Plastic bags

[blackrose]

What about all the huge black sack the councils hand out every week. The binmen dont like emptying bins unless all the rubbish in the bin is in plastic bags!

We on boats at least re-cycle them as waste sacks.

 

Alex

 

I'm all in favour of this belated nationwide debate, but I hope it doesn't degenerate into a witchhunt against plastic packaging altogether. In terms of food preservation & hygiene this relatively new class of materials resulted in some amazing environmental achievements. The problem is that for single trip packaging applications they are mostly over-engineered, but the core issue has more to do with our lifestyles.

 

You buy a sandwich from Tescos - 5 minutes later the sandwich has gone but the ultra-lightweight plastic packaging that contained it might be hanging around for the next 100 years or more. The packaging performed and fulfilled it's functions well: it stopped the sandwich from getting squashed right through the distribution chain, kept it fresh, had adequate clarity to allow you to view it's contents and tempted you to buy it. The point is that our consumption intensive lifestyles demand this sort of packaged product and I'm afraid that developments in environmental solutions are slow to accrue and cannot possibly keep pace with our increasing consumption patterns.

[DHutch]

Cant say ive read the thread, but i think a charge (5pence?) per carrier back should be introduced.

 

- Ive also always thought it was odd that (in tescos) you get points for every bag you reused.

- So if i take 20bags, and put and item each, i get far more than if i take just two bags and fill them full.

 

 

Daniel

[Chickadee]

Chickadee,

 

you should worry! II have friend who stands in supermarket queues removing excess packaging, which she then hands to the assistant, before putting her (much smaller) purchases in a hemp shopping bag! People behind her get fed up, but she makes her point felt...

 

Stickleback

 

Haha fantastic!! I havent ever done that, far to scared! I do do most of my shopping off the market though so i dont get much packaging in my shop anyway.

 

The amount of packaging my housemates terrible food comes in is shocking, sausage rolls, microwave burgers and kebabs and pizzas all at least double wrapped. The foods so bad though he may as well eat the wrapping instead.

[saltysplash]

On our recent trip up the Paddington arm the water was surprisingly clear in places and so were the large ammount of submerged carrier bags...lurking for a victim

 

Not only that, Also a large amount of Coal bags which i recon could only come from one source.....boaters

[blackrose]

I have friend who stands in supermarket queues removing excess packaging, which she then hands to the assistant, before putting her (much smaller) purchases in a hemp shopping bag! People behind her get fed up, but she makes her point felt...

 

...by a checkout person on £5.30/hour who can do nothing about the problem and whose life is probably tough enough already without some idiot in the queue making things more difficult...

 

In fact in terms of volume, the amount of packaging that we chuck away is nothing compared to the amount of food that's thrown away.

[Chickadee]

...by a checkout person on £5.30/hour who can do nothing about the problem and whose life is probably tough enough already without some idiot in the queue making things more difficult...

 

In fact in terms of volume, the amount of packaging that we chuck away is nothing compared to the amount of food that's thrown away.

 

If everyone did this though it would filter up through management and something would get done. Shops do listen to customers!

 

As for more food being thrown away, food is Biodegradable. Plastic is not! The amount of food throw away is disgusting esspecially when there are people starving but its not going to harm the world as much as packaging.

Also if there was less packaging people would buy less food. I cant belive how much fruit and veg is double wrapped in supermarkets! It doesnt need wrapping once let alone twice! I regularly dont buy stuff because i know i would end up throwing half of it away.

[Dominic M]

So how did Ireland manage it? They're also an EU member state after all.

 

They introduced a tax on them in 2001. Before that Ireland was littered with carrier bags - flapping in hedgerows etc. Apparently their use has reduced by 90%.

 

 

It was ironic humour

 

Has anyone out here tried fitting an ironic isolator? Do they work?

[Lady Muck]

I have never seen the logic in putting biodegradable dog's poo in plastic bags! Who wants to preserve it?

Sue

 

Thats why we buy biodegradable poo bags - they rot within two weeks.

 

Anyway, round here we have lots of industrial estates, they are all very fond of pallets. Pallet wrapping is like plastic bags but more evil. Be careful on the River Lee above Tottenham Lock, up as far as Enfield Lock, thre are bits of pallet wrap floating around that is metres long.

[Purple Fairie]

.....I even have degradable 'poo' bags for my dogs (which were'nt easy to find).

 

We use them from here...

www.envirobag.co.uk

[blackrose]

If everyone did this though it would filter up through management and something would get done. Shops do listen to customers!

 

As for more food being thrown away, food is Biodegradable. Plastic is not! The amount of food throw away is disgusting esspecially when there are people starving but its not going to harm the world as much as packaging.

Also if there was less packaging people would buy less food. I cant belive how much fruit and veg is double wrapped in supermarkets! It doesnt need wrapping once let alone twice! I regularly dont buy stuff because i know i would end up throwing half of it away.

 

Ok then if the supermarkets listen to their customers why not just go to customer services or give them a call to complain, why give the poor checkout person a hard time? There's no need for customer dissatisfaction to "filter up" to management when it can go there directly!

 

Food is biodegradable, but you along with many others have fallen into the misconception that this means it's environmentally benign. As I explained in the second post on this thread, biodegradable materials which end up in landfill (approx 78% of municipal solid waste goes to landfill in this country), can degrade anaerobically producing methane, a gas with a 25-30 times the global warming potential of CO2. Landfill sites are much more suited to inert materials including plastics. Can you see which is more harmful to the environment now? Litter is a different issue - the blame for that lies with those who discard their packaging anti-socially & irresponsibly, not the producers.

 

I agree that many items are overpackaged - I never disputed this point, when I mentioned food waste I was merely trying to give this debate some perspective & context. Unfortunately like many things in life, waste management is actually quite a complex subject. Most people like simple answers but they really need to educate themselves a bit more before they become so entrenched in their arguments.

Edited February 29, 2008 by blackrose

[Dominic M]

Ok then if the supermarkets listen to their customers why not just go to customer services or give them a call to complain, why give the poor checkout person a hard time? There's no need for customer disatisfaction to "filter up" to management when it can go there directly!

 

Food is biodegradable, but you along with many others have fallen into the misconception that this means it's environmentally benign. As I explained in the second post on this thread, biodegradable materials which end up in landfill (approx 78% of municipal solid waste goes to landfill in this country), can degrade anaerobically producing methane, a gas with a 25-30 times the global warming potential of CO2. Landfill sites are much more suited to inert materials including plastics. Can you see which is more harmful to the environment now? Litter is a different issue - the blame for that lies with those who discard of their packaging anti-socially & irresponsibly, not the producers.

 

I agree that many items are overpackaged - I never disputed this point, when I mentioned food waste I was merely trying to give this debate some perspective & context. Unfortunately like many things in life, waste management is actually quite a complex subject. Most people like simple answers but they really need to educate themselves a bit more before they become so entrenched in their arguments.

My better half has done a lot of work for landfill companies - she recently was under contract to a company called Infinis - who are investing massive sums of money into power generation from landfill gas - not least because they receive a guaranteed premium price for the electricity produced.

[blackrose]

My better half has done a lot of work for landfill companies - she recently was under contract to a company called Infinis - who are investing massive sums of money into power generation from landfill gas - not least because they receive a guaranteed premium price for the electricity produced.

 

Yes, there's certainly a resource there, I'm not sure but I think the landfill site has to be at capacity and capped before any gas can be drawn off?

 

In the future, old landfill sites may even be mined for metals. Imagine that!

[blackelle123]

We use them from here...

www.envirobag.co.uk

 

Thanks for the link, but I found food bags are cheaper and just as o.k. to use. Carrying dog poo around isn't everyones idea of 'a nice walk' but its a must if you want to make sure that your not being responsible for someone else stepping in your dogs poo.

Where I live, its great because 99% of dog owners do pick up and yes there are a few that think that a bag of dog poo makes a nice hedgerow decoration. It would make more sense if we could teach our dogs to 'do it' where no-body walks and then it would degrade nicely, as per mother nature. But, to date I haven't found a dog that is that considerate of human footware. So for the time being (until my dogs learn to use and empty the cassette loo) I will be picking up after them.

http://ecotopia.co.uk/index.jsp?cName=home...;pg=1&mnu=1 200 for 99p

[NB Alnwick]

Thanks for the link, but I found food bags are cheaper and just as o.k. to use. Carrying dog poo around isn't everyones idea of 'a nice walk' but its a must if you want to make sure that your not being responsible for someone else stepping in your dogs poo.

Where I live, its great because 99% of dog owners do pick up and yes there are a few that think that a bag of dog poo makes a nice hedgerow decoration. It would make more sense if we could teach our dogs to 'do it' where no-body walks and then it would degrade nicely, as per mother nature. But, to date I haven't found a dog that is that considerate of human footware. So for the time being (until my dogs learn to use and empty the cassette loo) I will be picking up after them.

http://ecotopia.co.uk/index.jsp?cName=home...;pg=1&mnu=1 200 for 99p

 

It might be better if you just took a small shovel and removed dog poo from the path to a place of safety - i.e. under a hedgerow where the bugs can feed on it and it is safely away from little humans.

[blackelle123]

It might be better if you just took a small shovel and removed dog poo from the path to a place of safety - i.e. under a hedgerow where the bugs can feed on it and it is safely away from little humans.

 

That works great when going on a proper hike, but I don't think that the local council would quite understand when I'm found furtively shovelling poo in and around the local park, plus I think I would get a rather large fine. I look bad enough now as it is - everytime I go into my pocket for a hanky or anything, theres bags everywhere. We do our best!

[John R]

Oh how I dream of an end to plastic bags and plastic bottles which are also everywhere these days.

What ever happened to string bags - they fit in your pocket when empty and hold no end of stuff. Tried to buy some on the interweb last year and the only source I could find was in New Zealand!!!

Anybody know of a source???

[Jason Wilson and Family]

That works great when going on a proper hike, but I don't think that the local council would quite understand when I'm found furtively shovelling poo in and around the local park, plus I think I would get a rather large fine. I look bad enough now as it is - everytime I go into my pocket for a hanky or anything, theres bags everywhere. We do our best!

 

One has to wonder what sort of fines the local wildlife run up. When will the council learn, life takes feces.

[blackrose]

Oh how I dream of an end to plastic bags and plastic bottles which are also everywhere these days.

What ever happened to string bags - they fit in your pocket when empty and hold no end of stuff. Tried to buy some on the interweb last year and the only source I could find was in New Zealand!!!

Anybody know of a source???

 

Ok, but try using a string bottle!

[Nige G]

I was under the impression that any wasted food from these big supermarkets is sold to animal feed manufacturers and not just dumped in landfills?

[Chris J W]

I was under the impression that any wasted food from these big supermarkets is sold to animal feed manufacturers and not just dumped in landfills?

 

IIRC that used to be the case back in the olden daze (sic) - most schools, for instance, had "pig bins" outside for pig food. But these days with the unfortunate advent of BSE etc the food chain to animals is far more controlled.

 

(edit for grammer)

Edited March 3, 2008 by Chris J W

[WJM]

We had pig bins

 

Half the pigs died that day after Yogurt in plastic pots was introduced!

 

After that we didnt have pig bins

[Lady Muck]

It's even worse in the Ocean!

plastic reef

[blackrose]

I was under the impression that any wasted food from these big supermarkets is sold to animal feed manufacturers and not just dumped in landfills?

I'm sure some does go to be processed into animal feed, but there are strict rules governing what can and can't be fed to animals and a lot of supermarket food as well as household food waste goes into landfill.

[blackrose]

It's even worse in the Ocean!

plastic reef

I didn't know it was that large - that's horrendous!

[NB Alnwick]

I didn't know it was that large - that's horrendous!

 

Plastic is believed to constitute 90 per cent of all rubbish floating in the oceans. The UN Environment Programme estimated in 2006 that every square mile of ocean contains 46,000 pieces of floating plastic.

 

Puts it in context doen't it?