"Cash for your narrowboat"

[Chris J W]

Ok, as the end of my license draws near and I try to work out if to renew and carry on or move back to the bank, I'm obviously looking at various options over the next few months and no where near making my mind up yet.

 

However, there's several ads in the mags and places like Wilton Marina that'll offer "Cash for your boat today" ... what sort of market value can you expect to get though? I'd say "Jean Margaret" could probably sell for about the same as I paid, and whilst I'm not looking to make a great profit IF I decide to sell in a hurry I'd rather not take too much of a loss, either!

[blackrose]

IF I decide to sell in a hurry I'd rather not take too much of a loss, either!

 

Like houses, boats can take months or years to sell. If you don't want to make too much of a loss then don't sell in too much of a hurry - chances are you can't have it both ways.

Edited April 2, 2008 by blackrose

[Chris J W]

Like houses, boats can take months or years to sell. If you don't want to make too much of a loss then don't sell in too much of a hurry - chances are you can't have it both ways.

 

Oh, I understand that. It's just the degree of loss that I'm interested in, if you see what I mean.

[Tusses]

I'd ask a broker to value it, with a view to putting it on their books - and then mr cash happy to value it and see what the difference is.

[Orca]

Looking at the amount of boats for sale I'd say the general sales climate is poor relatively speaking! Just been looking at the boats for sale on Ebay and there does seem to be one too many bargains about. We are drifting into a recession after all (apparently). Whilton won't offer anywhere near what you paid I bet..

[tillergirl]

If they are like the people who ewll buy your house for cash today it'll be "up to 85% of the market value". Hope this helps

[blackrose]

If they are like the people who ewll buy your house for cash today it'll be "up to 85% of the market value". Hope this helps

 

Sorry, I know you're talking about a cash offer, but it makes me laugh when I hear estate agents (and property owners) talk about how currently a house or flat would only fetch a certain % of it's market value. When will they understand that this figure is its new market value?

Edited April 2, 2008 by blackrose

[tillergirl]

Not necessarily. The adverts in our local rag are directed at people who want to sell their houses quickly for wahtever reason. All they do is offer under what its been advertised at in the hope that you are that desparate you will sell. I do know one or two that have gone that way but they've been left to sons /daughters and they just sell and split whatever money they make. It does'nt make the rest of the houses in the street worth the same.

Edited April 2, 2008 by tillergirl

[chris w]

Ok, as the end of my license draws near and I try to work out if to renew and carry on or move back to the bank, I'm obviously looking at various options over the next few months and no where near making my mind up yet.

 

However, there's several ads in the mags and places like Wilton Marina that'll offer "Cash for your boat today" ... what sort of market value can you expect to get though? I'd say "Jean Margaret" could probably sell for about the same as I paid, and whilst I'm not looking to make a great profit IF I decide to sell in a hurry I'd rather not take too much of a loss, either!

 

If someone gives you cash for your boat with a view to their selling it on, don't forget they need to make a profit too so you will never get the same money as selling it privately to a new owner. They will probably be looking to make at least 20%. Below this it's not worth the cost of financing the money, nor the risk vs reward profile.

 

So, if you reckon your boat is worth what you paid for it (it's actually worth what you can get for it of course) then a cash deal will be around 80% of that price presumably.

 

Chris

[blackrose]

Not necessarily. The adverts in our local rag are directed at people who want to sell their houses quickly for wahtever reason. All they do is offer under what its been advertised at in the hope that you are that desparate you will sell. I do know one or two that have gone that way but they've been left to sons /daughters and they just sell and split whatever money they make. It does'nt make the rest of the houses in the street worth the same.

 

It does if they want a quick sale too!

 

As I said earlier, if you want a quick sale (of anything), then you may have to accept less than the full market value. However, perhaps the reason that so many property sellers now seem to want a quick sale is because they can see which way the market is heading. If this practice becomes widespread then the market value of all property will start to reflect what is happening in the market.

 

Of course, if the owners of the other houses in the street have no intention of selling then they need not worry themselves about the value of their property - the value is as a home or perhaps a rental property. However, as soon as they decide to sell and enter the marketplace they may find themselves competing against other properties on the street which have been significantly reduced in value, which unfortunately will have an effect on the value of their own.

 

And just to think, it was only a few years ago when everyone thought this couldn't happen!

Edited April 2, 2008 by blackrose

[chris w]

Don't worry.... it's just a small blip.... they'll be back up again in 18 months. It's like the stock market, a bull market is great but eventually self limits so rumours are spread, the bears return, buy up tons of cheap stock (or houses) wait 18 months, market gets back to where it was or higher. Sell the lot, make a tidy return. Bosh Bosh, job done. Start more rumours. It's the same with houses. We are just the pawns on the board.

 

If you have ever studied game theory, you can see the why the rumours work simply because no-one wants to be the one without a chair when the music stops.

 

Chris

Edited April 2, 2008 by chris w

[Keeping Up]

If they are like the people who ewll buy your house for cash today it'll be "up to 85% of the market value". Hope this helps

Sorry, I know you're talking about a cash offer, but it makes me laugh when I hear estate agents (and property owners) talk about how currently a house or flat would only fetch a certain % of it's market value. When will they understand that this figure is its new market value?

I talked to one of these guys last year, it was a fascinating education in doublespeak.

 

They were "guaranteeing" in their adverts to buy a house for 85% of its market value. The house was being advertised for £200k. They agreed that it was being offered for sale at the right price (which was about 85% of the £230k which our mutual estate agent had said he thought it might fetch).

 

Their logic was - if £200k is the price it's being offered at, then the market value is 85% of that, which is £170k. So therefore they would offer us 85% of £170k, which was £145k,

 

From £230k to £145k in three easy steps! And yet they made it sound so logical.

[Chris J W]

I talked to one of these guys last year, it was a fascinating education in doublespeak.

 

They were "guaranteeing" in their adverts to buy a house for 85% of its market value. The house was being advertised for £200k. They agreed that it was being offered for sale at the right price (which was about 85% of the £230k which our mutual estate agent had said he thought it might fetch).

 

Their logic was - if £200k is the price it's being offered at, then the market value is 85% of that, which is £170k. So therefore they would offer us 85% of £170k, which was £145k,

 

From £230k to £145k in three easy steps! And yet they made it sound so logical.

 

I think my head has just imploded ....

[Machpoint005]

I talked to one of these guys last year, it was a fascinating education in doublespeak.

 

They were "guaranteeing" in their adverts to buy a house for 85% of its market value. The house was being advertised for £200k. They agreed that it was being offered for sale at the right price (which was about 85% of the £230k which our mutual estate agent had said he thought it might fetch).

 

Their logic was - if £200k is the price it's being offered at, then the market value is 85% of that, which is £170k. So therefore they would offer us 85% of £170k, which was £145k,

 

From £230k to £145k in three easy steps! And yet they made it sound so logical.

If an offer sounds too good to be true ... it is. (I'm quite happy to miss out on the 1% to which this doesn't apply).

 

But Blackrose is dead right - a house, or a boat, is worth what someone will pay for it. No more, no less.

 

Ian

[NB Alnwick]

If you have ever studied game theory, you can see the why the rumours work simply because no-one wants to be the one without a chair when the music stops.

 

Spot on! And with all the spin and cyber-media available these days the rumours grow so much quicker.

 

Just like musical chairs - if you think you stand a chance of losing, put the game on hold and play something else. This is not a good time to be selling houses or boats.

[tillergirl]

Bit like our street - the houses on our side of the street generally sell for more than those on the other side. Why? Because we have gardens that are south facing - simple really. It seems that people would rather pay a little more for a sunny garden than a sunny living room.

 

And I agree this is not the right time to sell. We had anticipated that we would put our house on the market this year but have deicded to wait and see how the markets goes. Every estate around here seems to be having a Spring Sale. We're in no rush.............

Edited April 2, 2008 by tillergirl

[Keeping Up]

And I agree this is not the right time to sell.

It most certainly isn't.

 

Of course sometmes you just don't have a choice (such as trying to sell a house on behalf of the estate of a deceased relative)

[chris w]

And I agree this is not the right time to sell. We had anticipated that we would put our house on the market this year but have deicded to wait and see how the markets goes. Every estate around here seems to be having a Spring Sale. We're in no rush.............

 

This of course is a "good thing" and the reason why these things are always cyclical. Because in an apparent down-turning market, many people hold back from placing their house on the market if they don't have to, the supply of houses becomes less which eventually causes house prices to rise again.

 

Then house prices rise to where 1st time buyers genuinely can't afford them, so chains break down, and house prices start coming down again. These things are self-regulating.

 

Chris

[Enforcer]

If they are like the people who ewll buy your house for cash today it'll be "up to 85% of the market value". Hope this helps

 

 

Wishfull thinking, more like 45% if you try the names mentioned above lol, and youll get all the same excuses as for why where ever you go

[blackrose]

If you have ever studied game theory, you can see the why the rumours work simply because no-one wants to be the one without a chair when the music stops.

 

Chris

 

But a similar mechanism works in a bull market too. Everyone was happy to accept the benefits of the property market boom which was largely based on exaggerated property values, so they can hardly complain when the shit hits the fan.

[RogerSalmon]

However, there's several ads in the mags and places like Wilton Marina that'll offer "Cash for your boat today" ... what sort of market value can you expect to get though? I'd say "Jean Margaret" could probably sell for about the same as I paid, and whilst I'm not looking to make a great profit IF I decide to sell in a hurry I'd rather not take too much of a loss, either!

A well known marina (who shall remain nameless) sold a narrowboat about a year ago for £42,000

The owner lived on it in a marina for 12 months. He didn't look after it very well, so it deteriorated a bit (but not a lot!)

When he tried to sell it for cash back to the original marina, they offered him £16,000 . . .

 

Another owner who needed t sell his live-aboard in order to be able to buy a better one, sold it 'for cash' for £18,000

Two weeks later (having been tidied up for a few hours) they put up for sale for £28,000

 

Why would anyone sell their boat 'for cash' unless they were REALLY desperate???

[Chris J W]

Why would anyone sell their boat 'for cash' unless they were REALLY desperate???

 

Easy answer, perhaps, purely to release an asset with minimal loss - I never believed getting a narrowboat would be profit making! .

 

As I said, I'm just looking at options for the near future.

 

So no-one here had direct experience?

[chris w]

But a similar mechanism works in a bull market too. Everyone was happy to accept the benefits of the property market boom which was largely based on exaggerated property values, so they can hardly complain when the shit hits the fan.

 

I agree Mike, but to many people in the know, there is just as much money to be made in a bear market too.

 

Firstly, selling an asset (or to be pedantic a promise to sell an asset) which one doesn't yet own, at today's price, on the basis that when I have to actually buy that asset (to sell on) the price will have dropped and I make a margin. (That's how share traders make money in a bear market for example). Secondly, I wait till house prices drop low, estimate when the market will start to flatten out, and go buy a portfolio of property which I sell as prices rise again and make another margin. Debt is currently so cheap (in historical terms, the lowest for 40 years) that it feeds this type of activity. It also feeds the greed that led to the sub-prime fiasco which is causing the current credit and banking crunch.

 

Of course there's high risk but high risk, tempered by very high returns, is a very tempting option for some.

 

Chris

[NiceNarrowboat]

Sold my first boat very quickly - less than a month. All parties happy with price. If you have a boat that is going to meet a wide range of people's 'tick list' then they sell without a problem. If you have a 'quirky' boat, they don't. The first boat I ever bought had been on the market for six months - way overpriced - so we stepped in much lower offer which was accepted. Like all things I used a simple formula- what can I afford v. what is reasonable v. what do I really want? When I sold her, I sold her for more than I paid for her (and more than her initial asking price from previous owners) - because I'd looked after her and improved her with a view to reselling her! She went quickly because although I could have waited for another £4K, I wanted the cash funds for other things. Practical decision, no more, no less, no regrets.

 

I've seen too many ego-priced boats up for sale - either they forked out a lot to build the boat in the first place (and never considered resale/individuality factors which affect the 'tick list') or they listen to the boatfitter tell them what it is worth - which is merely an ego trip trying to boost their prices for their next new boats! I've noticed a few boats which are ratio-ed to 'investment' and, quite frankly, are never going to sell - they have already been oversold when being built.

 

Simple: Ask yourself: What can I afford to let her go for v. what have I invested in her since I bought her v. with what are similar boats going for? Find your limit upper and lower end, and accept what comes first in between - that is a quick sale Leave ego at home/off internet. Job done.

[LEO]

Hi,

 

A fair reply from 'Nice Narrowboat' and perhaps the most logical. When selling anything you have to work out your market, and pitch your price just ahead or at what that maket will pay. Thus, in a sellers market prices can be alittle optomistic, but in a buyers market you have to pitch them much more keenly and be prepared to take a knock. It' s better to get cash in the bank than to have the asset sitting round costing you money.

 

I dealt with the property market, repos and analysis of same for years, particulary in the crash of '89 and it all boils down to people spending more than they can afford.

 

The areas where prices are low are the last to increase in price, that increase will be rapid, these areas are then the first to fall in price and price falls will be rapid.

 

Troughs and peaks in any market are caused by irresponsible lending and spending of money.

 

Beware anyone who say's 'I will buy your house for cash' - if a private buyer I found they were normally telling 'porkies' and if a Company they would do ANYTHING to 'screw' the price down as low as possible.

 

Selling boats - I was faced with owning 2 boats in November 2005 - broker suggested asking price of £18250, ( I felt value about £16000) but stated she had 'someone who would pay £15000', deal done with that purchaser PDQ. ( I was happy - bought the boat for £9500 19 years previously). In real terms to me that boat was worth £14500 cash - to project a 'real' figure you should deduct all the costs of sale.

 

I had cause to look back at a house transaction completed in 1991 for someone yesterday, checking the relative papers , the mortgage offer gave the rate of interest as 14.5% now that really does concentrate the mind.

 

ATB

 

Albi