What a load of bollards!

[magnetman]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

You mean, implying CART haven't thought that such a bollard would be more difficult to anchor when this is specifically pointed out in the article? Or that it'll be pulled out when strapping a boat to a stop at a lock/bridge when the article specifically said they were intended for use at accessible moorings?

 

Similarly I somehow doubt they'd have put the cross-pieces there without a good reason, I'd have thought this would be to keep the rope at the top and stop it slipping down out of reach if it can't be tied firmly round the bollard -- which is presumably possible if a boater has either mobility or hand problems to tie/pull tight knots, for example arthritis. But then I didn't design it, so that's just *my* assumption... 😉

 

There seems to be an assumption by some CWDF posters that anyone proposing anything new or different from "the good old way of doing things" -- especially CART -- is an idiot who hasn't thought for a moment about the potential disadvantages of what they're proposing, and they then gleefully point out the blindingly obvious -- in this case, so obvious that it was even in the article, had they bothered to read it.

 

If that's not CART-bashing, it looks remarkably like it... 😉

 

I wasn't CRT bashing I was just pointing out that the format of the bollard is not appropriate. I don't care who designed it. 

 

I suspect the real reason for the design is that it fits in with the theme park idea. It really looks like the sort of mooring bollard one would see on a bath toy. 

 

I believe this is all part of the dumbing down.

Why have ball ends on the bitts?

 

This isn't someone thinking of a new way to make a mooring bollard or post. There is far more to this design than tying up Boats

 

 

 

 

 

It is a caricature. 

Edited January 29 by magnetman
typos

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

29 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I hadn't noticed anybody bashing CRT.  

there was a bit of a piss take towards CRT from me and midnight but hardly a bashing

 

2 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

I do wonder why boaters bother with knots on bollards instead of a lighterman's hitch, you don't even need to bend down, better still we had a dedicated rope with a simple loop on the end, life's complicated enough without wasting time and energy trying to undo tightened knots. 

 

 I don’t understand the needs of disabled boaters, so I really can’t comment on what style of bollard is best suited for ‘em. 
But I am supportive of making things more available. 

 But I didn’t realise anyone actually tied to a bollard?

I always tie back on the boat. 
Back to the T stud or dolly after a turn around the bollard. 
And like you I have loops at the end of me ropes. 
 

So standard bollards ought to be easy enough for any one to use, I rarely bend to use them. 
Rings on the other hand do require a bit of bending over. 

 

[magnetman]

Did they think of partially sighted people? The end bits are painted blue so in low light they will not be visible. One could get a nasty bruise hitting one of those with a shin. Ouch. 

Edited January 29 by magnetman

[IanD]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

I wasn't CRT bashing I was just pointing out that the format of the bollard is not appropriate. I don't care who designed it. 

 

I suspect the real reason for the design is that it fits in with the theme park idea. It really looks like the sort of mooring bollard one would see on a bath toy. 

 

I believe this is all part of the dumbing down.

Why have ball ends on the bitts?

 

This isn't someone thinking of a new way to make a mooring bollard or post. There is far more to this design than tying up Boats

 

It is a caricature. 

 

So, you didn't read the article then... 😉

 

What makes you think that based on a couple of minutes thinking about it you know better than the guy who designed it, whose job it is and presumably spent considerable time thinking about what it needed to do and why? Maybe there are good reasons for the various features of the design? Or maybe he's an idiotic numpty who knows nothing and you're right and it's all a load of crap.

 

Still, it's always easy to pour scorn on other people (and CART...) based on little or no evidence, isn't it? 😉

[magnetman]

Just now, IanD said:

 

So, you didn't read the article then... 😉

 

What makes you think that based on a couple of minutes thinking about it you know better than the guy who designed it, whose job it is and presumably spent considerable time thinking about what it needed to do and why? Maybe there are good reasons for the various features of the design? Or maybe he's an idiotic numpty who knows nothing and you're right and it's all a load of crap.

 

Still, it's always easy to pour scorn on other people (and CART...) based on little or no evidence, isn't it? 😉

 

 

I think a postcard image / caricature might be a more important factor than practicality in this situation. 

 

Things are changing on canals. More public is being encouraged. Theme parks are go. 

[IanD]

Just now, magnetman said:

 

I think a postcard image / caricature might be a more important factor than practicality in this situation. 

 

Things are changing on canals. More public is being encouraged. Theme parks are go. 

 

Nice try at diversion... 😉

[magnetman]

Do we know what it is made of ? 

 

In the picture it looks rather light. Is this a plastic mock up?

 

Presumably its going to be cast iron. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Nice try at diversion... 😉

What? 

 

it is a caricature of an actual mooring bollard. Like you see in picture books. 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

there was a bit of a piss take towards CRT from me and midnight but hardly a bashing

 

 I don’t understand the needs of disabled boaters, so I really can’t comment on what style of bollard is best suited for ‘em. 
But I am supportive of making things more available. 

 But I didn’t realise anyone actually tied to a bollard?

I always tie back on the boat. 
Back to the T stud or dolly after a turn around the bollard. 
And like you I have loops at the end of me ropes. 
 

So standard bollards ought to be easy enough for any one to use, I rarely bend to use them. 
Rings on the other hand do require a bit of bending over. 

 

 

Don't you think that leaning back over the boat to tie back onto it -- especially a T-stud or dolly not right on the gunwale next to the bank -- might not be so easy for a disabled boater?

 

I think it's fair to assume that if standard bollards were so easy to use for them, there would be no need for a new design like this -- which must have been developed by looking at what problems they have, otherwise none of this would have happened. It's easy to say "I don't see why this is needed" if you don't know what need it's trying to meet... 😉

[Jon57]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

So, you didn't read the article then... 😉

 

What makes you think that based on a couple of minutes thinking about it you know better than the guy who designed it, whose job it is and presumably spent considerable time thinking about what it needed to do and why? Maybe there are good reasons for the various features of the design? Or maybe he's an idiotic numpty who knows nothing and you're right and it's all a load of crap.

 

Still, it's always easy to pour scorn on other people (and CART...) based on little or no evidence, isn't it? 😉

Not a CRT bridge, but Moss lane swing bridge was designed by a so called engineer (never designed a swing bridge before) he needs to go back to college for a refresher course before he does more damage. 

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

Don't you think that leaning back over the boat to tie back onto it -- especially a T-stud or dolly not right on the gunwale next to the bank -- might not be so easy for a disabled boater?

 

I think it's fair to assume that if standard bollards were so easy to use for them, there would be no need for a new design like this -- which must have been developed by looking at what problems they have, otherwise none of this would have happened. It's easy to say "I don't see why this is needed" if you don't know what need it's trying to meet... 😉

 

Are these meant to replace existing bollards/posts or is it for a newly constructed site? 

i don't read these articles. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Do we know what it is made of ? 

 

In the picture it looks rather light. Is this a plastic mock up?

 

Presumably its going to be cast iron. 

yes it’s a plastic model made from odds and ends

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Not a CRT bridge, but Moss lane swing bridge was designed by a so called engineer (never designed a swing bridge before) he needs to go back to college for a refresher course before he does more damage. 

 

Sure, that automatically means everyone who works for CART is an idiot, does it?

 

You could say exactly the same about boatbuilders, or indeed boaters -- there's always someone who makes a mistake, but that doesn't mean everyone else should be tarred with the same brush.

 

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Are these meant to replace existing bollards/posts or is it for a newly constructed site? 

i don't read these articles. 

 

That explains why your comments don't make any sense then... 😉

 

Note wht David Mack said:

 

"Also interesting to note that this is not something developed by CRT, it has come out of discussions by disabled boaters."

 

Maybe -- just possibly -- disabled boaters know more about what is needed for them than you do? 🙂

Edited January 29 by IanD

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Sure, that automatically means everyone who works for CART is an idiot, does it?

 

You could say exactly the same about boatbuilders, or indeed boaters -- there's always someone who makes a mistake, but that doesn't mean everyone else should be tarred with the same brush.

 

 

That explains why your comments don't make any sense then... 😉

 

You are very extreme sometimes. 

 

Its interesting how the bollard looks to have taken more cues from road furniture than towpath furniture. 

 

It almost wants to have chains clipped onto the blue bits. 

 

Just because you don't understand my comments does not mean they make no sense. You have a prearranged assumption which is not flexible. 

[IanD]

Just now, magnetman said:

 

You are very extreme sometimes. 

 

Its interesting how the bollard looks to have taken more cues from road furniture than towpath furniture. 

 

It almost wants to have chains clipped onto the blue bits. 

 

At least I actually read stuff before spouting off about it...

 

"Also interesting to note that this is not something developed by CRT, it has come out of discussions by disabled boaters."

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

20 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Did they think of partially sighted people? The end bits are painted blue so in low light they will not be visible. One could get a nasty bruise hitting one of those with a shin. Ouch. 

 the partially sighted are already bashing their noses and heads walking into CRT blue signs. 

 

Edited January 29 by beerbeerbeerbeerbeer
ate to are,

[magnetman]

 

 

Why paint the ends blue? Is the principle of painting extremities in white something which a luddite who can't deal with change would advocate or is it sensible so that people can see it in low light conditions? 

 

Just paint the thing black with white tips then it can be seen and recognised. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 the partially sighted ate already bashing their noses and heads walking into CRT blue signs. 
 

 

But probably not as often as they walk into lock gate beams, or railings, or any of the other "traditional" canal hazards... 😉

[Jon57]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Sure, that automatically means everyone who works for CART is an idiot, does it?

 

You could say exactly the same about boatbuilders, or indeed boaters -- there's always someone who makes a mistake, but that doesn't mean everyone else should be tarred with the same brush.

Well I will wait for your expert opinion if and when you try to use it on how to make a simple engineering job like trying to solve the rubics qube blind folded with boxing gloves on with a disability. 

Edited January 29 by Jon57
Addition

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, magnetman said:

 

 

Why paint the ends blue? Is the principle of painting extremities in white something which a luddite who can't deal with change would advocate or is it sensible so that people can see it in low light conditions? 

 

Just paint the thing black with white tips then it can be seen and recognised. 

the CRT article suggests they’ll be yellow and blue because those colours stand out more. 
 

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Why paint the ends blue? Is the principle of painting extremities in white something which a luddite who can't deal with change would advocate or is it sensible so that people can see it in low light conditions? 

 

Just paint the thing black with white tips then it can be seen and recognised. 

 

But a big tall black bollard with small white tips is *far* less visible to the partially sighted than a big tall white (yellow?) bollard with coloured (blue?) tips...

 

12 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Well I will wait for your expert opinion if and when you try to use it on how to make a simple engineering job like trying to solve the rubics qube blind folded with boxing gloves on with a disability. 

You're the one who suggested that a bridge design cockup had any relevancy to the subject under discussion, so over to you to show any link between the two... 😉

 

If you think engineering is always simple and obvious, you can't have done much of it -- mistakes do get made, the skill is learning from them not repeating them 🙂

Edited January 29 by IanD

[Jon57]

16 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

What makes you think that based on a couple of minutes thinking about it you know better than the guy who designed it, whose job it is and presumably spent considerable time thinking about what it needed to do and why? Maybe there are good reasons for the various features of the design?

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I’m really not against improving things for the disabled but if anyone struggles to tie back to the boat then the boat’s Tstuds/shackles/whatever  need adapting? 
 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’m really not against improving things for the disabled but if anyone struggles to tie back to the boat then the boat’s Tstuds/shackles/whatever  need adapting? 
 

 

 

From some of the knitting I have observed very few boaters tie back to the boat with an eye over the bollard

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’m really not against improving things for the disabled but if anyone struggles to tie back to the boat then the boat’s Tstuds/shackles/whatever  need adapting? 
 

 

Yes that sounds good in theory -- but if somebody has difficulty bending down to a low bollard, isn't it also possible that they might have trouble bending down to a T-stud/dolly/shackle, especially if the boat gunwale is low down due to a highish bank?

 

"Also interesting to note that this is not something developed by CRT, it has come out of discussions by disabled boaters."

Edited January 29 by IanD

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]