove lorries from congested

roads. British Waterways, which manages 2,000 miles of canals and

rivers, has drawn up a plan to carry millions of tonnes of freight on

the network.

 

Leisure craft have dominated canals since the Second World War and most

of the recent projects to restore disused waterways have focused on

tourism, but congestion and the rising cost of fuel have prompted a

series of projects aimed at attracting freight back to canals.

 

Work will begin today to create a series of wharves on the Grand Union

Canal in West London. The first, at Willesden Junction, will allow

barges carrying waste to unload at a recycling plant, taking 37,000

lorry journeys off London's streets.

 

In the heyday of the canal network, from 1760 to 1840, more than 30

million tonnes of goods were carried each year on 5,000 miles of

waterways across Britain. In just two years, in the 1790s, 37 Acts for

the construction of new canals were passed by Parliament.

 

Canals went into decline with the rise of the rail network in Victorian

England, but it was the coming of the motorway in the 1960s that almost

finished off the barge as a mode of transport. By last year the

quantity of goods shifted by canal had dwindled to 1.6 million tonnes.

 

British Waterways plans to almost quadruple that figure, to 6 million

tonnes, by 2010.

 

The increasing pressure on industry and households to recycle is

helping to create a new market for canal-borne freight.

 

A spokesman for British Waterways said: "You are never going to want to

transport bananas by canal, but waste is not time sensitive. Using such

a green mode of transport also fits very well with the recycling

industry, which is growing fast."

 

With each household producing 1.5 tonnes of waste a year and half the

population living within five miles of a canal or navigable river,

British Waterways estimates that it could eventually carry 234 million

tonnes of waste a year.

 

The River Lee Navigation in East London is to be used to carry

municipal waste from Hackney to an energy-generating incinerator in

Edmonton. British Waterways is also planning to revive the Bow Back

Rivers, between Bow and Stratford in East London, to carry 6,000 tonnes

of goods a day, saving 75,000 lorry journeys per year.

 

The cost of moving goods by canal is cheap * British Waterways charges

only 1p per tonne for each kilometre travelled * but companies have to

factor in the cost of delivering goods to the canal and taking them to

their final destination, maybe two lorry journeys.

 

British Waterways believes that the solution is to build recycling

plants and distribution centres next to canals."

 

Now there are some big canals around, and moving freight on them makes sense, but I can't see many barges using the Shroppie. Yet here BW are using the statement that half of us live within 5 miles of a canal to justify the potential.

 

If commercial transport did return to the smaller canals, would they expect priority at locks?

[Amicus]

It aint going to happen, this is either “cloud cuckoo land” or BW manoeuvring for funds. Apart from one or two special cases, no way is canal transport viable. Canals have the same problem that the railways have, namely too much handling, load on a truck, off truck onto canal/railway and the same at the destination.

[Richard Bustens]

It would be nice to have some commercial traffic on the canals, that would mean that there would be a better maintenance program.

But would commercial traffic have priority over the rest and just shoot to the front of the locks to go through first.

[bottle]

Why not? The 'fly boats' did in the past and paid for the privilige

 

They will be earning an income and pay for the use. The licence charge will go to BW which has got to be good for the canals. Unless the goverment get their hands on it.

[Richard Bustens]

O yes i agree they should have priority but it will only work if there numbers are restricted, i would be no use if you were in a que and so many commercial boats came through as to make it so you did not get to move at all

[dor]

Shifting gravel on big canals I can understand. Moving stuff on small canals, especially narrow ones like the Shroppie, I can't see happening.

 

I can get 20 tonnes, on pallets, moved from Winsford to Wolverhampton say for about £300.

 

On the canal, firstly you have got to get it from the factory to the wharf, then load it (can't drive a fork lift onto a boat). Then say 3 days travelling to Wolverhampton, then transhipment again and final delivery. Minimum wage for the three days travelling would be about the same as the full cost by road.

 

I don't think we are going to see many boats overtaking us on the lock queue!

[fender]

Many places - like Paddington Basin - have been turned into playgrounds and supermarkets, whilst other potential wharves on the London Canals have been turned over to different uses that prevent commercial traffic returning.

 

I fail to see how BW will suceed at this. A good example of BW's mindset is its desire to live in Fawlty Towers (that's that ivory tower place we commoners call Shelton Square) so it hasnt even got genuine canal concerns any longer.

[stuart]

Shifting gravel on big canals I can understand. Moving stuff on small canals, especially narrow ones like the Shroppie, I can't see happening.

 

I can get 20 tonnes, on pallets,  moved from Winsford to Wolverhampton say for about £300.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dont think you would get individual loads delivered to you by canal.

 

What you would need is a large regular order of "stuff" (coal, brick, slate etc.) and then just a lot of boats sort of moving in a long conveyer chain that way you get a regular shipment delivered. Only really works for big companies though like power stations or brick merchants etc.

[nbtafelberg]

It would be nice to have some commercial traffic on the canals, that would mean that there would be a better maintenance program.

But would commercial traffic have priority over the rest and just shoot to the front of the locks to go through first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Only be nice if you are a good skipper. The ones on the Grand Union that come down through bulls bridge are a nightmare.

[John Orentas]

Why should we imagine that canal maintenance would be any better if commercial traffic of some sort were to return. BW would simply pocket the fees in the same way that they do now and spend the minimum amount on maintaining their system. In fact the condition of the canals is far better now than it was in the last half century of the carrying days.

 

Why should it be seen to be reasonable for us to give way to commercial traffic at locks, I for one don't accept that 20 tonnes of household rubbish should be given automatic priority over me.

[awatsonbcp]

i dont know if you noticed but the proposal is to move WASTE by barge .i am not thrilled at the prospect of sharing the cut with barges loaded with waste....and what about the risk of pollution ?

[nichimyo]

i dont know if you noticed but the proposal is to move WASTE by barge .i am not thrilled at the prospect of sharing the cut with barges loaded with waste....and what about the risk of pollution ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ooh, waste, lovely waste.

Domestic waste

Agricultural waste

Hazardous waste

Radioactive waste

Asbestos waste

Toxic waste

etc.

To say nothing of who the waste carriers might be and whether they have the correct licences, consignment notes etc.

And how long it would take to move anything from a to b while it is quietly festering away in the boat.

Not one of their better ideas, I would say...

[John Orentas]

Nichi.

 

You missed one, what about the night soil men, in the cities they would dump their precious cargo into an open boat moored below the nearest bridge. There was often a special square cut-out in the bridge parapet at ground level through which they would pour the commodity, it would eventually be taken off to the countryside and sold to the farmers.

 

You can still see some of these portals if you look closely but don't be confused by similar more modern ones cut into the masonry during the world war 2, they were for the use of the fire brigades to suck water out of the cut.

 

Happy days.

[dor]

The Manchester sh*t boat used to do a regular daily trip down the MSC to dump its load out at sea.

[Amicus]

The Manchester sh*t boat used to do a regular daily trip down the MSC to dump its load out at sea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that why there's a place just up the coast called Blackpool, innit

Edited May 12, 2005 by Amicus

[bottle]

All these negative vibes. keep cool, go with the flow. Nobody knows whether it will work but give it a go.

 

The system would be not be used for one offs but regular runs as said before, 'a conveyor belt'.

 

Also less pollution narrow boats use less fuel than lorries.

 

What does it matter if it takes three days instead of a few hours, just order it a bit earlier.

 

The cost is really irrelevant, keep using lorries and we will not have a world to live in.

[Richard Bustens]

Amicus

what does a blackpool donky get for it's lunch?

[nichimyo]

Nichi.

 

You missed one, what about the night soil men, ...

 

Happy days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What does it matter if it takes three days instead of a few hours, just order it a bit earlier.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well I did say "etc.". But hmm, yes, lovely 3 days old night soil

faints from aroma

[Amicus]

Amicus

what does a blackpool donky get for it's lunch?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dunno wot does he get for lunch?

[Amicus]

The cost is really irrelevant,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It might be irrevelant to yous Bottle, but we aint all in the same fort. pos.

[Jon]

I can see it happening on the larger waterways (ie Aire & Calder) however, how long does it take at the height of the summer to get through a crowded lock on some canals?

 

Would commercial traffic really be willing to wait? The more time the boat is stationary, the less cost-effective it is.

 

It's an interesting concept though...

 

Jon

[bottle]

I think I got mis-represented there (last two posts) or perhaps my way of expressing it was wrong.

 

Cost is irrelevant in money terms, if you want something you have to pay the price, there are many more costs involved i.e environment. The lorry/boat scenario is the best example, the boat will take longer obviously but willl use a lot less fuel. The enviroment (us) will benefit and also the fossil fuel will last longer.

 

Cost is not irrelevant to me, like everyone else I want the best at the cheapest price but the damage we are doing to this world has got to be controled.

 

Money is not worth anything, it is only paper, we have agreed for it to be a recognised bartering system thats all

[fender]

Money is not worth anything, it is only paper, we have agreed for it to be a recognised bartering system thats all

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Money is just a social construct indeed.

[John Orentas]

I'm still waiting to hear about the Blackpool donkey's lunch.

[DHutch]

Ffirstly you have got to get it from the factory to the wharf, then load it (can't drive a fork lift onto a boat). Then say 3 days travelling to Wolverhampton, then transhipment again and final delivery. Minimum wage for the three days travelling would be about the same as the full cost by road. 

I think this is were containers would fit in, only that the problem, they wont fit! (for tho who dont know a std Iso cargo container is 8ft, or waterways are 7)

 

- Shame tho, a TEU (20ft) and a FEU(40/45ft) would fit nicely on a 70ft'er

 

 

Daniel