Lister Jp2 parts & Lister blackstone gearbox wanted

[Pinkatpole]

Wanted

 

Lister Blackstone 2:1 reduction gearbox and reverse gear box for Lister JP2.

 

May consider more modern version

 

Various marinising parts for JP2, including :-

 

23" flywheel ring gear

Top of engine hand start gear.

Dry sump tank

Exhaust silencer

Circulating water pump

 

Infact anything JP2 or JP3 considered.

 

Or if anybody can supply any help in locating any jp2, jp2M, jp3, pp3m spares

[onthecut]

Wanted

 

Lister Blackstone 2:1 reduction gearbox and reverse gear box for Lister JP2.

 

May consider more modern version

 

Various marinising parts for JP2, including :-

 

23" flywheel ring gear

Top of engine hand start gear.

Dry sump tank

Exhaust silencer

Circulating water pump

 

Infact anything JP2 or JP3 considered.

 

Or if anybody can supply any help in locating any jp2, jp2M, jp3, pp3m spares

 

Hi Pinkatpole,

 

I'm sure you are aware, but just in case, don't forget the marine JP is substantially different from the industrial units, so it might help your search if you specify whether it is a marine or industrial unit you are looking to complete and how much of it you actually have. Good luck.

 

Mike.

[dove]

Wanted

 

Lister Blackstone 2:1 reduction gearbox and reverse gear box for Lister JP2.

 

May consider more modern version

 

Various marinising parts for JP2, including :-

 

23" flywheel ring gear

Top of engine hand start gear.

Dry sump tank

Exhaust silencer

Circulating water pump

 

Infact anything JP2 or JP3 considered.

 

Or if anybody can supply any help in locating any jp2, jp2M, jp3, pp3m spares

 

Pete Dumelow might help you phone 01283 564292

 

Andrew

[Pinkatpole]

Hi Pinkatpole,

 

I'm sure you are aware, but just in case, don't forget the marine JP is substantially different from the industrial units, so it might help your search if you specify whether it is a marine or industrial unit you are looking to complete and how much of it you actually have. Good luck.

 

Mike.

 

 

Cheers Mike

 

Its an industrial unit I am going to convert, which currently has no form of marinisation.

 

The industrial unit is complete and running, however it might not be if I have to remove the crankshaft to machine it to suit a Blackstone box !!!

 

 

Pinkatpole

[Timleech]

Cheers Mike

 

Its an industrial unit I am going to convert, which currently has no form of marinisation.

 

The industrial unit is complete and running, however it might not be if I have to remove the crankshaft to machine it to suit a Blackstone box !!!

Pinkatpole

 

Will you then put the flywheel on the other end?

 

Tim

[onthecut]

Cheers Mike

 

Its an industrial unit I am going to convert, which currently has no form of marinisation.

 

The industrial unit is complete and running, however it might not be if I have to remove the crankshaft to machine it to suit a Blackstone box !!!

Pinkatpole

 

Speaking purely personally, I think you will save yourself a lot of time and effort if you have suitable bracketry arranged to take a PRM or similar, which you could even mount remotely if more convenient. This would save the need to undertake time consuming and likely expensive work making modifications for a Blackstone box. I appreciate that's no use of course if you're going for the full authentic installation.

 

Mike.

[GUMPY]

A couple of points

 

1: the flywheel (as Tim said) is at the wrong end of the engine and I think will need a new crank to move it.

 

2: Tim will correct me but I think that the actual casting of the block is not the same so even if you move the flywheel the blackstone box wont mate.

 

It would be easier to search for a JP2m that to do what you propose.

 

Why not just add a PRM box or hydraulic drive it will be much simpler and cheaper.

[Timleech]

A couple of points

 

2: Tim will correct me but I think that the actual casting of the block is not the same so even if you move the flywheel the blackstone box wont mate.

 

 

I think you're right, but wasn't certain as I've never tried to do this.

If it weren't such a dark and stormy night, I might have gone across to look at my JP3 genset to see whether there's anything resembling the register for fastening a gearbox.

It might be the same casting, but with extra machining done to accept the gearbox?

 

Tim

[PaddingtonBear]

There is no cheap way to get a 'vintage' setup. There are so few proper marine engines around that even those very close to the action are paying fortunes to get any that are around. As with every thing the only way to do it is properly and to rely on the advice of those on this forum and elsewhere who have done it for years. There are no short cuts!!! certainly not the sort that recently saw a madman saw off the end of the end of a Kelvin crank to try and make it fit!!!. What will happen with is that the very limited stock will diminish further as chancers ruin engines beyond repair. If you want to know how to do it properly see either Warrior Woman's article in Nov. Canal Boat, her blog nbwarrior.blogspot or perhaps more relevant in this case Steve's National 3D rebuild (it is a generator engine and I think he will be using a PRM set up) which can be accessed from the Warrior blog. Steve is obviously a super proper engineer but is casting near and far to get as much info. as possible before going ahead.

Edited March 1, 2008 by PaddingtonBear

[Pinkatpole]

Hello All

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Had the engine running today, fired on second start attempt and after very little tinkering, she runs perfectly with no knocking, wierd and unwonderful noises etc

 

Having studied the engine further, have decided to forget about a blackstone box as it is probably an unnecessary and difficult job and I do not want to disturb a perfectly good crankshaft and bearings etc.

 

Also have decided not to attempt to copy the JP2 M, as this would involve tying to locate various original parts that are not particularly necessary to get an industrial unit operating correctly in a newer installation, and I do not particularly require a full authentic installation.

 

I would rather the installation be that of a converted industrial JP2 rather than a JP2 converted to a JP2M.

 

This leaves me now with the following requirements:-

 

Non original lister blackstone box, probably PRM or similar

 

Recirculating water pump to run off a pulley system, off the flywheel, together with alternator.

 

Probably no dry sump, still can not figure out the exact reasoning for the dry sump. (Any advice would be helpful).

 

26" ring gear for the flywheel (it has the larger flywheel fitted) to facilitate electric start.

 

Would still like to leave a hand start facility and may consider this from the flywheel end on a suitably mounting from where the original belt pulley drum was fitted, unless I can obtain an over top hand starting mechanism as per the JPM series.

 

Will certainly have a look at Warrior Womans blog.

 

As I am still in the research stage, any further comments and advice are most welcome. The more information the better.

 

I am not considering ordering a shell until I have this sorted and as I still have my current 57ft previous build I am in no particular rush. This build will be my last one, having done 2 others previously, so Im willing to take my time and get it right first time (ish).

 

However I am still after contacts for JP2 / M spares to see what I can find.

 

Thanks all

 

Pinkatpole

 

Mods

 

Would this topic be better in boat building & maintenance, I could then post a wanted for just JP spares

[onthecut]

Hello All

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Had the engine running today, fired on second start attempt and after very little tinkering, she runs perfectly with no knocking, wierd and unwonderful noises etc

 

Having studied the engine further, have decided to forget about a blackstone box as it is probably an unnecessary and difficult job and I do not want to disturb a perfectly good crankshaft and bearings etc.

 

Also have decided not to attempt to copy the JP2 M, as this would involve tying to locate various original parts that are not particularly necessary to get an industrial unit operating correctly in a newer installation, and I do not particularly require a full authentic installation.

 

I would rather the installation be that of a converted industrial JP2 rather than a JP2 converted to a JP2M.

 

This leaves me now with the following requirements:-

 

Non original lister blackstone box, probably PRM or similar

 

Recirculating water pump to run off a pulley system, off the flywheel, together with alternator.

 

Probably no dry sump, still can not figure out the exact reasoning for the dry sump. (Any advice would be helpful).

 

26" ring gear for the flywheel (it has the larger flywheel fitted) to facilitate electric start.

 

Would still like to leave a hand start facility and may consider this from the flywheel end on a suitably mounting from where the original belt pulley drum was fitted, unless I can obtain an over top hand starting mechanism as per the JPM series.

Will certainly have a look at Warrior Womans blog.

 

As I am still in the research stage, any further comments and advice are most welcome. The more information the better.

 

I am not considering ordering a shell until I have this sorted and as I still have my current 57ft previous build I am in no particular rush. This build will be my last one, having done 2 others previously, so Im willing to take my time and get it right first time (ish).

 

However I am still after contacts for JP2 / M spares to see what I can find.

 

Thanks all

 

Pinkatpole

 

Mods

 

Would this topic be better in boat building & maintenance, I could then post a wanted for just JP spares

 

I think you are making a sensible decision re. the Blackstone conversion.

There is no shortage of suitable boxes about; I'd go for a Prm 260 or corresponding Borg Warner. The JP doesn't have loads of horesepower, but it does have plenty of low down torque and you're taking a chaqnce with any lesser box.

Jabsco do the type of pump you are thinking about. If there's not a thermostat in the sytem at present, you need to work out where you will fix one.

Dry sump -- pointless on the cut. Basic purpose is to ensure continuity of oil feed where excessive angles or oil movement would otherwise lead to starvation as oil rushes away from the pump pick up in the engine sump. You'll need to be going some on the canal to achieve that !

I'd be pragmatic about the flywheel and check out the costs. If you come across a 23" already set up for electric, I'd go for it. If you wind up machining yours, don't forget to make some cost enquiries outside the world of boats. The marine tag tends to have a very unhealthy impact on costs.

When considering the hand start issue -- have you got rocker cover decompressors or crankcase side ? If the latter and you only have the knobs and not a linking rod and lever, you'll not have long enough arms to operate the knobs while cranking -- making it a two person job.

 

Mike.

[Timleech]

I'd be pragmatic about the flywheel and check out the costs. If you come across a 23" already set up for electric, I'd go for it. If you wind up machining yours, don't forget to make some cost enquiries outside the world of boats. The marine tag tends to have a very unhealthy impact on costs.

When considering the hand start issue -- have you got rocker cover decompressors or crankcase side ? If the latter and you only have the knobs and not a linking rod and lever, you'll not have long enough arms to operate the knobs while cranking -- making it a two person job.

 

Mike.

 

Re the flywheel, AFAIAA Listers only supplied one size of ring gear, which was used on both flywheel sizes. On the smaller flywheel, the result was a rather vicious saw!

I happen to have a rather less than perfect large Lister ring gear, pm me if you're interested.

Also I've very successfully fitted a 'compact' ring onto a smaller flywheel, machined in situ on the wheel (not in situ on the engine!)

Some details at

http://web.onetel.com/~duttondock/Index/Li...IndexLister.htm

Notes written more for an 'engineering' readership, & also not organised into a smart web page .

 

Tim

Edited March 3, 2008 by Timleech

[gary4lw]

Re the flywheel, AFAIAA Listers only supplied one size of ring gear, which was used on both flywheel sizes. On the smaller flywheel, the result was a rather vicious saw!

I happen to have a rather less than perfect large Lister ring gear, pm me if you're interested.

Also I've very successfully fitted a 'compact' ring onto a smaller flywheel, machined in situ on the wheel (not in situ on the engine!)

Some details at

http://web.onetel.com/~duttondock/Index/Li...IndexLister.htm

Notes written more for an 'engineering' readership, & also not organised into a smart web page .

 

Tim

Nice work . Gary

[Proper Job]

Re the flywheel, AFAIAA Listers only supplied one size of ring gear, which was used on both flywheel sizes. On the smaller flywheel, the result was a rather vicious saw!

I happen to have a rather less than perfect large Lister ring gear, pm me if you're interested.

Also I've very successfully fitted a 'compact' ring onto a smaller flywheel, machined in situ on the wheel (not in situ on the engine!)

Some details at

http://web.onetel.com/~duttondock/Index/Li...IndexLister.htm

Notes written more for an 'engineering' readership, & also not organised into a smart web page .

 

Tim

Sir

 

I doff my cap to you. A quality bit of engineering

[denboy]

I had the same sort of conundrum trying to connect my kelvin to a prm 160 as it was going to cost an arm and 2 legs to have the kelvin box re manufactured so ive mounted the gear box on a 8" x 6" angle iron bolted and welded then a 12 prop shaft (universal joints at both ends just in case it wasnt dead straight) connecting it to the engine had to get a flange made to fit on the engine to match up to the propshaft

 

 

oh and i`m sure ive got an over head hand start knocking about off a pj3 if its any good to you

Edited March 3, 2008 by denis boyle

[onthecut]

I had the same sort of conundrum trying to connect my kelvin to a prm 160 as it was going to cost an arm and 2 legs to have the kelvin box re manufactured so ive mounted the gear box on a 8" x 6" angle iron bolted and welded then a 12 prop shaft (universal joints at both ends just in case it wasnt dead straight) connecting it to the engine had to get a flange made to fit on the engine to match up to the propshaft

 

Taper lock fittings for most standard size shafts are readily available from most commercial bearings stockists, which may save you some time and trouble in acquiring a suitable flange for the crankshaft, if you don't already have one.

 

Mike.

[Pinkatpole]

I had the same sort of conundrum trying to connect my kelvin to a prm 160 as it was going to cost an arm and 2 legs to have the kelvin box re manufactured so ive mounted the gear box on a 8" x 6" angle iron bolted and welded then a 12 prop shaft (universal joints at both ends just in case it wasnt dead straight) connecting it to the engine had to get a flange made to fit on the engine to match up to the propshaft

 

 

oh and i`m sure ive got an over head hand start knocking about off a pj3 if its any good to you

 

 

Dennis

 

I hope you didnt unbolt all that lot, take the photos, and then refit it for my benefit.

 

Are you on the Thomas Covenant at Castle Marina. I think I looked at her about 10 years ago, when she was on brokerage.

 

I am only in Chilwell, will pm you reference the hand start

 

Cheers Pinkatpole.

[magnetman]

You could use a dynastart instead of a starter and ring gear. A friend of mine has done this with a JP3, a nice quiet start rather than the clash of metal on metal. He's used those old fashioned clip together leather belts and a very big pulley.

[onthecut]

You could use a dynastart instead of a starter and ring gear. A friend of mine has done this with a JP3, a nice quiet start rather than the clash of metal on metal. He's used those old fashioned clip together leather belts and a very big pulley.

 

As a matter of interest, did he find a new unit or come across a one off ? I'm curious as I really would like to find a reliable source.

 

Mike.

[magnetman]

It seems to be new. I think Bosch make them still. I'll try to find out. He built the boat at industry narrowboats stretton on the shroppie. They might know where he got it.

[Pinkatpole]

Not considered that but maybe worth considering. Another thing to think about

 

Possible clicky but it wont click as I dont know how to do that

 

 

http://www.woodauto.com/component.aspx?ref=DST10001

[Proper Job]

I have to be honest and admit that I don't have any real experience of dynastarts.

 

I remember one being on a yacht engine (many years ago) that a friend had. It wasn't very reliable as I recall - but that have just been his!

 

Insn't the advantage that as well as a starter, once the engine is running, they turn in to a dynamo?

[Pinkatpole]

Again I have had no experience of them

 

However the unreliability problem from trawling the internet generally seems to be around the dynamo function with relation to charging ability and not the starting part

[Proper Job]

Again I have had no experience of them

 

However the unreliability problem from trawling the internet generally seems to be around the dynamo function with relation to charging ability and not the starting part

I think that was his main beef as well. Very limited use of the engine (going in and out of harbour) and a very low output rating on the dynamo often left the batteries in a poor state.

 

For NB use it would be OK for starting batteries(?) with another alternator for domestics(?). It might work quite well?

[Chris-B]

I hve seen a "conversion" on a BS5 type starter where they had removed the pinion and fitted a "rubber" pulley wheel

This was then fitted to a swinging frame which could be held against the flywheel when starting. It worked very well

The engine was a JP2 but on a sea boat application

Unfortunantly I cannot remember whos boat it was now

Chris