Am I daft to want this boat?

[Mayflower]

Hiya,

 

I've got a chance to buy a 1972 boat, Harborough Marine, 60 ft or just under for about £16K.

 

I'm new to boating. Am I totally mad to be thinking of this? Would it be more 'sensible' (but nowhere near as much fun) to look for something a lot smaller or newer or needing less work if that's my budget?

 

sorry if this is the wrong place to post - I'm a newbie!

 

Mayflower.

[Chris J W]

Any pics or more details?

 

And as for are you being daft ... we're all daft for buying boats!!

[NB Alnwick]

Hiya,

 

I've got a chance to buy a 1972 boat, Harborough Marine, 60 ft or just under for about £16K.

 

I'm new to boating. Am I totally mad to be thinking of this? Would it be more 'sensible' (but nowhere near as much fun) to look for something a lot smaller or newer or needing less work if that's my budget?

 

sorry if this is the wrong place to post - I'm a newbie!

 

Mayflower.

 

Welcome to the forum 'Mayflower' - you have posted this in the right place, so no problems there.

 

Many of us are slightly mad on this forum (if you want proof - look at our boats!) so you are in good company! Nevertheless, in my opinion, there is no such thing as a cheap or bargain boat - you will pay one way or another and you get what you pay for! Even so buying a boat cheaply and then spending a lot of time restoring and refurbishing it can be very rewarding albeit often very frustrating

[alan_fincher]

I've got a chance to buy a 1972 boat, Harborough Marine, 60 ft or just under for about £16K.

 

I'm new to boating. Am I totally mad to be thinking of this? Would it be more 'sensible' (but nowhere near as much fun) to look for something a lot smaller or newer or needing less work if that's my budget?

Impossible to say on the info you have given.

 

Most 1972 Harborough boats will have reached the stage where a serious amount of replating is required. (Often "overplating" - new steel added over the top of old).

 

If this has already been done to a reasonable standard, then fine, but if it needs doing, then the boat is clearly overpriced. (Could easily cost £5K if it's needed).

 

At that age it's more likely to have a GRP cabin top than steel. These can be problematic, and often leak at joints if not properly maintained. A GRP cabined boat is inherently less valuable than a steel cabined one.

 

If you can post fuller details, preferably including pictures, people could give a better idea as to what kind of deal it might be.

 

An old boat doesn't have to be a bad boat, and it could be a bargain purchase, if most things are right. Equally it could be a "dog", and you might be in a situation of having to spend far more on it that is sensible.

 

How many boats have you looked at to compare too ? You can never view too many, and you start to get a feel for whether something is sensibly priced, or not.

 

A.

Edited May 10, 2008 by alan_fincher

[Mayflower]

Thanks for replies so far!

 

OK, it's out of the water so I can look at the state of the plating.

Yes it has a GRP top which is known to have shrunken away from the gunwhales a bit but reputed not to leak(!). Yes I've read the thread on leaking roofs.

 

Picture here:

 

It's got a Lister SR2 diesel, probably the original engine, Morso Squirrel stove and gravity-fed heating, lined in T&G, same on floor apart from hole in bathroom floor for inspecting water escaped from fore or aft bilges(!), louvre windows, side door to galley, pump-out loo, basin, hip-bath, space for porta-potti, 4ft bed, gas locker with bubble leak detector, galvanic isolator for the 240V system, manual for the engine. Out of the water for inspection and engine service so as to get its safety cert.

 

Owner says it's a bit big for two people to handle. I'm not going to be a liveaboard until I retire and that's a long way off yet!

 

Mayflower

Edited May 10, 2008 by Mayflower

[alan_fincher]

Needs better eyesight than mine to see from the picture if it's been overplated, and to what extent.

 

I'm not normally one who worries about smallish engines in big boats, but if it really is an SR2, (i.e. 2 cylinder), than at maybe 13hp, it's not overly large for a 60 foot boat. The SR3 (3 cylinder, 20hp), would be more normal in such an application. SR2 will be OK, but not have large reserves of power if used against a strong current on a river.

 

The Morso Squirrel, if it's in good nick, is a definite plus point. They don't come any better, and a new one would set you back around £500.

 

I'd be interested what others think about value, but if the hull doesn't need work, the price sounds "sensible" to me. If it did, then I feel it's definitely too much.

 

Alan

 

Edite to reduce the price of a new Morso Squirrel by a factor of 1000.

Edited May 10, 2008 by alan_fincher

[Chris J W]

Owner says it's a bit big for two people to handle. I'm not going to be a liveaboard until I retire and that's a long way off yet!

 

Eh? If I can handle a 57ft by myself, I'm sure two could handle on only three feet longer?

 

The Morso Squirrel, if it's in good nick, is a definite plus point. They don't come any better, and a new one would set you back around £500K.

 

Agreed. Squirrels are fantastic bits of kit. Though I'm sure Alan didn't REALLY mean to put the "K" at the end, there!

[Stourbridgeguy]

Needs better eyesight than mine to see from the picture if it's been overplated, and to what extent.

 

Alan in the corner above the clock there is a zoom application normal is !00%, if you click on the side slide next to the 100% you can expand up to 400%.

 

I have epanded the pic by 400% and can see evidence of overplatting.

 

Dave

[Ex- Member]

Looks like it's been out of the water a good few times judging by all those annodes. I zoomed in, can't see any obvious plating, looks a decent hull from that pic, but close inpspection will reveal more. If the hull is good and interior decent wind and water tight, then 16k sounds pretty good, although the GRP would put me off from a personal preference.

[Windjammer]

Depends what you want.

If you are not going to live aboard for a long time, and only want a weekender, then its quite a long boat.

 

My recommendation would be to look for a nice little 25 year old Colecraft or similar, of around 40-50ft.

 

Personally, I don't like louvre windows - drafty in the winter (great in the summer) and a bit of a security problem if

you plan leaving the boat unattended.

[Chris J W]

Depends what you want.

If you are not going to live aboard for a long time, and only want a weekender, then its quite a long boat.

 

My recommendation would be to look for a nice little 25 year old Colecraft or similar, of around 40-50ft.

 

Without wanting to cause a row (and you know how they can happen here!) - what's your thinking behind that? The only thing I can think of is cost.

[carlt]

Without wanting to cause a row (and you know how they can happen here!) - what's your thinking behind that? The only thing I can think of is cost.

A 40-50' colecraft would cost more than the harboro' and could have all the same problems.

 

Never too sure why a longer boat is considered too much for a single-hander. I've never noticed the difference, except the longer boat tends to swim better (and, in my experience, the harboro swims much better than any clonecraft.

[Chertsey]

Amazed no one's said it yet, but consider getting a survey, use that to get the price down to what it's worth if necessary.

And it's a design classic in the making. Restore it to its former 70s glory and have a boat that's a little bit different.

[stort_mark]

Amazed no one's said it yet, but consider getting a survey, use that to get the price down to what it's worth if necessary.

And it's a design classic in the making. Restore it to its former 70s glory and have a boat that's a little bit different.

 

Nice point! Put in lots of formica and plastic-covered seats and orange and blue plastic and you could get it on TV.

Edited May 10, 2008 by stort_mark

[Windjammer]

There's no reason why they shouldn't have a 70ft, but if its their first boat and its only for weekends, my advice would be

to start at the smaller end and work up. Longer boats are more difficult to wind, will need more work doing (more surface area/more internal space) and will cost more to moor.

 

A friend of mine bought a 39ft 1980 Colecraft for £19k about 2 years ago.

 

Without wanting to cause a row (and you know how they can happen here!) - what's your thinking behind that? The only thing I can think of is cost.

[carlt]

There's no reason why they shouldn't have a 70ft, but if its their first boat and its only for weekends, my advice would be

to start at the smaller end and work up. Longer boats are more difficult to wind, will need more work doing (more surface area/more internal space) and will cost more to moor.

 

A friend of mine bought a 39ft 1980 Colecraft for £19k about 2 years ago.

I'm not sure why a longer boat is more difficult to wind, less places to do it, perhaps but a full length boat is just as easy to handle as a shorter one.

[Windjammer]

It seems that I have touched a bit of a nerve with people with longer boats.

Its not about handling - its about places to moor, the cost of mooring and ease of winding in more places.

You simply don't need a 60footer to have a good time.

 

I'm not sure why a longer boat is more difficult to wind, less places to do it, perhaps but a full length boat is just as easy to handle as a shorter one.

[carlt]

It seems that I have touched a bit of a nerve with people with longer boats.

Its not about handling - its about places to moor, the cost of mooring and ease of winding in more places.

You simply don't need a 60footer to have a good time.

My boat's 51' and I can't turn it in it's own length, like I could with my 72 footers. My 30' walton required forward/reverse/forward reverse, to spin it round, my full length motor would be pointing the other way in one go.

 

I agree you don't need a longer boat for fun, but they ain't that much more hassle.

[Chertsey]

Nice point! Put in lots of formica and plastic-covered seats and orange and blue plastic and you could get it on TV.

Do you know how hard it is to get Formica these days? We did find some in the end though, for our 1970 Callumcraft's new (teak-edged) table. It still has its original upholstery in blue vinyl with white piping...

[Chris J W]

There's no reason why they shouldn't have a 70ft, but if its their first boat and its only for weekends, my advice would be

to start at the smaller end and work up. Longer boats are more difficult to wind, will need more work doing (more surface area/more internal space) and will cost more to moor.

 

A friend of mine bought a 39ft 1980 Colecraft for £19k about 2 years ago.

 

So £3k more than the 60ft (not 70ft) boat in question? So, is it really a cost question?

 

(And I would have thought a full length boat, due to design of boat and of the system, would be easier to wind?)

 

 

Anyway ... and apologies if this thread could drift (for which I did take a part in, sorry!) ... I would say that in this case Size Isn't Important.

 

Amazed no one's said it yet, but consider getting a survey, use that to get the price down to what it's worth if necessary.

And it's a design classic in the making. Restore it to its former 70s glory and have a boat that's a little bit different.

 

Agreed on both points.

 

One of the first boats I considered was a Harborough - there is just something about that bow design.

 

[edit for format]

 

FURTHER EDIT - Started A New Thread on the subject of boat-length for beginners. Seems there's could be some diverse opinions and views to be discussed, and wouldn't like to hijack the OP's question much further.

 

Mods - could you keep an eye and re-direct "lengthy" comments to the new thread as needs be? Ta!

Edited May 10, 2008 by Chris J W

[carlt]

Amazed no one's said it yet, but consider getting a survey, use that to get the price down to what it's worth if necessary.

Yes a "subject to a satisfactory survey" smiley could be useful.

[Mayflower]

Wow! Not only lots of help but a flame war in the making - I'm flattered :-)

 

Re size - yes I know it will cost lots more in moorings, plus more to paint and more length for leaks to mastic up!

 

I've seen a very small one (Lynton at the Used Boat Comapny at Hanbury Wharf [url="http://www.theusedboat.co.uk/"[/url] (I can't add the precise link cois it's a dynamic link)) for the same sort of price. Most of the 40-50 ft ones I've seen (on the web) are all mid-twenties or more.

 

'Lynton' looks more 'sensible' as a weekend boat - though I can see domestic friction resulting from one pullout bed on any occasion when one of us wants to be up when the other one want to be sleeping! And there's no room for friends.

 

Getting a survey - yes, I intend to. Haggling the price down is harder - I'm more likely just to back off.

Have I looked at lot? Not really. I fell in love with one last autumn whose owner/seller went from mad keen for me to view to not answering any emails with no warning so I never did go and see it. The ones I've looked at since (on the web) have been more than I really want to pay at this stage. The only one I've looked at in the flesh (er, steel?) needed far far FAR too much work for me to take on. (I'm working full time).

 

There may be lots of good boats too far away for me to be able to buy - I can afford a weekend off to view it but not 3 weeks cruising to get it to where I could go and see it most weekends! So it has to be within sensible reach of north Lancs or, failing that, in the west midlands.

 

FORMICA????? Wasn't that the 60s? To do a 70's refit wouldn't I be thinking in terms of indian cotton bedspreads, joss sticks and Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells" drifing from the louvred winsdows every evening? :-)

 

Please don't start a new thread on 'how long should a newbie's first boat be?' - I'm enjoying this one.

 

Cheers,

 

Lisa (Mayflower)

[Water-rats]

The Morso Squirrel, if it's in good nick, is a definite plus point. They don't come any better, and a new one would set you back around £500K.

 

 

 

Alan

 

£500K!!!

Thats a good deal more than they say on the website. Please tell me that its a typo

[Chris J W]

Please don't start a new thread on 'how long should a newbie's first boat be?' - I'm enjoying this one.

 

Cheers,

 

Lisa (Mayflower)

 

Tough! Already done!

 

It's good to see you've an eye on praticallity and, the main thing, costs.

 

Where abouts are you based?

[Mayflower]

Where abouts are you based?

 

North Lancs. Nearest canal is the Lancaster dead leg. Nearest mainline is probably Skipton or possibly Blackburn.