Attempt to evict the Lama Lady

[chris w]

Where does the four years come from?

 

There is a statute of limitation of 4 years for buildings/structures erected without planning permission if no order has been served prior to this time.

 

Chris

Edited December 5, 2007 by chris w

[Gnome K Gnome]

They have permission to moor there, yes. But NOT to build the decking or place the caravans. That is the heart of the issue.

 

There is a subtle difference between having BW permission to moor a boat there to having permission to use it as a dwelling.

[boater75]

There is a statute of limitation of 4 years for buildings/structures erected without planning permission if no order has been served prior to this time.

 

Chris

As a newby to this forum I am somewhat surprised by some of the postings, the degree of legality involved and the amount of barrack room lawyers who contribute is quite surprising on my travels up and down the waterways I have never encountered such a degree of legal knowledge, I do hope that should I ever encounter a problem in life that I can call in at one the many free consulting rooms and get my legal advice taken care of. One thing that does seem to be offensive is the semi victimization of certain people for their own thoughts I believe we should live and let live and we are not here long enough on this earth to bear grudges and why not allow people who want a certain life style to live out their dreams, after all moving onto the water is certainly a dramatic change from the normal brit who resides in his or her house. So far I have read some of the postings and it really disturbs me that very few of the original topics are concerned with the act of cruising and boating but I do hope that the standard of postings improve otherwise I will have wasted my pension on wireless thingy’s to watch a bunch of kids squabbling over a few chickens and a goats!

[Chris J W]

There is a subtle difference between having BW permission to moor a boat there to having permission to use it as a dwelling.

 

That's partly what I meant.

 

(Unless I've miss-understood your post? Apologies if I have)

 

There is a statute of limitation of 4 years for buildings/structures erected without planning permission if no order has been served prior to this time.Chris

 

Are you sure about this, Chris?

 

Sorry, I'm not casting asperiations on your post, but that does seem an awfully short time, especially if you are changing the usage of land from agricultural to residential use.

 

[edit to correct the removed LF problem when replying to two posts]

Edited December 5, 2007 by Chris J W

[carlt]

One thing that does seem to be offensive is the semi victimization of certain people for their own thoughts I believe we should live and let live and we are not here long enough on this earth to bear grudges and why not allow people who want a certain life style to live out their dreams, after all moving onto the water is certainly a dramatic change from the normal brit who resides in his or her house. So far I have read some of the postings and it really disturbs me that very few of the original topics are concerned with the act of cruising and boating but I do hope that the standard of postings improve otherwise I will have wasted my pension on wireless thingy's to watch a bunch of kids squabbling over a few chickens and a goats!

Not sure what you're getting at?? Where are people being victimised on this thread (semi, detached or any other form)

 

People express their opinions, other people disagree. People offer advice, some of it useful. It's a talking shop, so people talk.

 

Oh, and if people bore grudges here, it'd never work.

 

Welcome to the forum by the way.

Edited December 5, 2007 by carlt

[Gnome K Gnome]

I believe we should live and let live and we are not here long enough on this earth to bear grudges and why not allow people who want a certain life style to live out their dreams,

 

So where do we draw the line then. Which laws is it ok to disregard and which not, in the pursuit of my dreams???

[chris w]

I believe we should live and let live and we are not here long enough on this earth to bear grudges and why not allow people who want a certain life style to live out their dreams

 

Oh God, another bleeding-heart liberal

 

I do hope that the standard of postings improve otherwise I will have wasted my pension on wireless thingy’s to watch a bunch of kids squabbling over a few chickens and a goats!

 

...................and a curmudgeon

 

Chris

 

............and by what logic are you making the presumption that we're only barrack-room lawyers?

Edited December 6, 2007 by chris w

[carlt]

Oh God, another bleeding-heart liberal

Hey don't blame us...our hearts may bleed but we still relish the argument.

[chris w]

Oh no you don't...............

Edited December 6, 2007 by chris w

[tomsk]

Oh God, another bleeding-heart liberal

...................and a curmudgeon

 

Chris

 

............and by what logic are you making the presumption that we're only barrack-room lawyers?

 

 

Or for that matter barrack room Surveyors.....I could give you verse and chapter on planning and related issues, but you couldnt afford me and it would only start a heated debate.

[GUMPY]

Since when did you need planning permission to build decking ?

 

If they've been there for more than 4 years without complaint they can't be moved.

 

If its a change of use of the land, which it is, then its not four years its ten years and then you have to apply for established use.

 

Julian

Edited December 6, 2007 by idleness

[Sir Nibble]

Every so often there is a news story about a bunch of pikeys buying an agricultural field and then fighting for the right to live on it. Based on the premise that if permission is granted the land suddenly becomes worth a fortune for development and just perhaps they might trouser the wedge and move on, permission is not forthcoming. I don't see where ownership of a boat on the part of the applicant makes this a boating issue.

[carlt]

Every so often there is a news story about a bunch of pikeys buying an agricultural field and then fighting for the right to live on it. Based on the premise that if permission is granted the land suddenly becomes worth a fortune for development and just perhaps they might trouser the wedge and move on, permission is not forthcoming. I don't see where ownership of a boat on the part of the applicant makes this a boating issue.

Because, if she's living on the boat, not in the caravans, then it has implications for every liveaboard who is on a long term, non-resi, mooring with BW's blessing, but not the local authority's.

[GUMPY]

Because, if she's living on the boat, not in the caravans, then it has implications for every liveaboard who is on a long term, non-resi, mooring with BW's blessing, but not the local authority's.

 

The law states that unless PP has been granteed for a residential mooring then the mooring can only be used as leisure mooring.

The only exception to this is where a mooring has been used for more than ten years as residential with no enforcement action by the local council, then the owner of the mooring can apply for establised change of use.

 

There was one case a while ago where a judge ruled against the LA in a residential moorings case saying that " a mooring is a mooring does not matter what its use is" but I dont know the details.

 

Julian

[Sir Nibble]

liveaboard who is on a long term, non-resi, mooring

Translation: Living on a non residential site in contravention of planning law.

[John Orentas]

In the area where I live the councils and planning authorities are plagued with this sort of thing, very little new building is allowed and there are still large numbers of derelict agricultural buildings scattered everywhere, a recipe for problems..

 

So many people think that they have found a loophole in the law or that they are an exceptional case, many simply assume they are more clever than everyone else.. If I build a posh house up here it will be a fete-accompis ? "They cannot possibly make me knock it down again", others blatantly improve the accommodation for their cows with underfloor heating double glazing etc..

 

Well sadly, occasionally people are forced to knock down their fancy though illegal houses there is no other way if we want to maintain some sort of control..

Edited December 6, 2007 by John Orentas

[carlt]

The law states that unless PP has been granteed for a residential mooring then the mooring can only be used as leisure mooring.The only exception to this is where a mooring has been used for more than ten years as residential with no enforcement action by the local council, then the owner of the mooring can apply for establised change of use.There was one case a while ago where a judge ruled against the LA in a residential moorings case saying that " a mooring is a mooring does not matter what its use is" but I dont know the details.Julian

 

Yes I'm aware of the law. I was highlighting the huge number of people, online and in marinas, this affects.

 

It is precisely their lack of security, in their home, that I was pointing out.

 

Translation: Living on a non residential site in contravention of planning law.

 

No translation necessary. I'm well aware of the planning laws.

 

But I wonder how many liveaboards, on non-residential, long-term moorings, turn their noses up at 'bridge hoppers'.

Edited December 6, 2007 by carlt

[Sir Nibble]

But I wonder how many liveaboards, on non-residential, long-term moorings, turn their noses up at 'bridge hoppers'.

OK Carl, there may be a hierarchy of upturning noses, but how is that relevant to this issue?

[carlt]

OK Carl, there may be a hierarchy of upturning noses, but how is that relevant to this issue?

It is relevant because it could affect a hell of a lot of boaters. You said it wasn't a boating issue, I was pointing out that it was.

[Sir Nibble]

It is relevant because it could affect a hell of a lot of boaters. You said it wasn't a boating issue, I was pointing out that it was.

I don't agree, any more than evicting a group of pikeys from a local park or sports field is a motoring issue.

[carlt]

I don't agree, any more than evicting a group of pikeys from a local park or sports field is a motoring issue.

There are a lot of boaters (the vast majority of online and marina based liveaboards) who would disagree.

[Sir Nibble]

There are a lot of boaters (the vast majority of online and marina based liveaboards) who would disagree.

Quite, but not because they are boaters, but because they are living there illegally. The boaters concerned have common cause with other people trying to hide from, or shout down the planning laws, but it has nothing to do with boats per se and every thing to do with flouting the law.

I happily smoke a little dope, (smoking grass counts as one of your five a day) and so do some other boaters, but that does not make the whole tedious "free the weed" debate a boating issue.

[Machpoint005]

I'm with Snibs on this one: the eviction is to do with people living somewhere illegally. The lack of planning permission means they are flouting the planning laws. The fact that they live on a boat makes it of interest to forum members. So far, so good.

 

The thing that bothers me is, did these people know they were in breach of planning laws, and did they start discussing the matter with the local planning authority once they found out they were in breach? Did the LPA act reasonably in informing the Llama Lady, and what did she do as a result? If she continued to argue, instead of applying for the necessary permissions or seeking to find a compromise, she gets no sympathy from me. If the LPA is being unreasonable, the Ombudsman can help her.

 

I suspect that many here have lost sight of the ball, because of (1) boat owners' solidarity, and (2) the fluffy animal factor. Why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

 

Ian

 

(PS never mind how fluffy they are, how do you roast them?)

[magnetman]

ATTEMPT to evict l(l)ama lady. Its not happened yet has it?. People living illegally on long term moorings? They are all just having long holidays and 'leading a life of leisure' is there a law against 365 day a year holidays?

[sueb]

ATTEMPT to evict l(l)ama lady. Its not happened yet has it?. People living illegally on long term moorings? They are all just having long holidays and 'leading a life of leisure' is there a law against 365 day a year holidays?

I've been on holiday for 20 years Sue