Mayflower

But that doesn't satisfy my curiosity as to what it is! Sure, if it's a child harness it shouldn't be used. But the buckle is good and if it is a dog harness I very much doubt its integrity is so shot that it wouldn't hold a bull terrier daft enough to try to jump overboard to catch a duck.

It would certainly fit on a small person that way, yes. I guess I was assuming that the clasp was only the right way up when the writing was the right way up (it says Italy on one piece) and the wider end of the buckle was at the top so that the clip to the line was not pinched. I could do more pics to illustrate but basically the clips that came with it were nice strong ones that fitted through the wide and of the buckle but not through the narrow end.

I really don't see how a child would fit into it... If you put the clasp at the front and the front straps at full extension over the shoulders, there would be a great long loose loop down the child's back.

I bought this at a charity fund-raising stall at a canal festival some time ago. It had a standard clip-on safely line securing it - single clip on the harness clasp - two lines (to two clips) for fastening to a running line, maybe. It's a Trem harness so it can't have been cheap when it was new! After fiddling with it for ages I've come to the conclusion it must be for a dog! Can anyone confirm that that's what it is? Or tell me what it really is... :-) As I haven't got a dog I'll probably donate it to the next canal-related charity stall I see - but it would be good to be able to put a label on it saying what it is! :-) The second photo shows how I think it would be fitted, though my cat is the wrong size and shape (and way too grumpy) to model it very well!

Hi All, I promised an update when I finally got the starter motor problem fixed. Here it is! Thanks again to Tony Brooks for the diagnostic sequence - which confirmed that it was the starter motor and not just the solenoid. Thanks to the person who mentioned that Dave Craig was on the Macc - and to Princess Gilly for making the contact. After several weeks of neither Dave nor us being able to get to the boat at the same time, he came to it yesterday. It was a bit of a <expletives deleted> to get apart (the oil filter has to come off first and the bottom bolt on the starter motor is about a foot longer than it needs to be with very rusty threads!) but yes, the starter was totally seized up. So now we have a working one and the engine started first time despite the (brand new) battery having been sat idle for 9 months. All is now charged, water and oil levels checked and *next* time we go to the boat we'll actually be able to take it out! Many thanks to Dave - he was brilliant. Many thanks to folk here for getting me on the tracks to getting it sorted. Cheers, Lisa

Princess Gilly - Dave Craig, yes? We spoke on Friday. Trying to sort out a date! Bizzard - there's always one isn't there? :-P Do feel free to send your Aunt Mabel but I won't be paying her travelling expenses unless she can do more than just look! :-)

A marine motor mechanic based on the same canal has agreed to come and look - after our afternoon wrapped round the engine we are not confident we've got the tools/arm muscles/know-how to get the starter motor off the engine without damage to either it or (more likely) us. I've assured him that we have done enough tests for it not to be a flat battery = total waste of his time. If the motor pinion clutch is goosed then we'll need someone to source a repair/replacement anyway. It will be the week after next before he and we have matching dates to get to the boat. I'll post updates for people when there is news. Thank you all again for the expertise, the banter and the general friendliness. Lisa

So I go and look for a swing bridge on the L&L with a handy boatyard nearby? Oh no - they've already sold the starter motor!! :-)

Thank you for all your thoughts. Just to add/reiterate: It's NOT the battery - it does exactly the same with a fully charged portable battery in parallel. We didn't actually do yesterday's measurement with the powerpack in parallel (there is a limint to the number of things we can get in the engine compartment at once!) but we know that even with a fully-charged powerpack the symptoms are identical. We know that powerpack can start that boat when the main batter is flat and the the starter engaged so the powerpack isn't knackerd too! Sounds like starter motor off is definitely the next step (oh bliss...) It's not easy to reach! At least now (thanks to you all) we've got the phone number of a man who is willing to come to the boat and the details of starter motor factors an easy drive distance away!

The engine compartment was rebuilt - the engine had to come out and then go back in but wasn't itself rebuilt. All the wiring is new and very good (the previous was an incomprehensible rat's nest). The boat started at least once after the rebuild - for the rebulder to return it to us. The problem emerged the next time we tried to start it - about a month later. Gotta go to bed now - I'll be back in the morning (late morning!) Lisa

Earth strap looks fine and we didn't get 'several volts' between battery neg and starter case - we got 0.3V

Right - the Meter Maid is back! Did a few things before starting methodically through Tony's list. 1. (to check the analogue voltmeters in the boat) Battery voltage shown by on-board meter before cranking 13V. While cranking (or at least trying to) 10.2V 2. Sound - I was wrong about the moan. It does a t'clunk't and then a Brrrrrrr as it vigorously winds something round and then the same t'clunk't as you turn the key off again. You can listen to it here: http://www.whistlecroft.net/samples/starter.wav 3. The starter motor does not get hot. Then worked through Tony's List with the following results (all well within spec). 1. Voltmeter across battery lead post to lead post. Expect 12V + dropping to 10V minimum. as you operate the starter. That is a Lucas figure, I would accept 9V+ at this stage. Less that that = a discharged or faulty battery. 12.36V dropping to 10.46V 2. Voltmeter across the metal battery clamps, expect the readings obtained above with a reduction of (say) 0.3 volt while cranking. A higher reduction = dirty battery terminals. Remove, clean and dress with Vaseline 2.305V dropping to 10.40V 3. Meter across the master switch terminals - only take reading while cranking. Expect all but zero volts. More than about 0.5 indicates dirty/faulty internal contacts. Didn't do this - required either the person squeezed in around the engine to wriggle out again or the meter-reader to grow VERY long arms. Decided to come back to this only if the readings further down the chain were out of spec. If not - the switch should be OK, yes? 4. Meter across the two large nut & stud terminals on the starter - only take reading while cranking. Expect all but zero. More than about 0.5 = faulty solenoid contacts. 0.12V To check the wires and terminals: 5. Meter between battery negative and the starter body (scrape paint away) or starter negative terminal - only take reading when cranking. Expect less than 0.25 (Lucas figure) but I would accept a LITTLE higher. Anything much higher indicates undersized cables or faulty cable to terminal connection(s). 0.32V - and we didn't scrape the motor body which isn't painted but which has a patina of probably non-conductive age. 6. Meter between the battery positive terminal and the main battery lead terminal on the solenoid - only take reading while cranking. Expect less than 0.5 volt (Lucas figure) more indicates undersized cables or faulty cable to terminal connections. Variable between 0.48 and 0.5 So it looks as if the (new) wiring is as sound as it looks. 7. If all the above are in spec. and the starter body remains cool then it is an internal brush problem so a good whack with a shoe heel, rubber/wooden mallet or at a pinch a good tap with the mooring hammer may free it enough to start. This is not to be undertaken on any modern starter than uses permanent magnet field coils. All above were in spec and the motor body remained cool. I was the meter reader, the other half of the team had volunteered to be the one in the engine. He wallopped it gently with a rubber hammer (it's hard to wallop it harder than gently as there is very little room around the motor and some fuel-providing parts immediately by it (see later). This had no effect, after two lots of gentle whacking. Dug out metal mooring pin hammer and tapped it with that (again no room for a decent swing to give a sharper whack, even if we had the nerve). Also no effect. Tried to take the aluminium end cover off to see if we could get at the brushes but the fuel supply gubbins prevents it coming off. So it looks as of we're gonna have to take the entire starter motor off - which is NOT going to be straightforward as, of the three long bolts that hold it on, the one at the bottom that we can't see is loose - which probably means it's got a seized-up cross-threaded nut somewhere where we can't see! We called it a day at that. Will have to go back, obviously but away in the Midlands next week. Thank you for the diagnostic sequence and figures. Looks like 'duff starter motor' - oh bliss! Lisa

Silly me - I know it's not the battery as the first thing we did was try it with a fully charged portable one in parallel!

Thank you! The battery was brand new after the refit - and the first failure was only a few weeks after - even our old battery went longer than that between starts so I really don't think it was the battery then (even if it is now) - open circuit voltage on the meter for the battery was over 12V. Before the refit we had some years of sluggish starting and the engine would at least try to turn - this feels and sounds different. Anyway I've now got lots to try and I'll report back after tomorrow!

Thank you all! Yes, it definitely goes click and it sort of groans a bit almost as if the battery is dead (but it isn't). This from memory - I'm going back to the boat on Thursday and will do proper tests as per Tony's suggestions and also make a more accurate description of the sound. Sorry - it's been a while since I tried it - had some other non-boat stuff to deal with. Encouragement to resurrect my diagnostic skills (and then, if necessary my taking things apart skills) much appreciated. More sensible reply when I've been back to the boat (with a decent DVM). Lisa/Mayflower