Radiator replacement pricing

[blackrose]

If there are any blockages in the radiators from sludge it often manifests itself as the rads getting hot at the top but not at the bottom depending on how they're plumbed. If the main run needs flushing through I'd drain the system and disconnect the flow & return pipes in the engine room assuming that's where the diesel heater is. Put a bucket under one pipe and a hose into the other. At least any mess will be contained in the engine space. 

 

It's nothing to do with your problem but the other thing to do is take any thermostatic radiator valves off your rads. They just unscrew. You don't want valves automatically shutting down your rads in conjunction with a diesel heater because then the hot water goes back to the heater and it doesn't run hard and will coke itself up.

Edited September 12, 2023 by blackrose

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, RickS said:

Just trying to get my head around how this all works, is it reasonable to say that if the first radiator in the chain does not get warm at all, then any block will be between that radiator and the diesel heater?

Very likely. But the blockage coukd be on the flow pipe or the return.

Have you checked that all the radiator valves are fully open - both the manual valves at one end and the lockshield valves at the other? You will probably have to remove the cover to check/open the latter. And if you have any thermostatic valves unscrew the heads as Blackrose suggests.

 

 

5 hours ago, RickS said:

There isn't a separate valve on the pipe leading to the radiators. The radiators are pretty old - about 25 years plus - so prepared to accept that there may well be a lot of gunge in the system. I accept that even if the gunge came from the rads, changing them won't be enough on its own, so the pipes will need flushing, which I suppose would happen when new rads are fitted.

You could still drain the system down, remove the existing radiators, leaving the valves attached to the pipework, and carry them out of the boat to the bank, where you can flush them out with a hose pipe until the flush water is completely clear.  If you now close the radiator valves except for the ones furthest from the heater, and disconnect the pipes from the heater itself, then you can with care , and ideally an assistant, use your hose to flush the pipes from the furthest radiator to the heater - some water spillage is almost inevitable, so be prepared with old towels etc. Then reassemble, refill and bleed and you should have circulation.

If you want to change the radiators for cosmetic reasons you can do so, but it would still make sense to get the existing system working first otherwise you might end up with new radiators and a non working system, and no more idea of what the cause is.

Edited September 12, 2023 by David Mack

[cuthound]

18 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Common for a gate valve to break the thread inside when closed hard leaving the gate in the closed position. The wheel will turn from stop to stop but not lift the gate out inside. If it feels quite free this could well be the problem. I suggest you drain down and take that valve out for look. If you have to replace it, use a quarter turn ball valve, much more reliable.

 

Indeed, when I first started work as a maintenance technician, I was advised never to leave gate vales fully open or fully closed, but to back them off half a turn to prevent the valve from sticking and breaking when you try to move it.

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Indeed, when I first started work as a maintenance technician, I was advised never to leave gate vales fully open or fully closed, but to back them off half a turn to prevent the valve from sticking and breaking when you try to move it.

Yep, me too. 

[RickS]

I have just bled the radiators again - although they didn't need it as water seeped out immediately. Also checked the air bleed valve (?) in the engine bay. All good.

I have noticed that although there are two feeds from the header tank, only one is plumbed in, the other one is blanked off. Reading on the internet (possibly dangerous, a little knowledge etc) seems to suggest that both pipes should be connected to the system to avoid air blocks. As I said, I have checked for air in the rads and there isn't any so not sure if any of this is relevant. does this make a difference to how you see the problem.

 

Thanks all for helpful advice

Edited September 13, 2023 by RickS
spelling error

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, RickS said:

I have just bled the radiators again - although they didn't need it as water seeped out immediately. Also checked the air bleed valve (?) in the engine bay. All good.

I have noticed that although there are two feeds from the header tank, only one is plumbed in, the other one is blanked off. Reading on the internet (possibly dangerous, a little kniwledfe etc) seems to suggest that both pipes should be connected to the system to avoid air blocks. As I said, I have checked for air in the rads and there isn't any so not sure if any of this is relevant. does this make a difference to how you see the problem.

 

Thanks all for helpful advice

Depends where the pipes are connected to the circuit. You only need one if its done correctly. Domestic heating will have 2, one to the bottom of the tank as expansion and fill and the other over the tank above the water level as vent. But this is unnecessary  on a small system like a boat with a pumped diesel fired heater as it can cause pumping over and rust the rads away in short order.

[RickS]

Thanks to everyone who responded with help and advice. I put a hose on the flow pipe and put an extra bit of hose on the return and put it over the side. After a few hiccups, and a lot of crap in the flow, it seemed to come through nicely and I was able to get the radiators working as they should (one at first then the other three). I think getting one clear meant the hot water was able to loosen the gunk that was in the system.

 

So whomever (and i think it was more than one of you) suggested that just replacing the radiators wouldn't necessarily solve the problem was spot on. To be fair that wasn't the idea initially, it was to get the boatyard to replace the rads and in doing so would have to get the system working. Glad i took your advice and didn't do that.

 

Plan is now to flush it through again in the next few days now that everything seems loose. I can replace radiators then at my own pace and do it myself.

Thanks again.

[Tracy D'arth]

We will send you email addresses for the thanks contributions, suggest £50 apiece?  Look at what we saved you!

[RickS]

If you are ever in my neck of the woods (Norton Junction-ish), then the drinks are definitely on me!

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, RickS said:

Thanks to everyone who responded with help and advice. I put a hose on the flow pipe and put an extra bit of hose on the return and put it over the side. After a few hiccups, and a lot of crap in the flow, it seemed to come through nicely and I was able to get the radiators working as they should (one at first then the other three). I think getting one clear meant the hot water was able to loosen the gunk that was in the system.

 

So whomever (and i think it was more than one of you) suggested that just replacing the radiators wouldn't necessarily solve the problem was spot on. To be fair that wasn't the idea initially, it was to get the boatyard to replace the rads and in doing so would have to get the system working. Glad i took your advice and didn't do that.

 

Plan is now to flush it through again in the next few days now that everything seems loose. I can replace radiators then at my own pace and do it myself.

Thanks again.

I have standard white radiators, looked very old but a coat of graphite spray radiator paint made them look modern 

[Tracy D'arth]

23 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I have standard white radiators, looked very old but a coat of graphite spray radiator paint made them look modern 

And would increase the heat transfer and efficiency.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

And would increase the heat transfer and efficiency.

Seems to good to be true.

I need to sand one of the radiators by 24.5 microns as it was not done very well, that should equalise the thermal gradient, lol.

[cuthound]

20 hours ago, RickS said:

Thanks to everyone who responded with help and advice. I put a hose on the flow pipe and put an extra bit of hose on the return and put it over the side. After a few hiccups, and a lot of crap in the flow, it seemed to come through nicely and I was able to get the radiators working as they should (one at first then the other three). I think getting one clear meant the hot water was able to loosen the gunk that was in the system.

 

So whomever (and i think it was more than one of you) suggested that just replacing the radiators wouldn't necessarily solve the problem was spot on. To be fair that wasn't the idea initially, it was to get the boatyard to replace the rads and in doing so would have to get the system working. Glad i took your advice and didn't do that.

 

Plan is now to flush it through again in the next few days now that everything seems loose. I can replace radiators then at my own pace and do it myself.

Thanks again.

 

Before flushing it through again, I would use a central heating cleaner such as Sentinel X400 or X800 in the system for a few hours.

 

https://www.sentinelprotects.com/uk/products/x400-system-restorer

 

It will dissolve any limescale, magnetite or sludge, putting it into.suspension so that it can be flushed out completely.

 

Then refill with a pre-mixed 25% solution of antifreeze and deionised water.

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

14 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Before flushing it through again, I would use a central heating cleaner such as Sentinel X400 or X800 in the system for a few hours.

 

https://www.sentinelprotects.com/uk/products/x400-system-restorer

 

It will dissolve any limescale, magnetite or sludge, putting it into.suspension so that it can be flushed out completely.

 

Then refill with a pre-mixed 25% solution of antifreeze and deionised water.

 

 

But don't come on here complaining that your 25 year old radiators have sprouted pin holes!

[LadyG]

Not sure I'd be putting antifreeze in the canal, collect it and put it in the hedge back might be better, but not where dogs can drink it of course.

[cuthound]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Not sure I'd be putting antifreeze in the canal, collect it and put it in the hedge back might be better, but not where dogs can drink it of course.

 

Who mentioned putting antifreeze in the canal?

 

I drained mine into 5 litre containers and took it down to the local tip 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

But don't come on here complaining that your 25 year old radiators have sprouted pin holes!

 

According to the manufacturer it won't do this. It certainly didn't on the 40 year old radiators in my house 

 

KEY FEATURES

• Restores systems suffering with circulation problems
• Eliminates radiator cold spots
• Prepares older systems for the installation of new components
• Has a non-acid formula which does not cause pin-holing or leaks
• Can be used in all types of indirect heating systems, including those containing aluminium

Edited September 17, 2023 by cuthound
To insert spaces between merged posts

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

@RickS

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

@RickS

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

 

 

@RickS

Edited September 17, 2023 by LadyG
Quadruple delete fail

[Tracy D'arth]

8 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Who mentioned putting antifreeze in the canal?

 

I drained mine into 5 litre containers and took it down to the local tip 

 

 

 

 

According to the manufacturer it won't do this. It certainly didn't on the 40 year old radiators in my house 

 

KEY FEATURES

• Restores systems suffering with circulation problems
• Eliminates radiator cold spots
• Prepares older systems for the installation of new components
• Has a non-acid formula which does not cause pin-holing or leaks
• Can be used in all types of indirect heating systems, including those containing aluminium

There was of course a large pinch of humour in my post. I have used Fernox DS9 descaler for many years.

[RickS]

cuthound, Tracy, thanks for the suggestions, they sound exactly what is called for.

 

I assume I can introduce the liquid into the system via the header tank? Would it be alright to leave the in for a couple of weeks before flushing through?

 

I know, RTFM 🙂 but thought I'd ask the people who have used them.

 

thanks again

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, RickS said:

cuthound, Tracy, thanks for the suggestions, they sound exactly what is called for.

 

I assume I can introduce the liquid into the system via the header tank? Would it be alright to leave the in for a couple of weeks before flushing through?

 

I know, RTFM 🙂 but thought I'd ask the people who have used them.

 

thanks again

I would not and never have. Follow the instructions please.

[RickS]

I have read the data sheet for the Sentinel X400 and it says it can be introduced into the header tank (F&E cistern in their terminology), so I am slightly puzzled by the frst part of your reply Tracy. Am I missing something or do I have my humour bypass switched on? ☺️

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, RickS said:

I have read the data sheet for the Sentinel X400 and it says it can be introduced into the header tank (F&E cistern in their terminology), so I am slightly puzzled by the frst part of your reply Tracy. Am I missing something or do I have my humour bypass switched on? ☺️

You asked if you could leave it in for a couple of weeks, I say no.

[RickS]

Makes sense now Tracy, thanks. I wrongly assumed your reply was to my first question and not the second. Obvious when it's pointed out 🙂

 

Up very early - need nap!

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, RickS said:

Makes sense now Tracy, thanks. I wrongly assumed your reply was to my first question and not the second. Obvious when it's pointed out 🙂

 

Up very early - need nap!

Don't we all.  I was looking forward to a good nights sleep last night, took loads of pain killer but the gale woke me and the rain kept me awake. Only firing on 2 cylinders today. Sorry ,I should of quoted the relevant part.

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, RickS said:

cuthound, Tracy, thanks for the suggestions, they sound exactly what is called for.

 

I assume I can introduce the liquid into the system via the header tank? Would it be alright to leave the in for a couple of weeks before flushing through?

 

I know, RTFM 🙂 but thought I'd ask the people who have used them.

 

thanks again

 

I left mine in for 24 hours, but according to the X400 web site it can be left in for up to 4 weeks in heavily fouled systems.

 

https://www.aerco.com/products/hvac-hot-water-solutions/boilers/boiler-accessories/sentinel-hydronic-systems/x400-system-restorer#:~:text=Sentinel X400 needs to be,weeks in heavily fouled systems.

 

Personally I would rather do two short treatments (if one proved not enough), rather than one long one.