'pointless' Need some help collecting narrowboat data

[Tony Brooks]

9 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

However you cannot discover that unless your answers let you get beyond the first page.

 

Tam

 

Precisely, His survey looks to me as a very amateur effort. If he wants data then demanding fields be filled in before it allows you to move on is self-defeating.

[MtB]

31 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Precisely, His survey looks to me as a very amateur effort. If he wants data then demanding fields be filled in before it allows you to move on is self-defeating.

 

Seconded. 

 

Being unable to review all the questions before starting off answering them put me right off. I had no idea if I was going to be asked 4 questions or 400. And the nature of the first few questions I could actually see led me to doubt the value of investing any time in it at all. 

 

I dunno what the initial questions are now but for any app claiming to be able to "value a boat" to start off with "When was the boat last valued and what was the value?" (or something along those lines) had me closing the window immediately. 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

34 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Seconded. 

 

Being unable to review all the questions before starting off answering them put me right off. I had no idea if I was going to be asked 4 questions or 400. And the nature of the first few questions I could actually see led me to doubt the value of investing any time in it at all. 

 

I dunno what the initial questions are now but for any app claiming to be able to "value a boat" to start off with "When was the boat last valued and what was the value?" (or something along those lines) had me closing the window immediately. 

 

 

That was the question, and another later related to it,  that made me give up on it. I couldn't actually work out what figures were required or quite what and when they related to. It's important in any survey, especially for mathematical use, that questions aren't ambiguous. A bit like the error in the boatbuilders list,  putting "other" under O instead of at the end. I rather think GIGO is going to apply, sadly.

[agg221]

If you care to add dates back to 1850 and 'iron' as a construction material then I will add ours.

 

Alec

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Seconded. 

 

Being unable to review all the questions before starting off answering them put me right off. I had no idea if I was going to be asked 4 questions or 400. And the nature of the first few questions I could actually see led me to doubt the value of investing any time in it at all. 

 

I dunno what the initial questions are now but for any app claiming to be able to "value a boat" to start off with "When was the boat last valued and what was the value?" (or something along those lines) had me closing the window immediately. 

 

 

 

It was the fact his survey seemed to know and display my email address that got me, not that in my case it is in any way secret. I suspect it is Google that knows my email address, but it calls the data security of his whole effort into question. Why use Google that is happy to steal copyright images and make them freely available, and also seems to have some very odd terms and conditions. What is wrong with Survey Monkey, or a DIY approach. However, I suspect the latter is more work and will not do any automated collation of responses.

[toppy007]

I'm almost up to 30 data sets 

 

So big thank you to everyone who has contributed or tried to contribute.

 

Much appreciated 

 

 

[toppy007]

1 hour ago, agg221 said:

If you care to add dates back to 1850 and 'iron' as a construction material then I will add ours.

 

Alec

Wow 

 

She is an old girl, I've extended the date and add Iron

 

Good luck, my just make the England game seem exciting filling this out before!!!

 

 

[toppy007]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

That was the question, and another later related to it,  that made me give up on it. I couldn't actually work out what figures were required or quite what and when they related to. It's important in any survey, especially for mathematical use, that questions aren't ambiguous. A bit like the error in the boatbuilders list,  putting "other" under O instead of at the end. I rather think GIGO is going to apply, sadly.

Arthur thanks for the recommendation.

 

I'll add 'others' to the bottom. Just for my own sanity can you explain with an example what questions you struggled to answer. I might be able to reword something.

 

As for the required field's these are generally denoted with '*'! do you recommend this is added to the introduction?

 

Regards

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

26 minutes ago, toppy007 said:

As for the required field's these are generally denoted with '*'! do you recommend this is added to the introduction

 

 

You are asking people to give up their time to fill in your survey. You, and your teachers/lecturers, expect them to do this for free. Your effort is just the latest from a long line of similar requests the forum and elsewhere get over the years. Now, if you want people to help you I would have thought it was not wise to prevent them having a quick look through your questions to see if they think the questions are reasonable and answerable. You have already been told a number are unclear and not answerable yet you persist in demanding answers, so getting feedback on later questions is prevented by your insistence on mandatory fields. I recommend that you do away with the mandatory fields so those willing to help you can assess the whole set of questions.

 

A number of members here are professionals across the whole range of inland boating and normally if you ask a professional to do something for you, you should expect to be charged the going rate for their time. If they are happy to answer for free then good on them but I do wonder how keen you would be on your project if you had to pay their minimum invoice fee for them to answer. In fact there is a whole range of professionals in other fields here, some of which have offered you help. I wonder how your institution would react to getting a slew of invoices to pay.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[MtB]

39 minutes ago, toppy007 said:

As for the required field's these are generally denoted with '*'! do you recommend this is added to the introduction?

 

 

I'd point out there are no "required fields", as people avoid filling them in by simply not doing the survey.

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by MtB
Typo.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

I'd point out there are no "required fields", as people avoid filling them in but simply not doing the survey.

 

 

 

Which is not, I assume, what the OP wants. Being unable to review ALL the questions certainly put me off going any further. The way the OP has treated the forum at times and the way he seems to think his way or nothing seems rather arrogant or entitled to me.

[toppy007]

7 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

You are asking people to give up their time to fill in your survey. You, and your teachers/lecturers, expect them to do this for free. Your effort is just the latest from a long line of similar requests the forum and elsewhere get over the years. Now, if you want people to help you I would have thought it was not wise to prevent them having a quick look through your questions to see if they think the questions are reasonable and answerable. You have already been told a number are unclear and not answerable yet you persist in demanding answers, so getting feedback on later questions is prevented by your insistence on mandatory fields. I recommend that you do away with the mandatory fields so those willing to help you can assess the whole set of questions.

 

A number of members here are professionals across the whole range of inland boating and normally if you ask a professional to do something for you, you should expect to be charged the going rate for their time. If they are happy to answer for free then good on them but I do wonder how keen you would be on your project if you had to pay their minimum invoice fee for them to answer. In fact there is a whole range of professionals in other fields here, some of which have offered you help. I wonder how your institution would react to getting a slew of invoices to pay.

 

 

Live and let live tony

 

I'm taking onboard advise as I go. I am asking for a contribution knowing that it is of no financial reward. it is up to the community if they wish to support or not and i am OK if people don't want to waste their time. 

 

I have selected to keep some mandatory fields because i deem these as key factors in the data's features. I am not able to allow navigation without them using google forms.

 

I do state the questionnaire will take about 15 minutes.

 

Anyways. take it easy

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, toppy007 said:

I have selected to keep some mandatory fields because i deem these as key factors in the data's features. I am not able to allow navigation without them using google forms.

 

Then try Survey Monkey, and I am sure there are others as well.

[toppy007]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Then try Survey Monkey, and I am sure there are others as well.

I have already had a look at survey monkey and its feature are better, however i was not willing to make a financial commitment.

 

But thanks for the suggestion 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

So you'd rather have fewer, incorrect answers, than greater numbers giving useful, correct information just to save you investing a few pounds in getting better designed software and questions.

 

Could your parents not contribute towards the Survey Monkey costs if it helps you gain a useful qualification ?

 

What level of schooling is this project intended for - is it "AS" level ?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, toppy007 said:

I have already had a look at survey monkey and its feature are better, however i was not willing to make a financial commitment.

 

But thanks for the suggestion 

 

 

If the school is setting this sort of project I would expect them to hold a Survey Monkey licence for student use.

[Arthur Marshall]

I'd try a couple of Facebook groups if you haven't already, Narrowboat Owners Group is one but there are several. Probably get a wider range of owners there than on here. There are a couple of other narrowboat forums, too.

I'm afraid I'm not going to wade through the survey again to track down what I found unanswerable. Others obviously haven't had my problem!

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Seconded. 

 

Being unable to review all the questions before starting off answering them put me right off. I had no idea if I was going to be asked 4 questions or 400. And the nature of the first few questions I could actually see led me to doubt the value of investing any time in it at all. 

 

I dunno what the initial questions are now but for any app claiming to be able to "value a boat" to start off with "When was the boat last valued and what was the value?" (or something along those lines) had me closing the window immediately. 

 

 

You misunderstand - I think: the survey is not part of using any future app but to collect data on which to build the app.

 

BTW, I would have attempted to complete the questionnaire but I understand that it will only help if I can provide a value. Our boat as built for us five years ago and, at present at least, we have no reason to ask anyone else for an estimate of the value. I could imagine that its value is what it cost us but I am not that naïve.  Its value to us is inestimable!

[Tony Brooks]

36 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

You misunderstand - I think: the survey is not part of using any future app but to collect data on which to build the app.

 

BTW, I would have attempted to complete the questionnaire but I understand that it will only help if I can provide a value. Our boat as built for us five years ago and, at present at least, we have no reason to ask anyone else for an estimate of the value. I could imagine that its value is what it cost us but I am not that naïve.  Its value to us is inestimable!

 

I think that you don't fully understand why he wants the data. He intends to use it to train an AI app, so the data becomes imbedded in the way the AI works out the value. Your final paragraph says it all really, value is an intangible but cost/price is not. I am not aware that even AI can work on intangibles.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

You misunderstand - I think: the survey is not part of using any future app but to collect data on which to build the app.

 

BTW, I would have attempted to complete the questionnaire but I understand that it will only help if I can provide a value. Our boat as built for us five years ago and, at present at least, we have no reason to ask anyone else for an estimate of the value. I could imagine that its value is what it cost us but I am not that naïve.  Its value to us is inestimable!

That again was my problem. Value when I bought it ok, but there's been a bit of inflation over the last thirty years, so is that relevant? And I have no idea of its current value, any more than anyone has until they try to sell on.

[toppy007]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

That again was my problem. Value when I bought it ok, but there's been a bit of inflation over the last thirty years, so is that relevant? And I have no idea of its current value, any more than anyone has until they try to sell on.

Hi Arthur yes that data set is priceless for me. In knowing those figures from those dates I can begin to understand how demand and inflammation effect today's prices. Thanks for filling it out.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, toppy007 said:

...... inflammation effect ................

 

 

That Covid is still rampant.

 

 

11 minutes ago, toppy007 said:

effect today's prices.

 

Presumably you mean "affect" 

 

What’s the difference between “affect” and “effect"

1 • Affect is a verb – “to affect” – meaning to influence or have an impact on something.

2 • Effect is the noun – “an effect (a positive or a negative effect) is the result of being affected by something. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

That Covid is still rampant.

 

 

 

Presumably you mean "affect" 

 

I blame all them teachers!

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

I blame all them teachers!

 

 

 

It's a good job he came onto the forum, with the education he is getting here he'll be top of the class.

[Stevec]

Your search for boat pricing is very nebulus because of the variations in age, features and quality of finish - but for what its worth, I sold my narrowboat a few years ago and having worked at a boatyard/ hire base, we got many vistors asking  "whats the price for a boat" - at that time the general ball park figure was to say £1000 per foot new.

 

So using that as a yard sitck to get a price for mine, I went on the web boats for sale, collected  a selection of boats similar to my own and noted the year of making, its length and the current asking price. If you calculate a new price at £1000 per foot and the number of years in use and current asking price, the calculation will give you a depreciation per year. Do this for a number of boats and add up the depreciations - divide by boat numbers and you have an average. Using that I was able to arrive at a current value that was near to what I had expected.

If you want to use different boat lengths in the survey then divide prices by length to get again an average per foot

The boatyard shut a few years later and I used the formulea to calculate the value of the hire fleet The owner said its was near to what he believed the boats were worth.

 

Its not perfect but the more boats you sample similar to the desired size (or with the desired fatures) narrows the figure you seek.

If canal World members think this is useless - then put up your own attempt to price a boat

I wish MartynG luck with their efforts