Trent and Mersey Derwent Mouth to Burton

[Big Bob W]

We are looking at the Leicester ring in a couple of weeks

CRT have an ongoing advisory regarding water levels on the Trent and Mersey - Derwent Mouth Lock to Burton  stretch.

Can anyone advise what the levels are actually like right now on that section?

[Big Bob W]

Well thats our Leicester Ring plans down the pan then!

 

Notice Alert

Trent & Mersey Canal
Location: Derwent Mouth Lock - Trent & Mersey Canal
Starts At: Lock 1, Derwent Mouth Lock
Ends At: Lock 1, Derwent Mouth Lock

Wednesday 5 July 2023 until further notice

Type: Navigation Closure
Reason: Water resources

---

Original message:

Due to the unexpected drop in water levels on the Trent & Mersey, we have made the decision to temporarily close Derwent Mouth Lock.  

Our local team are carrying out water control and the closure of the lock will help them to manage the levels.

Boaters are kindly asked to avoid travelling along the rest of the Trent & Mersey where possible, to minimise the levels from dropping further.  

[Guest]

The current rate at which major stoppages are coming in are one reason we are re considering our plans to take a hire boat holiday next year.

 

It was at one time a winter hazard but un planned stoppages seem very common throughout the year and if you only have a boat for a week or two something like this would completely scupper a holiday.

[PeterF]

We came down that stretch a week and a half ago and water levels were fine. In fact the day we went down Derwent mouth lock was the day they removed the previous notice about sharing. We were returning along the Soar and noted the share the lock notice was back, but today's update has us stuck at Sawley cut waiting for Friday morning update.

[Sea Dog]

16 hours ago, Big Bob W said:

Well thats our Leicester Ring plans down the pan then!

Well, the stoppage notice does go on to say:

 

We are working with our colleagues from the West Midlands to run water down the system and are doing all we can to get the levels back to normal. 

 

We will update the website on Friday 7th July. 

 

So, unless it's essential to go through today, your plans (and my own) are still in with a shout.

[Lofty88]

We are collecting a hire boat on Saturday from Barton Turns Marina and planning to head south from there- is this likely to affect us?

[PaulJ]

2 minutes ago, Lofty88 said:

We are collecting a hire boat on Saturday from Barton Turns Marina and planning to head south from there- is this likely to affect us?

I would expect CRT to either ask boaters to share the lock or put restricted hours/manage the lock with vollies.

Guess we will hopefully find out tomorrow ..

[Sea Dog]

31 minutes ago, Lofty88 said:

We are collecting a hire boat on Saturday from Barton Turns Marina and planning to head south from there- is this likely to affect us?

Not if you're turning right out of the marina to head south towards Fradley Junction. Derwent Mouth lock is a fair way north of you, where the T&M connects with the River Trent. Have a great holiday. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Sea Dog
Autocorrect though the Trent was a Rover rather than a river.

[enigmatic]

Water at Derwent Mouth isn't that low, but it is padlocked shut. Made my decision to go down the Leicester line easier

[Midnight]

On 06/07/2023 at 09:40, Sea Dog said:

Well, the stoppage notice does go on to say:

 

We are working with our colleagues from the West Midlands to run water down the system and are doing all we can to get the levels back to normal. 

 

We will update the website on Friday 7th July. 

 

So, unless it's essential to go through today, your plans (and my own) are still in with a shout.

 

How would that work?
Any water run down from above Alrewas would surely escape into the Trent on the river section. If they can pump it back into the canal why aren't they doing it now? As that section below Alrewas is fed by the Trent it can only be leaks causing the problem? 
C&RT apologists fill your boots.

[PaulJ]

46 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

How would that work?
Any water run down from above Alrewas would surely escape into the Trent on the river section. If they can pump it back into the canal why aren't they doing it now? As that section below Alrewas is fed by the Trent it can only be leaks causing the problem? 
C&RT apologists fill your boots.

I'm not sure where the boundary starts between East and West Midlands is. Looks to be around Burton ish according to the very vague Region Map I have- so below Alrewas might be West Midlands.

[Midnight]

3 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

I'm not sure where the boundary starts between East and West Midlands is. Looks to be around Burton ish according to the very vague Region Map I have- so below Alrewas might be West Midlands.

 

Supposing your are correct where would the water come from? I only ask because we are hoping to return to Yorkshire and at the moment every option is closed apart from a deviation along the Leicester Grand Union and the Soar.

[Leaky]

Increasing the feed coming out of the trent at wychnor is not going to fix the low water beyond dallow lock. There are a number of flood weirs in the pounds in between and any extra water will simply wash down these weirs. There are also 5 byweirs for the extra water to go through all with grills that block up with weeds and debris carried by the stronger flow.

The solution is fairly straight forward, fix the leaky gates on the double locks from stenson to derwent mouth.

[PaulJ]

5 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

Supposing your are correct where would the water come from? I only ask because we are hoping to return to Yorkshire and at the moment every option is closed apart from a deviation along the Leicester Grand Union and the Soar.

I'd (probably wrongly as I'm generally rather good at misunderstanding things ) taken the notice to mean that West Midlands would be running down the extra needed to Derwent from below Wychnor Lock/R.Trent. I've often wondered how they work out how much actually goes into that River section and then how much to take out at the other end.

It's all a bit of a pain-I might have been stuck there too but closure on Nene buggered me before I even got that far 😀

[PeterF]

I have been sat in Sawley cur since Wednesday lunchtime. This morning lots of boats coming downstream said Derwent Mouth was open. So I set off and it was padlocked. Apparently the lock had been cut by someone early morning, lots of boaters go through believing the stoppage has cleared, at least a dozen. By time I get there it had been repadlocked by CRT. The galling thing is the water level even after all the boats had been through was still over the bywash weir.

[Midnight]

3 minutes ago, PeterF said:

I have been sat in Sawley cur since Wednesday lunchtime. This morning lots of boats coming downstream said Derwent Mouth was open. So I set off and it was padlocked. Apparently the lock had been cut by someone early morning, lots of boaters go through believing the stoppage has cleared, at least a dozen. By time I get there it had been repadlocked by CRT. The galling thing is the water level even after all the boats had been through was still over the bywash weir.

You need a Rochdale Canal lock key

[Mike Todd]

5 hours ago, Leaky said:

Increasing the feed coming out of the trent at wychnor is not going to fix the low water beyond dallow lock. There are a number of flood weirs in the pounds in between and any extra water will simply wash down these weirs. There are also 5 byweirs for the extra water to go through all with grills that block up with weeds and debris carried by the stronger flow.

The solution is fairly straight forward, fix the leaky gates on the double locks from stenson to derwent mouth.

Given that CaRT's budget for such works is already fully subscribed (over, to be truthful as overruns cause cancellations) which ones on the current lists would you cancel in favour of these locks? Given that the winter programme especially already goes through quite a bit of trading off and consultation.

[Leaky]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

Given that CaRT's budget for such works is already fully subscribed (over, to be truthful as overruns cause cancellations) which ones on the current lists would you cancel in favour of these locks? Given that the winter programme especially already goes through quite a bit of trading off and consultation.

I don't see it as an either/or. From what I've seen most of the water loss is through the mitre on the bottom gates and from the cill on the the top gate. A liner can be fitted on a top gate in a one day stoppage, assuming the cill is not broken. Granted, bottom gate mitres take a little longer, a day or so to pump out the water and a day to refit the liners in the mitre. 

Aston, Weston and Derwent mouth have leaked badly for years, a temporary fix should be put in place now pending full repairs when CRT can fit them in to their winter works.

 

[Mike Todd]

18 hours ago, Leaky said:

I don't see it as an either/or. From what I've seen most of the water loss is through the mitre on the bottom gates and from the cill on the the top gate. A liner can be fitted on a top gate in a one day stoppage, assuming the cill is not broken. Granted, bottom gate mitres take a little longer, a day or so to pump out the water and a day to refit the liners in the mitre. 

Aston, Weston and Derwent mouth have leaked badly for years, a temporary fix should be put in place now pending full repairs when CRT can fit them in to their winter works.

 

Still costs money

[PeterF]

Derwent Mouth opened this morning. Travelled up to above Stenson. Water levels all OK.

One boat that was travelling today said the problem started with the recent replacement gates at Stenson which do not leak. If the bywash at Stenson or upstream block and the canal overtops the overflow wiers then no water gets below Stenson to replenish the leaks on the other 5 broad locks. I do not know if this is the real reason or not, I repeat it for interest. The other thing he said was Stenson was in one CRT area (W. Mids?) And the other 5 were in another area (E.Mids?) so there was no joined up thinking when Syenson was regated. Again, I do not know the truth of this.

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, PeterF said:

Derwent Mouth opened this morning. Travelled up to above Stenson. Water levels all OK.

One boat that was travelling today said the problem started with the recent replacement gates at Stenson which do not leak. If the bywash at Stenson or upstream block and the canal overtops the overflow wiers then no water gets below Stenson to replenish the leaks on the other 5 broad locks. I do not know if this is the real reason or not, I repeat it for interest. The other thing he said was Stenson was in one CRT area (W. Mids?) And the other 5 were in another area (E.Mids?) so there was no joined up thinking when Syenson was regated. Again, I do not know the truth of this.

A few years ago we had exactly the same experience/story on the Leicester section.