Narrow boat or....

[magnetman]

From an environmental point of view GRP boats should no longer be produced. It is not a recyclable product. This will all go to landfill unlike metal boats. 

 

I'm sure there must be a way of grinding and reusing the product and using as some sort of aggregate but is this ever done? 

 

Perhaps time people started thinking more about appropriate use of materials. 

 

Older GRP boats can be great. 

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

From an environmental point of view GRP boats should no longer be produced. It is not a recyclable product. This will all go to landfill unlike metal boats. 

 

I'm sure there must be a way of grinding and reusing the product and using as some sort of aggregate but is this ever done? 

 

Perhaps time people started thinking more about appropriate use of materials. 

 

Older GRP boats can be great. 

 

 

 

Wood!!

[magnetman]

Is good for the fire. 

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, magnetman said:

From an environmental point of view GRP boats should no longer be produced. It is not a recyclable product. This will all go to landfill unlike metal boats. 

 

I'm sure there must be a way of grinding and reusing the product and using as some sort of aggregate but is this ever done? 

 

Perhaps time people started thinking more about appropriate use of materials. 

 

Older GRP boats can be great. 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't forget a current major user of GRP (and product with a very short life span)

In Germany, where the problem is particularly acute due to the high number of wind turbine blades reaching their end of life, it’s burnt in power plants at very high temperatures to create energy – a surprisingly clean process that results in a pile of ash which is sent to landfill.

 

 

A long (but interesting) article ........................

 

What's the future for derelict GRP boats? - Yachting Monthly

 

Extract :

 

 

Now, there are at last signs that solutions are beginning to emerge. And just in the nick of time.

But first, let’s remind ourselves of the scale of the problem.

According to a recent survey, there are an estimated six million boats in the EU alone, 95% of which are made of GRP (glass reinforced plastic).

Every year, around 1-2% (60,000-120,000) of these boats reach the end of their useful life.

 

 

 

 

A system developed by American company Eco-wolf in the 1970s has been used to turn ground-down fibreglass into bathtubs, paving tiles, railway sleepers and even coffins – as well as transom repairs for boats (transomrepair.net).

In Norway, ground GRP is used to make flowerpots and benches.

Other uses are, roughly chopped, making asphalt for road surfacing and, finely ground, mixed with cement to make concrete.

In Germany, where the problem is particularly acute due to the high number of wind turbine blades reaching their end of life, it’s burnt in power plants at very high temperatures to create energy – a surprisingly clean process that results in a pile of ash which is sent to landfill.

All these uses, however, turn a high-value product into a low-value product.

For a real closed-loop solution, the waste should ideally be reused at the same level as it was originally created.

Which is exactly what Italian company Korec has set out to achieve.

They’ve developed a thermochemical system which dissolves the resin and returns the GRP to its constituent parts so that 99% of the glass and 85% of the resin can be reused.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Bargebuilder]

30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

My GRP cruiser weighed in at 11 tonnes on its last lift out. (The engines are about 500kg each)

At 5-6 knts there is barely a ripple behind her - very aquadynamically shaped - no great pile of water being pushed up by a blunt bow.

 

To make a slightly fairer comparison, I was only refering to GRPs with a beam of 6'10", hence the 2 tonne figure; possibly almost 3t for ones with an inboard diesel.

 

Moored boats surge backwards and forwards because passing boats move a volume of water out of the way as they pass. A GRP cruiser will move up to 3 cubic metres of water, a NB up to 18m³ and a broad-beam maybe 25m³ or more.

 

Those narrowboaters who accuse GRP cruisers of passing slightly faster than a narrowboat might at tick-over, should first look at their own moored boat to see if it is actually moving any more than it would if a slower NB went past; it probably isn't. 

 

GRP cruisers often travel at the full 4mph allowed, because they can without being a nuisance; they do so without causing a wash damaging to the bank and they certainly shouldn't move a properly moored 18 tonne narrowboat. Of course they would if they passed at 6mph!

 

One thing is for certain, an 18 tonne narrowboat passing a moored GRP cruiser at 3mph will cause more surging movement than would a 3 tonne GRP cruiser passing an 18 tonne NB at 4mph.

 

It is much safer for all parties if a GRP cruiser doesn't slow down too much in windy conditions, because that's how they retain control.

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

A boat which can't be controlled during windy conditions is badly designed if it is intended to be used on waterways with a speed limit. 

 

[Bargebuilder]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

A boat which can't be controlled during windy conditions is badly designed if it is intended to be used on waterways with a speed limit. 

 

I have never come even close to losing control of my GRP cruiser, in any conditions. I have however seen many steel NBs get into a terrible mess. It's much more to do with the skipper than the vessel.

[magnetman]

I've had 5 or 6 GRP boats and the only one which gets into trouble is the floating electric beer drinking platform which is a former Eton toff training rowing boat I put an electric motor on. 

 

In it now actually. Terrible when it gets windy. 

[MtB]

38 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I have never come even close to losing control of my GRP cruiser, in any conditions. I have however seen many steel NBs get into a terrible mess. It's much more to do with the skipper than the vessel.

 

 

May I enquire exactly what GRP you have please?

 

I quite fancy getting one the same, given all the good stuff you've written about it.

 

Thanks! 

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

May I enquire exactly what GRP you have please?

 

I quite fancy getting one the same, given all the good stuff you've written about it.

 

Thanks! 

 

 

Since you wrote this about GRP cruisers earlier in this thread, I don't think I'll bother humoring you:

 

"Price. Nothing else, if you are canal cruising. Bloody cold in winter, hard to fit good heating into."

 

 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Since you wrote this about GRP cruisers earlier in this thread, I don't think I'll bother humoring you:

 

"Price. Nothing else, if you are canal cruising. Bloody cold in winter, hard to fit good heating into."

 

 

I'm perfectly capable of changing my opinion 180 degrees in a heartbeat when presented with information showing I'm wrong. Just as you have done in the thread since I posted that.

 

Hence my question, but your response leads me now to doubt that you have one. 

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

I'm perfectly capable of changing my opinion 180 degrees in a heartbeat when presented with information showing I'm wrong. Just as you have done in the thread since I posted that.

 

Hence my question, but your response leads me now to doubt that you have one. 

 

 

I am not aware of changing my opinion at all: with an understanding of the characteristics of one's cruiser and a little practice, GRPs are easy to handle in all conditions, that I've experienced anyway.

 

If you have a genuine interest rather than just trying to goad a response, my cruiser is a 'Classic 30' centre cockpit. Similar to a 'Viking' but with an inboard engine.

 

I hope you have changed your opinion and perhaps one day try cruising in one.

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

It is much safer for all parties if a GRP cruiser doesn't slow down too much in windy conditions, because that's how they retain control.

 

 

 

 

 

This is where the confusion lies. 

 

No bias against GRP.

Implication being GRP cruisers handle poorly in windy conditions. 

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

Just now, magnetman said:

 

Yes, as I said, one of the techniques for retaining full control is to keep way when it's windy. It's not difficult; try it.

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

This is where the confusion lies. 

 

No bias against GRP.

Implication being GRP cruisers handle poorly in windy conditions. 

 

 

It handled very competently last summer when we cruised from Sharpness to Portishead under the Severn Bridge in 12mph head winds.

[magnetman]

I do. 

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I am not aware of changing my opinion at all: with an understanding of the characteristics of one's cruiser and a little practice, GRPs are easy to handle in all conditions, that I've experienced anyway.

 

If you have a genuine interest rather than just trying to goad a response, my cruiser is a 'Classic 30' centre cockpit. Similar to a 'Viking' but with an inboard engine.

 

I hope you have changed your opinion and perhaps one day try cruising in one.

 

Thanks!

 

I see my post was confusing. By writing "just as you have done", I meant just as you have just changed my mind for me with your informed opinion as a user and owner:"

 

And yes I'll keep a weather eye open for a Classic 30 and probably buy one. Is "Classic" a brand name?

 

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

16 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Thanks!

 

I see my post was confusing. By writing "just as you have done", I meant just as you have just changed my mind for me with your informed opinion as a user and owner:"

 

And yes I'll keep a weather eye open for a Classic 30 and probably buy one. Is "Classic" a brand name?

 

 

 

I understand Classic to be the brand. I have seen one other like mine but a handful of aft cockpit versions that are 26 feet long. Mine is a 1984, so I assume that they are all of a similar vintage. Alas, the manufacturer has disappeared and I don't know any more about them. Mine has a Vetus 20hp which is a Mitsubishi, but that is much younger than the boat. It's the weed hatch which sets them apart from the majority of GRP cruisers, but it's certainly handy.

They are tough little things. The picture is of us doing a short coastal hop. Any self respecting narrowboat wouldn't contemplate such conditions, but a GRP cruiser, with a brave skipper just might!

[rusty69]

 

 

And I thought narrowboats are fugly. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by rusty69

[Bargebuilder]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

And I thought narrowboats are fugly. 

She looks prettier than a NB from the front, but then, even widebeam owners think their boats look nice. Beauty is in the eye...... and all that.

 

The aft cabin, although not pretty, makes extremely good use of space and having a centre cockpit gives a real feeling of safety in heavy seas because you are very well protected with much less chance of losing your footing and tumbling off the back.

 

 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

She looks prettier than a NB from the front, but then, even widebeam owners think their boats look nice. Beauty is in the eye...... and all that.

 

The aft cabin, although not pretty, makes extremely good use of space and having a centre cockpit gives a real feeling of safety in heavy seas because you are very well protected with much less chance of losing your footing and tumbling off the back.

 

 

Agreed, beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. I quite like the look of the heavenly twin catamaran, which is quite quirky, but incredibly roomy for a boat of only 26 foot. 

[Tony1]

 

I do enjoy it when this topic is periodically revisited, as it is does give one a reminder of the pros and cons that one can forget, and its an area of interest for me too.

 

One of the cons that occurred to me is vulnerability. I've been hit by narrowboats a few times in the last couple of years.

The last time, near Anderton in May, was a really heavy ding on the hull side, and gave me a major fright. I feel sure it must be the biggest impact the boat has ever had. I can only guess what speed he was doing, but he left a visible dent in the hull side. 

I was changing clothes at the time, so by the time I got out, the offending boat had gone around a corner.

It did occur to me- what damage would that idiot have done if I were in a GRP boat?

Could the hull crack in some way under a 5mph impact from a narrowboat bow, hitting it at say 45 degrees? 

 

The other cons that I've seen mentioned are the lack of efficient electricity generation from the engine (if it has an outboard), and the lack of roof space for solar panels - obviously issues if you want to live aboard, not so much if you only do a few weeks cruising.

 

My steed of choice would be the Viking 32cc or similar, with a very small SF stove and some kind of extra water capacity (I think the standard tank is about 25 gallons). Again, only an issue if you want to live aboard for longer periods and stay out in the sticks for longer periods.

The rear cabin would make a great storage area, meaning it doesnt need heating very often.  

 

My impression is most GRPs can turn 180 in so many places that you dont have that occasional narrowboat palaver of going 3 miles in the 'wrong' direction to get to the next winding hole, just so you can turn around and go in your chosen direction.

 

But if I still want to cruise and spend months living aboard in say 10 years from now, and if I feel I might struggle physically to manage an 18 ton narrowboat, then a 32ft GRP might be a good option. 

I suspect stepping aboard them might be a bot more tricky as they bob around a bit more, but pulling them to a stop or hauling them in against a strong side wind should be much easier. 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Tony1

[Bargebuilder]

18 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I do enjoy it when this topic is periodically revisited, as it is does give one a reminder of the pros and cons that one can forget, and its an area of interest for me too.

 

One of the cons that occurred to me is vulnerability. I've been hit by narrowboats a few times in the last couple of years.

The last time, near Anderton in May, was a really heavy ding on the hull side, and gave me a major fright. I feel sure it must be the biggest impact the boat has ever had. I can only guess what speed he was doing, but he left a visible dent in the hull side. 

I was changing clothes at the time, so by the time I got out, the offending boat had gone around a corner.

It did occur to me- what damage would that idiot have done if I were in a GRP boat?

Could the hull crack in some way under a 5mph impact from a narrowboat bow, hitting it at say 45 degrees? 

 

The other cons that I've seen mentioned are the lack of efficient electricity generation from the engine (if it has an outboard), and the lack of roof space for solar panels - obviously issues if you want to live aboard, not so much if you only do a few weeks cruising.

 

My steed of choice would be the Viking 32cc or similar, with a very small SF stove and some kind of extra water capacity (I think the standard tank is about 25 gallons). Again, only an issue if you want to live aboard for longer periods and stay out in the sticks for longer periods.

The rear cabin would make a great storage area, meaning it doesnt need heating very often.  

 

My impression is most GRPs can turn 180 in so many places that you dont have that occasional narrowboat palaver of going 3 miles in the 'wrong' direction to get to the next winding hole, just so you can turn around and go in your chosen direction.

 

But if I still want to cruise and spend months living aboard in say 10 years from now, and if I feel I might struggle physically to manage an 18 ton narrowboat, then a 32ft GRP might be a good option. 

I suspect stepping aboard them might be a bot more tricky as they bob around a bit more, but pulling them to a stop or hauling them in against a strong side wind should be much easier. 

 

 

All good points.

 

GRPs are a lot tougher than you might think: we have been hit in the side by a big NB, but at fairly low speed and no damage was done. So long as you are not sandwiched against an immovable object such as the canal side, GRPs are so light that they just move sideways in a collision. You do learn to choose your mooring position carefully and avoid bends where NBs with inexperienced skippers might lose control.

 

A professional skipper towing a dumb barge once lost control of his tow at Foxton Locks, which then hit us head on, but we just bounced off.

 

We prefer to travel through two way long tunnels late in the day when they are quiet out of preference, but we've done most of them now without any problems.

 

We always share wide locks with NBs where possible as they hold us nicely in place!

 

I've never seen a GRP that appears to have been damaged by a collision, but there is a tiny chance that it could happen.

[rusty69]

The gel coat on our grp boat has been clearly damaged by collision on many occasions by impact from boats . The culprits very rarely (read never for this) own up. 

 

Admittedly, it is a coastal boat, so perhaps more scope for being damaged at speed by pointy ended craft. 

 

Thanfully, gel coat repairs are not too difficult as long as you aren't too fussy that the colour matches. Though matching gelcoat isn't that hard, particularly if it is white. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by rusty69

[Tony1]

16 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

You do learn to choose your mooring position carefully and avoid bends where NBs with inexperienced skippers might lose control.

 

 

Normally I never moor near to a bridge or bend for this reason, but around Anderton there aren't many 14 days moorings, as you'll know- its mostly 48 hours.

I found a decent spot, but it was heavily overlooked by high trees and a steep bank, and so I foolishly moved closer to a bridge/bend in order to get more sun for the panels, and because I was getting fed up with the interior being gloomy (as I have smallish windows). 

 

But on the plus side, with a 32ft boat there will be many good mooring spots in popular locations that one can get into, that a 55ft narrowboat cannot. 

 

 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

and because I was getting fed up with the interior being gloomy (as I have smallish windows). 

 

 

Easily fixed by adding dog boxes, Houdini hatches or even a large porthole or two in the roof. 

 

This way one maintains one's privacy too.