Need a bowthruster?

[Barno Kaison-Flower]

Basically if you think you need a bow thruster, you are doing something wrong.

 

All types of bow thruster are a pain to install, service, use continuously and relie on to work first time.

[bottle]

Can someone explain the pros and cons of electric versus hydraulic bowthrusters - I guess electric are cheaper, but require batteries, charging arrangements and only last a few minutes every hour or two, and hydraulic are more expensive but can run "all day"

 

"In practice", what's the bottom line and guide prices for a suitable one for a "62-er" generally only used on canals ?

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

 

Hi Nick

 

You have answered your own question.

 

"In practice" it is a modern (cough, spit) thing, the old boaters never had them (of course they would have if they had been around) and they moved fully laden boats around the system, no problem.

 

My new build will not be having one (60ft) as my builder says, why pay out over £3,000 for something that you may never use.

 

I know some people 'love' them and I suspect they may be handy (pulling away from the mooring to save you pushing off with a big stick )but with care and practice, personally, I can not see the need.

 

edit: spelling

Edited February 17, 2008 by bottle

[blackrose]

Basically if you think you need a bow thruster, you are doing something wrong.

 

All types of bow thruster are a pain to install, service, use continuously and relie on to work first time.

 

So does your first statement apply to all sizes and shapes of boat? In which case why do many tugs, ferries, and other boats have bow thrusters?

 

I think you have to make the distinction between needing a BT, and having one. For example, power steering isn't needed in a car but most people seem to prefer it. I have a BT but I don't need it. I'm perfectly capable of handling my boat without a BT but it just makes life easier sometimes because my boat is big and I'm single-handed.

 

I completely disagree with your second point: Yes, I'm sure BTs are a pain to install but most users don't install them, they leave that to the builder. Diesel engines are also a pain to install but does that mean we should dispense with these items too? There's hardly any servicing on my electric BT. BTs aren't supposed to be used continuously - they're not designed to work in that way - you use them in short blips, (although hydraulic thrusters can be used for longer periods). Lastly, no piece of equipment can be completely relied upon but that's not necessarily an argument for not having it.

 

I'm sure in the days of old when horses pulled canal boats there were old working boaters who said that the new fangled diesel boat engines were unnecessary if you had a good horse and the right skills... Then again, perhaps they weren't such luddites in those days and embraced the new technology?

Edited February 17, 2008 by blackrose

[Barno Kaison-Flower]

Blackrose, was that a sore point? Big boats use bow thrusters because you cant push them and tugs are expensive. Small boats dont need them but I'm happy that your happy with yours.

[blackrose]

Blackrose, was that a sore point? Big boats use bow thrusters because you cant push them and tugs are expensive. Small boats dont need them but I'm happy that your happy with yours.

 

No it was simply an opinion.

 

Big boats didn't always have thrusters so other skills were used instead, but I'm sure the captains of these vessels are now just as happy using their thrusters - if not, at least they now have the choice.

 

I agree small boats don't need them but size is relative. My boat is big compared to most narrowboats and it's the most expensive thing I have ever owned so I guess I'm ok.

 

However, I am often perplexed at the vehemence of opinion expressed against BTs on the inland waterways, which often borders on hatred (I'm not citing your posts as an example of this Barno). You rarely see the same sort of spleen venting in coastal marinas despite the vast majority of sailing boats into which they are installed being smaller, lighter and far more manouverable than our steel skips. I just have to conclude that this says something about the mindset of some boaters on our canals and rivers.

Edited February 17, 2008 by blackrose

[Nickhlx]

The reason I am asking about, and considering incorporating one, mainly because it is a 62 footer, new-build ( so easier to add to spec when being built) and it will probably be living its first few years at least in a marina and as I only have about 100 hrs, no river experience yet, have a concern about hitting another boat in a tight, possibly windy day, situation. I forgot to add that I will be single-handed much of the time (wife disabled).

 

The last trip over the New Year, along the K and A brought us through Newbury, and after ( going West to East) the lock in the centre of the town, the river joins the canal - there is a very fast (well, 3 mph or more, which is fast for me at the moment) current for a while, and I was glad there was no-one else about as I needed a mph or two over that to re-gain steering. A few days later there had been a lot of heavy rain and they warn you about fast currents at those times.... so the added bit of steering capability would be good for peace of mind until I have a few hundred more hours under the belt !

 

Thanks for the replies....

 

Nick

[steelaway]

The reason I am asking about, and considering incorporating one, mainly because it is a 62 footer, new-build ( so easier to add to spec when being built) and it will probably be living its first few years at least in a marina and as I only have about 100 hrs, no river experience yet, have a concern about hitting another boat in a tight, possibly windy day, situation. I forgot to add that I will be single-handed much of the time (wife disabled).

 

The last trip over the New Year, along the K and A brought us through Newbury, and after ( going West to East) the lock in the centre of the town, the river joins the canal - there is a very fast (well, 3 mph or more, which is fast for me at the moment) current for a while, and I was glad there was no-one else about as I needed a mph or two over that to re-gain steering. A few days later there had been a lot of heavy rain and they warn you about fast currents at those times.... so the added bit of steering capability would be good for peace of mind until I have a few hundred more hours under the belt !

 

Thanks for the replies....

 

Nick

 

Hi There

 

I dont have one and have only regreted it a couple of times.

But - I have been seen pushing out the front, running to the back only to find the wind has blown me back in - repeat 5 or 6 times!

In your situation as you will be working single handed, I would definetly fit one at the build and it will add to the resale value of your boat.

 

Alex

[magnetman]

The reason I am personally against bowthrusters on canal boats is that they make what would normally be a challenging and interesting boat handling situation into a rather boring and unstimulating boat handling situation by making it too easy and I personally believe this undermines the acquisition of true boat handling skills.

[blackrose]

The reason I am personally against bowthrusters on canal boats is that they make what would normally be a challenging and interesting boat handling situation into a rather boring and unstimulating boat handling situation by making it too easy and I personally believe this undermines the acquisition of true boat handling skills.

 

Sorry I still don't get it? One could have said exactly the same thing about using an engine instead of a horse - yet most of use have engines on our boats these days, so in that sense very few of us use true boat handling skills. Also since you don't have a bow thruster, then surely you will still have a challenging and interesting experience and it won't undermine your aquisition of boat handling skills? I can fully appreciate why someone would be against having a bow thruster on their own boat, but I really can't understand those who voice opposition to the equipment I have on my boat?

 

In my experience, moving a 30 tonne barge single-handed is challenging and interesting with or without a thruster.

 

Anyway, to me the argument is clear cut: If you want one and can afford one, then get one. If you don't or can't then don't - it's as simple as that!

Edited February 18, 2008 by blackrose

[Semitrad]

The reason I am asking about, and considering incorporating one, mainly because it is a 62 footer, new-build ( so easier to add to spec when being built) and it will probably be living its first few years at least in a marina and as I only have about 100 hrs, no river experience yet, have a concern about hitting another boat in a tight, possibly windy day, situation. I forgot to add that I will be single-handed much of the time (wife disabled).

 

The last trip over the New Year, along the K and A brought us through Newbury, and after ( going West to East) the lock in the centre of the town, the river joins the canal - there is a very fast (well, 3 mph or more, which is fast for me at the moment) current for a while, and I was glad there was no-one else about as I needed a mph or two over that to re-gain steering. A few days later there had been a lot of heavy rain and they warn you about fast currents at those times.... so the added bit of steering capability would be good for peace of mind until I have a few hundred more hours under the belt !

 

Thanks for the replies....

 

Nick

 

 

It has been my experience with bowthrusters that they have no appreciable effect unless the boat is stationary.

[tomsk]

BTs are essentially effeminate, in the 'romance' lanuages they always take the 'lesser' gender. It therefore follows that the users and specifiers thereof are less competant boat handlers and I dismiss both them and their nancy-boys skills out of hand. They clearly know nothing about boats.

[blackrose]

It has been my experience with bowthrusters that they have no appreciable effect unless the boat is stationary.

 

Certainly the effect is increased the more slowly the boat is moving, but I can't help thinking there was something wrong with the thruster(s) you've used if you had to be stationary to see them work?

Edited February 18, 2008 by blackrose

[magnetman]

I disagree about the horse/engine analogy because it is basically essential to have a boat mounted propulsion system in the modern age but it isn't essential (not for me anyway) to have a bowprop and i feel that someone learning to handle a canal boat would be better served without one at least to start with so they can learn the basics for when they get a coalbag in the tube.

[magnetman]

I disagree about the horse/engine analogy because it is basically essential to have a boat mounted propulsion system in the modern age but it isn't essential (not for me anyway) to have a bowprop and i feel that someone learning to handle a canal boat would be better served without one at least to start with so they can learn the basics for when they get a coalbag in the tube.

[Semitrad]

Certainly the effect is increased the more slowly the boat is moving, but I can't help thinking there was something wrong with the thruster(s) you've used if you had to be stationary to see them work?

 

Both the boats I have experience of have hydraulic B/Ts, the newest has a thruster with a "quieter" impeller. To get the best from them the engine speed has to be increased considerably. Of course this is best done in neutral! Electrically driven thrusters may be different, I have no experience of them.

[blackrose]

Both the boats I have experience of have hydraulic B/Ts, the newest has a thruster with a "quieter" impeller. To get the best from them the engine speed has to be increased considerably. Of course this is best done in neutral! Electrically driven thrusters may be different, I have no experience of them.

 

Yes, I've seen this phenomenon with hydraulic thrusters too. I'm not sure if all hydraulic BTs are based on similar designs, but having to take the engine out of gear so that you can rev the engine in order to get the thruster to work doesn't seem all that user friendly to me. Electric thrusters are usually independent systems (apart from using the engine/alternator to charge of course).

[Yoda]

Yes, I've seen this phenomenon with hydraulic thrusters too. I'm not sure if all hydraulic BTs are based on similar designs, but having to take the engine out of gear so that you can rev the engine in order to get the thruster to work doesn't seem all that user friendly to me. Electric thrusters are usually independent systems (apart from using the engine/alternator to charge of course).

 

It would not be difficult to fit a pressurised container for the oil so that there is a reserve for the BT. One important thing to remember is that its start up must be slow otherwise the blades will cause cavitation.

[Ray]

The reason I am personally against bowthrusters on canal boats is that they make what would normally be a challenging and interesting boat handling situation into a rather boring and unstimulating boat handling situation by making it too easy and I personally believe this undermines the acquisition of true boat handling skills.

 

Does the same apply to poles?

 

I'm fitting a bowthruster because its easier to do so now as I fit out the boat, rather than later. I was only going to run the wires at this stage but then decided that I didn't know for certain how many wires would be needed so I opted to fit the BT. It'll be an added selling point and will be there in reserve if I want to use it or if a less skilled steerer gets into trouble - not that I'm saying that I'm that skilled!

[tomsk]

Does the same apply to poles?

 

I'm fitting a bowthruster because its easier to do so now as I fit out the boat, rather than later. I was only going to run the wires at this stage but then decided that I didn't know for certain how many wires would be needed so I opted to fit the BT. It'll be an added selling point and will be there in reserve if I want to use it or if a less skilled steerer gets into trouble - not that I'm saying that I'm that skilled!

 

Poles are best employed labouring on building sites, their labour comes cheap and they dont mither over a little hard collar.