Think I've finally found my 1st boat

[Kris9128]

Evening all. I've been looking for my 1st boat for about 9 months now. Having  visited a few marina's, viewing many boats of all different shapes and sizes,  I think I've finally found the 1 not too far from home. 

She's an old girl in need of a whole bunch of TLC, most of it cosmetic/internal.

She's a 57ft Les Allen, with a Lister HRW3 keel cooled engine.  

Went to view her this weekend,  everything works as it should, engine started on the button and sounded fine.

I have a survey booked in shortly.

 

My question is,  are there anythings i need to be aware of, paying particular attention to. 

Are Les Allen boats as good as people are saying they are ( I've searched the site for information). 

She has been laid up for a while and will be needing a good jet washing and proper blacking. Will be fitting new anodes at the same time. 

 

Any advice/comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks, kris

[mrsmelly]

Les Allen were top of the tree in their day, super boats, however they are all now old boats so of paramount importance is hull condition above and beyond anything else. Everything is secondary to steel hull condition.

[Kris9128]

Thanks for the super quick reply. I am trying to get the survey booked. Just a bit of a pain going between the marina, owner of the boat and surveyors,  lol

Are the lister hrw3 engines OK?

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, Kris9128 said:

My question is,  are there anythings i need to be aware of, paying particular attention to. 

Are Les Allen boats as good as people are saying they are ( I've searched the site for information). 

They are nice boats. We have one, but as Mr Smelly says, condition of the steel is the key. Our one is 40 years old and only has a 6mm base plate. I think some other Allen boats had 10mm. There is some information on the allenregister.

 

http://www.allensregister.com/

Edited August 13, 2023 by rusty69

[Kris9128]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

They are nice boats. We have one, but as Mr Smelly says, condition of the steel is the key. Our one is 40 years old and only has a 6mm base plate. I think some other Allen boats had 10mm. There is some information on the allenregister.

 

http://www.allensregister.com/

Thanks, I'll have a proper look at the register later, looks like some good information there. 

Did yours start with a 6mm base or is it down to 6mm now?

Do they handle/float OK. She's a 57ft and my first boat, lol.

 

 

Thanks, kris

[magnetman]

Allens of Oldbury made some seriously nice narrow boats. I'm a big fan.

 

As they will be getting old as previous posters have mentioned it will be all about the steelwork especially around the waterline. 

 

I'd also be having a good look inside to see whether the boat has dry or wet bilges. 

 

Some of them were made with thin base plates in 1/4 inch (6.35mm) steel which can potentially be an issue over time. 

 

 

[rusty69]

Just now, Kris9128 said:

Thanks, I'll have a proper look at the register later, looks like some good information there. 

Did yours start with a 6mm base or is it down to 6mm now?

Do they handle/float OK. She's a 57ft and my first boat, lol.

 

 

Thanks, kris

Ours has always been 6mm,though for some reason the first 8 foot is 10mm. We have owned it since 1999.

 

It handles OK, but I suspect not much different from any other narrowboat. Ours is 69ft.

 

A bit of pit welding this year and epoxy coating. 

 

It depends how well the one you are looking at has been maintained. 

[magnetman]

 

I owned a very early Allens boat for a few yars. It was a joy to handle as they knew how to make a proper narrow boat. No worries in that regard but ageing does things even to the best of us. 

 

It is possible they used 'good old British steel' or they may have been subject to the random influence of the Mafia with regards to steel quality. 

 

Worth checking if it was Mafia steel as this is known to be a bit iffy. 

 

 

[rusty69]

The other issue with our one is that it has a keelson, and nowhere for any water to run, from any plumbing leaks. No limber holes. So make sure the interior bilge has been kept dry. Ideally there should be inspection hatches. 

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 Ours is 69ft.

 

 

I'm sure this helps clear up confusion around your user name specifically regarding the fact it is not a sex reference..

 

 

Just now, rusty69 said:

The other issue with our one is that it has a keelson, and nowhere for any water to run, from any plumbing leaks. No limber holes. So make sure the interior bilge has been kept dry. Ideally there should be inspection hatches. 

 

Indeed. Bilge needs looking at on these ones. 

[Kris9128]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Allens of Oldbury made some seriously nice narrow boats. I'm a big fan.

 

As they will be getting old as previous posters have mentioned it will be all about the steelwork especially around the waterline. 

 

I'd also be having a good look inside to see whether the boat has dry or wet bilges. 

 

Some of them were made with thin base plates in 1/4 inch (6.35mm) steel which can potentially be an issue over time. 

 

 

The bilges are bone dry, we checked yesterday. There was a small access panel in the floor just inside near the access hatch into the engine room. 

Also bone dry around the prop shaft and engine,  so fingers crossed 

[rusty69]

The "narrowboat builders book" by Graham Booth details fitting out a Les  Allen boat... Rome, I think it was called. 

[blackrose]

23 minutes ago, Kris9128 said:

Just a bit of a pain going between the marina, owner of the boat and surveyors,

 

Make sure your surveyor isn't connected in any way with the marina if they're a broker. Also you're under no obligation to divulge the name of your surveyor to the owner beforehand and personally I wouldn't. Some may say I'm paranoid but I had a bad experience 25 years ago and I wouldn't even leave them together because you never know what might be agreed in your absence.

 

These people can spot a newbie coming and some take advantage.

Edited August 13, 2023 by blackrose

[Kris9128]

Just now, blackrose said:

 

Make sure your surveyor isn't connected in any way with the marina if they're a broker. Also you're under no obligation to divulge the name of your surveyor to the owner beforehand and personally I wouldn't. Some may say I'm paranoid but I had a bad experience 25 years ago and I wouldn't even leave them together because you never know what might be agreed in your absence.

Hadn't thought about it like that, but thanks. Surveyor is not connected with the marina and its through a private sale. Will just be using marina to slip the boat. Its just a pain as the marina are saying that the owner needs to book the slip as it is their boat, but I'm arranging the Surveyor and paying for everything. Proper headache,  it's like herding cats. 

[magnetman]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The "narrowboat builders book" by Graham Booth details fitting out a Les  Allen boat... Rome, I think it was called. 

 

I seem to recall it took more than a day to build. 

This is not surprising. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Kris9128 said:

The bilges are bone dry, we checked yesterday. There was a small access panel in the floor just inside near the access hatch into the engine room. 

Also bone dry around the prop shaft and engine,  so fingers crossed 

Could be a really nice boat I think. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Kris9128 said:

Hadn't thought about it like that, but thanks. Surveyor is not connected with the marina and its through a private sale. Will just be using marina to slip the boat. Its just a pain as the marina are saying that the owner needs to book the slip as it is their boat, but I'm arranging the Surveyor and paying for everything. Proper headache,  it's like herding cats. 

 

When buying a classic boat my own view differs from the received wisdom on here. My own view is boats you like are hard enough to find without risking losing it by getting a time-wasting survey. If you really like it, you'll buy it anyway whatever the survey says, then deal with whatever problems emerge of the course of your ownership, just as you'd do anyway.

 

So if you really like this boat, just buy it! Get the deal done then get it surveyed at your leisure, if you still feel the need. 

 

 

[Kris9128]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

When buying a classic boat my own view differs from the received wisdom on here. My own view is boats you like are hard enough to find without risking losing it by getting a time-wasting survey. If you really like it, you'll buy it anyway whatever the survey says, then deal with whatever problems emerge of the course of your ownership, just as you'd do anyway.

 

So if you really like this boat, just buy it! Get the deal done then get it surveyed at your leisure, if you still feel the need. 

 

 

Cheers MtB. To be honest,  that was my initial thought process/plan.

 I don't need a survey for finance but apparently I do need 1 for the insurance.  

 

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, Kris9128 said:

Cheers MtB. To be honest,  that was my initial thought process/plan.

 I don't need a survey for finance but apparently I do need 1 for the insurance.  

 

Only for fully comp. Third party only insurance requires no survey. 

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Kris9128 said:

Cheers MtB. To be honest,  that was my initial thought process/plan.

 I don't need a survey for finance but apparently I do need 1 for the insurance.  

 

 

Not entirely true. Third party insurance is cheap as chips and doesn't need a survey. 

 

Check out www.basic-boat.com

 

People get terribly worried about corrosion and steel less than 4mm thick, but my own view is the water only gets in with steel down to 0mm thick, and if this Les Allen is down from 6mm to say 3mm in 40 years, there's another 40 years in it before it sinks. 

 

 

 

 

[Kris9128]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Not entirely true. Third party insurance is cheap as chips and doesn't need a survey. 

 

Check out www.basic-boat.com

 

People get terribly worried about corrosion and steel less than 4mm thick, but my own view is the water only gets in with steel down to 0mm thick, and if this Les Allen is down from 6mm to say 3mm in 40 years, there's another 40 years in it before it sinks. 

 

 

 

 

That's 1 way of looking at it I suppose.  

 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Not entirely true. Third party insurance is cheap as chips and doesn't need a survey. 

 

Check out www.basic-boat.com

 

People get terribly worried about corrosion and steel less than 4mm thick, but my own view is the water only gets in with steel down to 0mm thick, and if this Les Allen is down from 6mm to say 3mm in 40 years, there's another 40 years in it before it sinks. 

 

 

 

 

Except that it will be pretty delicate at numbers above 0 but below 3,so careful what you hit😂

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

I'm yet another 3rd party insurance advocate..

 

Many (too many) decent boats have been subjected to unnecessary overplating just because the survey man said it was under 4mm. 

 

Not necessary but an inevitable symptom of insurance. 

 

 

 

 

[Kris9128]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Except that it will be pretty delicate at numbers above 0 but below 3,so careful what you hit😂

 

 

 

 

Well my nearest canal is the Bridgewater through Leigh. High probability of running aground on shopping trolleys and burnt out cars. Lol

[magnetman]

You can get special shopping trolley plates welded on the bow section. It isn't expensive. 

 

Burnt out car plates are a different story because of the momentum problem. 

 

 

[Kris9128]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm yet another 3rd party insurance advocate..

 

Many (too many) decent boats have been subjected to unnecessary overplating just because the survey man said it was under 4mm. 

 

Not necessary but an inevitable symptom of insurance. 

 

 

 

 

Cheers mate. I think I need to have a think 

My gut is to just get it. But my head says to get the survey, lol