Batteries

[Smelly]

Is it me or has the price of leisure batteries soared in the last couple of years?

 

I got some from MC 2 years ago exactly for about 40 quid a piece, they're 75 now!!! Limekiln are £62.

 

Anyone know any cheap suppliers in West Mids area?

 

To anticpate the likely debate, we live aboard, I service 'em every 2 months since we fitted the alernator controller (sterling) but the performance is still steadily dropping. Big inverter load, charging off the engine so rarely fully charged. methinks the word is f**ked.

 

Luv and hugs b

 

Dan

[Geoff]

Give this firm a try

 

Battery factory shop,

Unit 20, Rovox Business park, Hay hall road, Tyseley. 0121 683 1113.

 

May not be open every day

 

Geoff

[steelaway]

Is it me or has the price of leisure batteries soared in the last couple of years?

 

I got some from MC 2 years ago exactly for about 40 quid a piece, they're 75 now!!! Limekiln are £62.

 

Anyone know any cheap suppliers in West Mids area?

 

To anticpate the likely debate, we live aboard, I service 'em every 2 months since we fitted the alernator controller (sterling) but the performance is still steadily dropping. Big inverter load, charging off the engine so rarely fully charged. methinks the word is f**ked.

 

Luv and hugs b

 

Dan

 

Hi There.

 

They become even more expensive when you buy cheap ones.

Two years is a terribly short life for any battery, most are guaranteed for longer than that. Take them back?

The most expensive component of a battery is the lead. I have no doubt that the price of lead along with most metals on the world market has risen susbstantialy.

Yus get wot yu pay for. The better the battery the more lead it will have in it, the heavier it is.

For example my battery's weigh 28Kg (4.4 stones) - EACH.

 

Alex

[Smelly]

Give this firm a try

 

Battery factory shop,

Unit 20, Rovox Business park, Hay hall road, Tyseley. 0121 683 1113.

 

May not be open every day

 

Geoff

£75

 

need I say more

[Smelly]

Hi There.

 

They become even more expensive when you buy cheap ones.

Two years is a terribly short life for any battery, most are guaranteed for longer than that. Take them back?

The most expensive component of a battery is the lead. I have no doubt that the price of lead along with most metals on the world market has risen susbstantialy.

Yus get wot yu pay for. The better the battery the more lead it will have in it, the heavier it is.

For example my battery's weigh 28Kg (4.4 stones) - EACH.

 

Alex

 

Lend us £400 then!

[chris w]

No-one ever said boating was a cheap hobby!

Mind you, staying at home isn't cheap either. I just had my heating oil tanks filled this morning and it cost over £2000! When I moved in here 8 years ago the bill was around £800. And it only lasts 3 months!

 

Chris

Edited February 8, 2008 by chris w

[Smelly]

I'd be one of the first people who'd agree that boating isn't cheap, however I'd be at the very front of the doing it cheaply queue, and most of my friends would be clamouring to get in front of me.

 

I'd love to be one of those people who had sufficient funds to spend £100 on each battery but I'm not, I'm too busy spending every last penny fitting the damn thing out and paying mortgages and loans taken out to achieve my dream.

 

So, without turning this into a splenetic rant about people who spend £100K on a piece of steel to leave it in a marina for 50 weeks of the year while us people who actually have a passion for boating instead of status symbols get priced out of the market I will say simply this...

 

Does anyone know any cheap battery suppliers in the West Mids?

 

On a differnt note, I know several boaters who think 2 years is about right when you're fitting out a boat using mainly an inverter to power all your tools and living aboard, charging from the engine so only using the middle 25% of the charging range for 8 or so months a year when we're not cruising; running the engine every day to charge 'em. I've hammered my batteries and they're coming to an admittedly foreshortened but not altogether unexpected end.

 

Yes I've done a power audit!

 

Have I drunk too much coffee or am I justly peeved at people telling me what I already know but didn't ask in the first place?!

[chris w]

If you're only going to charge them from the engine without an external alternator controller then you will be knackering them into an early grave. This is because you will only be charging them to about the 70% level and hence they will sulphate up.

 

If you use an external alternator cntroller and/or a multistage mains charger, you should get at least 4-5 years from them (unless you're a liveaboard).

 

Chris

[Smelly]

"(unless you're a liveaboard)".

 

exactly...

 

And we only put the alternator controller on a couple of months ago in the hope we'd squeeze another year out of 'em but I thnk it was too late, as after an initial improvement the performance is sliding off the scale again.

 

As an aside, I put one of those de-sulfation units on at the same time, and I wonder whether, as that pulses at 15.6V, it might give the controller a false reading so it's not charging as much as it should be.

 

(I've put a relay in to switch the desulfator out, but the relay's stuck and I've not got round to replacing it yet).

[chris w]

"(unless you're a liveaboard)".

 

exactly...

 

And we only put the alternator controller on a couple of months ago in the hope we'd squeeze another year out of 'em but I thnk it was too late, as after an initial improvement the performance is sliding off the scale again.

 

As an aside, I put one of those de-sulfation units on at the same time, and I wonder whether, as that pulses at 15.6V, it might give the controller a false reading so it's not charging as much as it should be.

 

(I've put a relay in to switch the desulfator out, but the relay's stuck and I've not got round to replacing it yet).

 

You're not meant to have them both on at the same time. The controller won't know the difference between the pulser and the battery and so will switch out of the bulk and absorption stages far too soon. Therein may lie your problem.

 

If you have an external controller and/or a multistage mains charger, you shouldn't need a de-sulphator anyway.

 

Chris

[Smelly]

Well the batteries were nearly 2 years old anyway and had the usual engine charging issues so I though an extra 30 quid wouldn't hurt.

 

I have been thinking about re-visting that relay so I'l be off up to Maplins soon...

 

Still, even with the bulk charge rate limited, the float voltage is now 14.00, as opposed to the old 13.85, both tested, so they should be doing better, however they seem to be ailing.

 

edityed for speling

Edited February 8, 2008 by Smelly

[onthecut]

No-one ever said boating was a cheap hobby!

Mind you, staying at home isn't cheap either. I just had my heating oil tanks filled this morning and it cost over £2000! When I moved in here 8 years ago the bill was around £800. And it only lasts 3 months!

 

Chris

 

Never wondered what that pipe is that runs through the fence to your neighbour's garage ?

 

Mike.

[Chris Pink]

Have I drunk too much coffee or am I justly peeved at people telling me what I already know but didn't ask in the first place?!

 

Yes, probably and no, not really, if you raise your eyes a couple of inches you'll see the word 'discussion'. That's what this is, a forum.

 

And it occurs to me from reading your posts that using an inverter to run power tools is not particularly sensible, cut down on that by buying a cheap generator. The way to efficient (read cost effective) boat power generation is to use the right method for each application.

 

But you already knew that and didn't ask it anyway.

[stuart]

Does anyone know any cheap battery suppliers in the West Mids?

 

This was a few weeks ago but "Adverc BM" in Wolverhampton still had them £57 plus vat AND free delivery.

 

See..

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11369

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=12286

[LiamC]

Mind you, staying at home isn't cheap either. I just had my heating oil tanks filled this morning and it cost over £2000! When I moved in here 8 years ago the bill was around £800. And it only lasts 3 months!

 

£2k every three months, thats £8k a year! Are you sure you have your sums right?

[steelaway]

If you're only going to charge them from the engine without an external alternator controller then you will be knackering them into an early grave. This is because you will only be charging them to about the 70% level and hence they will sulphate up.

 

If you use an external alternator cntroller and/or a multistage mains charger, you should get at least 4-5 years from them (unless you're a liveaboard).

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris

 

Thanks for taking the flak Chris.

I was only trying to give him best advice - obviously not welcomed.

 

Alex

[chris w]

Still, even with the bulk charge rate limited, the float voltage is now 14.00, as opposed to the old 13.85, both tested, so they should be doing better, however they seem to be ailing.edityed for speling

 

That's a bit weird because the float voltage will be determined by the alternator's internal regulator voltage (not the external controller) which won't vary - ever. It may be 13.85v or it maybe 14.00v, but it can't change.

 

Did you measure it using a different multimeter? A cheap multimeter reading 14.00v means the voltage could be anywhere between 13.7v and 14.3v (+/-2% accuracy).

 

BTW, the bulk (and absorption rates) will not be RATE limited because of the desulphator, they will be drastically TIME limited. That's why the batteries are not charging sufficiently IMHO.

 

Chris

 

£2k every three months, thats £8k a year! Are you sure you have your sums right?

 

Yes, I definitely have my sums right. I have a larger than average house!! A typical house will have a boiler rated probably around the 50,000BTU/hr mark (16KW). I have 2 oil-fired boilers: the smaller of which is 180,000BTU/hr (60KW) and the larger of which is 230,000BTU/hr (75KW). Add that lot up!!

 

With my electricity (which is not used for heating at all), power companies give a discount on greater than 3,000KWh usage per year. I use over 30,000KWh per year!!! They always think I'm a factory when I phone them!!! Do NOT buy an electric Aga!! That accounts for almost half of my total electricity consumption per year.

 

Chris

Edited February 8, 2008 by chris w

[stuart]

Chris W you have too much money and far too big a house

[bottle]

Convert the Aga to oil and/or build your own power station.

[smileypete]

Is it me or has the price of leisure batteries soared in the last couple of years?

 

I got some from MC 2 years ago exactly for about 40 quid a piece, they're 75 now!!! Limekiln are £62.

 

Anyone know any cheap suppliers in West Mids area?

 

To anticpate the likely debate, we live aboard, I service 'em every 2 months since we fitted the alernator controller (sterling) but the performance is still steadily dropping. Big inverter load, charging off the engine so rarely fully charged. methinks the word is f**ked.

 

Luv and hugs b

 

Dan

 

Hi,

 

For semi traction batteries ones with a low Ah and CCA versus weight should last longest.

 

For daily charging I'd try to give them an extra long charge once a week to help minimise sulphation.

 

How many batts do you have and what size? If you run them down 25% each day before charging then 2 years of that isn't tooo bad.

 

Edit: Also try to run heavy inverter loads while the engine is running, so some alternator output goes straight to the inverter.

 

Edit2: If there's a commercial breakers near they may have decent truck batteries for not much more than scrap value.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited February 8, 2008 by smileypete

[Callunna]

While you wrestle with the intricacies of battery charging, inverters, alternator controllers, generators and energy management systems (which is what we're doing after a month as liveaboards) you could in the meantime try a very quick and relatively cheap way to reduce the demands on your batteries, depending on the kind of lighting system on your boat.

 

We've replaced each of our 18 halogen spotlight bulbs (MR16) with a 30-LED bulb. I shopped around and got them for £4 each.

 

18 x 20 watts versus 18 x 1.5 watts. The results have been dramatic.

 

On top of that, we now switch off the inverter at night because we only have 12v lights and fridge on.

 

It hasn't solved all our problems and I'm being given a lot of help and advice by members of another forum (no offence to CWF, it's just that you can't be in several places at once, can you?)

 

 

Cally

[bouy]

Current battery scrap price is now £250 per tonne so thats why the costs of new units is rising ! my 4 batteries are now 4 yrs old and as i have had them on hook up all their lives i hope i can get by for a little longer but its only a matter of time before i will have to face reality and look for some new ones .

[Smelly]

Sorry Alex, I had drunk too mcuh coffee but I have heard it all before as well. i should have implied the "early grave" comment from Chris then maybe we wouldn't be falling out, however I would argue that "best" is a very subjective test... I'm serious about that £400 if yo're up for it

 

Regarding running power tools, my invertor is bigger and more reliable than my cheap chinese genny. I'm stuck with the kit I've got for the time being and am prioritising fitting the boat out within the constraints of what I've got and whenever i'm loading the inverter the engine's running, as it is now while the PC's on (yes yes...)

 

Chris, sorry about the language, we were meaning the same thing regarding rates/times however my sterling alternator controller instructions do infer that the float voltage should be higher than using the native regulator...

 

finally, I got a couple of truck batteries when I was living on my last boat, they were simply for maintaining the pumps on the 1936 wooden, hence slightly leaky boat. One of them failed quite suddenly one night and I was lucky not to get my feet wet so please excuse my superstition.

 

Finally, cheers twice Stuart, there may well be a pint on me if you're around in a couple of weekds. I'll ring adverc on Monday, but more so thanx for the link, i'll rest my case ther and apologise for re-iterating what's already been siad.

 

Different note, the police are bringing in thier launch ofr the labour conference today... We're taking bets as to whether it

ll fit through tindall bridge... it's curtain twitching time!

[chris w]

Chris, sorry about the language, we were meaning the same thing regarding rates/times however my sterling alternator controller instructions do infer that the float voltage should be higher than using the native regulator...

 

The Sterling's float voltage will be around 13.6v. Your system will float at the higher of that number and your internal regulator voltage. Your internal regulator will be around 14v so you are not seeing the Sterling controller float voltage at all. (BTW, you mean "imply" not "infer" - THEY imply and YOU infer )

 

Chris

[steelaway]

Sorry Alex, I had drunk too mcuh coffee but I have heard it all before as well. i should have implied the "early grave" comment from Chris then maybe we wouldn't be falling out, however I would argue that "best" is a very subjective test... I'm serious about that £400 if yo're up for it

 

Hi There

 

Cheque's 'in the post'

 

It seems the forum members have been helpful to you and I hope you get sorted.

Its always difficult to tell what amount of knowledge any member has, you always hope to give best advise, not to upset any one.

 

Alex