Electrics system on my boat - halp!

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

 

Jen's post is fair enough & I'm glad I gave you a giggle but to say that my post was entirely incorrect is utter bollocks. Perhaps you'd like to explain exactly why all the points that I made are incorrect?

 

It is too general. You are probably correct if you have a cheap far eastern inverter, a cheap TV and a low energy rated fridge, but if you have a quality inverte and the highest energy rated fridge experience seems to show that changing them to 12 volt is unlikely to make a significant difference and is probably not cost-effective. However, your advice is not relevant to the OP at this time, and I don't know how you deduce they actually are running a mains TV and fridge via an inverter. The OP needs to get a grip of battery management and once they have done that start to think about the possibility of buying new equipment to reduce the consumption. They also need to understand their system that sounds rather an old one to me.

 

I would suggest that if they are running mains equipment via a quality inverter they may be better advised to look into installing as much solar as they can.

 

It would also be a good idea to use 12V DC (car) adaptors to charge phones and run laptop computers.

[Crewcut]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It is too general. You are probably correct if you have a cheap far eastern inverter, a cheap TV and a low energy rated fridge, but if you have a quality inverte and the highest energy rated fridge experience seems to show that changing them to 12 volt is unlikely to make a significant difference and is probably not cost-effective. However, your advice is not relevant to the OP at this time, and I don't know how you deduce they actually are running a mains TV and fridge via an inverter. The OP needs to get a grip of battery management and once they have done that start to think about the possibility of buying new equipment to reduce the consumption. They also need to understand their system that sounds rather an old one to me.

 

I would suggest that if they are running mains equipment via a quality inverter they may be better advised to look into installing as much solar as they can.

 

It would also be a good idea to use 12V DC (car) adaptors to charge phones and run laptop computers.

 

I appreciate the clarification, wasn't aware that good quality inverters are as good as they (apparently) are. Only thing I'd disagree with here is I did say "if" the OP has 230v fridge & TV, I did not deduce that they had...

[mrsmelly]

16 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

 

Jen's post is fair enough & I'm glad I gave you a giggle but to say that my post was entirely incorrect is utter bollocks. Perhaps you'd like to explain exactly why all the points that I made are incorrect?

All three of my last boats were fully mains. The last one had a couple of 12 volt fridges when I bought it but I sold them to forum members. A decent, modern inverter/combi uses about half an amp on standby so bugger all in the scheme of things. Modern mains fridges are  very much more frugal than they used to be, as is all mains stuff. A modern new fridge with various sizes available are 150 quid, a crappy 12 volt one is 600 ish upwards for a good make. Mains tellys in all sizes etc etc readily available. Having ccd, been on shore lines etc etc I wouldnt ever go back to just a 12 volt system. However it needs to be good stuff such as mastervolt, I also had an electrolux fitted to the propulsion engine. Living on a boat doesnt any longer need to be like cave dwelling. The availability of mains full time is a great asset full time, had I been a hobby boater I may well have thought otherwise? The actual combined use on mains was approx 20 percent more than all 12 volt, been there, done that. I am not alone thinking this way, others are now mains, the stuff has improved no end of recent years. Also availability and range make it worth the small extra cost in charging etc. What did you find was the expense you wish to avoid when your boat was fully mains?

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Crewcut said:

 

I appreciate the clarification, wasn't aware that good quality inverters are as good as they (apparently) are. Only thing I'd disagree with here is I did say "if" the OP has 230v fridge & TV, I did not deduce that they had...

 

I would add that in an ideal world you would have specifies a 12v COMPRESSOR fridge so the inexperienced do not get involved with absorption fridges running on 12V or Peltier units, both of which would use far more electricity that a quality inverter and a fridge.

[Crewcut]

21 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

All three of my last boats were fully mains. The last one had a couple of 12 volt fridges when I bought it but I sold them to forum members. A decent, modern inverter/combi uses about half an amp on standby so bugger all in the scheme of things. Modern mains fridges are  very much more frugal than they used to be, as is all mains stuff. A modern new fridge with various sizes available are 150 quid, a crappy 12 volt one is 600 ish upwards for a good make. Mains tellys in all sizes etc etc readily available. Having ccd, been on shore lines etc etc I wouldnt ever go back to just a 12 volt system. However it needs to be good stuff such as mastervolt, I also had an electrolux fitted to the propulsion engine. Living on a boat doesnt any longer need to be like cave dwelling. The availability of mains full time is a great asset full time, had I been a hobby boater I may well have thought otherwise? The actual combined use on mains was approx 20 percent more than all 12 volt, been there, done that. I am not alone thinking this way, others are now mains, the stuff has improved no end of recent years. Also availability and range make it worth the small extra cost in charging etc. What did you find was the expense you wish to avoid when your boat was fully mains?

 

All fair enough but to say that my post was entirely incorrect is still utter bollocks...

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I would add that in an ideal world you would have specifies a 12v COMPRESSOR fridge so the inexperienced do not get involved with absorption fridges running on 12V or Peltier units, both of which would use far more electricity that a quality inverter and a fridge.

 

Absolutely right and I know this, my bad...

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Crewcut said:

 

All fair enough but to say that my post was entirely incorrect is still utter bollocks...

 

 

You are correct - at least bollocks have their uses.

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

What did you find was the expense you wish to avoid when your boat was fully mains?

 

For people who are loaded and can afford Mastervolt, Travel Power, top quality fridges etc (as you suggest) might well work. I'd imagine the decent Mastervolt inverter charger, a Travel Power and top top of the range fridge freezer you mention would set anyone back the fat end of ten grand.

 

Budget stuff that normal people can afford is a different kettle of fish in my experience. My cheapo Sunshine Solar inverter (even the 2.5kW one) does not have the grunt to start my cheapo budget 240Vac fridge. Waste of money, both or them for use on. boat.

 

 

I actually repaired my busted 12v fridge and put it back in. Far cheaper than a Mastervolt and a posh fridge

 

 

[mrsmelly]

35 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

For people who are loaded and can afford Mastervolt, Travel Power, top quality fridges etc (as you suggest) might well work. I'd imagine the decent Mastervolt inverter charger, a Travel Power and top top of the range fridge freezer you mention would set anyone back the fat end of ten grand.

 

Budget stuff that normal people can afford is a different kettle of fish in my experience. My cheapo Sunshine Solar inverter (even the 2.5kW one) does not have the grunt to start my cheapo budget 240Vac fridge. Waste of money, both or them for use on. boat.

 

 

I actually repaired my busted 12v fridge and put it back in. Far cheaper than a Mastervolt and a posh fridge

 

 

You can afford quality gear, your just a tight sod 

[cheesegas]

It's a good idea to get an marine sparky (not a house sparky, most of them don't know 12v systems!) to have a look around the boat and tell you what does what. Most boats more than a few years old will have been modified by each owner, resulting in wiring changes, mystery switches, things not being hooked up like you'd expect and so on. For example, your 1-2-both switch may be hooked up backwards to convention...

 

For example, my boat passed a BSS shortly after I bought it in unchanged form; electrics were a mess and I hadn't been through them other than to use it as a bargaining tool...but I took a chance to see if it would pass. It did. The 1-2-both switch actually did nothing at all, the domestic 12v fuseboard was hooked directly to the starter battery with a wire wound around the clamp, and there was a teeny tiny relay which connected the leisure and starter with an unlabelled switch. Without knowing all that, it's a shot in the dark trying to give advice to someone!

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

It's a good idea to get an marine sparky (not a house sparky, most of them don't know 12v systems!) to have a look around the boat and tell you what does what. Most boats more than a few years old will have been modified by each owner, resulting in wiring changes, mystery switches, things not being hooked up like you'd expect and so on. For example, your 1-2-both switch may be hooked up backwards to convention...

 

For example, my boat passed a BSS shortly after I bought it in unchanged form; electrics were a mess and I hadn't been through them other than to use it as a bargaining tool...but I took a chance to see if it would pass. It did. The 1-2-both switch actually did nothing at all, the domestic 12v fuseboard was hooked directly to the starter battery with a wire wound around the clamp, and there was a teeny tiny relay which connected the leisure and starter with an unlabelled switch. Without knowing all that, it's a shot in the dark trying to give advice to someone!

 

Amen to all that.

 

To the OP, where is the boat, if it is not London you may find a local member will be happy to come and go through the electrics with you.

[YSA]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Amen to all that.

 

To the OP, where is the boat, if it is not London you may find a local member will be happy to come and go through the electrics with you.

 

 

2 hours ago, cheesegas said:

It's a good idea to get an marine sparky (not a house sparky, most of them don't know 12v systems!) to have a look around the boat and tell you what does what. Most boats more than a few years old will have been modified by each owner, resulting in wiring changes, mystery switches, things not being hooked up like you'd expect and so on. For example, your 1-2-both switch may be hooked up backwards to convention...

 

For example, my boat passed a BSS shortly after I bought it in unchanged form; electrics were a mess and I hadn't been through them other than to use it as a bargaining tool...but I took a chance to see if it would pass. It did. The 1-2-both switch actually did nothing at all, the domestic 12v fuseboard was hooked directly to the starter battery with a wire wound around the clamp, and there was a teeny tiny relay which connected the leisure and starter with an unlabelled switch. Without knowing all that, it's a shot in the dark trying to give advice to someone!

 

I’m going to get someone to come and have a look - I don’t want to take a chance and end up making things worse!

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Amen to all that.

 

To the OP, where is the boat, if it is not London you may find a local member will be happy to come and go through the electrics with you.

 

I am in London 🙁

 

Any recommendations for a marine electrician here much appreciated though 

[cheesegas]

3 minutes ago, YSA said:

recommendations for a marine electrician here much appreciated though 

Whereabouts are you in London? I’m not there at the moment but I commute through occasionally, mostly to jobs in East London though. 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, YSA said:

I am in London 🙁

 

Any recommendations for a marine electrician here much appreciated though 

 

You will struggle - many / most boat repairers avoid London due to the high cost of getting into the city, difficulty in parking and having to carry a tool box 'miles' down the towpath.

London is a place avoided by most boaters - it is a different world.

 

Do you do Facebook ?

 

Try 'London Boaters' - they maybe able to suggest someone

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[YSA]

6 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Whereabouts are you in London? I’m not there at the moment but I commute through occasionally, mostly to jobs in East London though. 

 

Im in Enfield at the moment - not too far from picketts lock 

[cheesegas]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You will struggle - many / most boat repairers avoid London due to the high cost of getting into the city, difficulty in parking and having to carry a tool box 'miles' down the towpath.

London is a place avoided by most boaters - it is a different world.

London isn't for everyone, but it certainly isn't the hell-hole most people on here make it out to be... I enjoy the contrast of the upper Stort or the GU around Stoke Hammond to the hustle and bustle of Clapton, or the community around Kensal. And then the quiet industrial bits of Brentford before getting onto the Thames... A bit of everything makes it fun, that's why a moving house is fun! As someone who's part of a certain engineers group on Facebook, I can tell you that there's no shortage of engineers willing to travel and park in awkward places, it's just the sheer number of broken boats needing attention. Average waiting list to have someone out is around 8 weeks at the moment.

 

 

3 minutes ago, YSA said:

Im in Enfield at the moment - not too far from picketts lock 

I'll PM you.