Diesel powered range or LOTS of solar panels

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Boat-in-progress said:

......... but my dad is an electrician so that’s his domain. 

 

Domestic electrics ?

 

If it is any help, when you are ready I can send you a copy of the boat wiring regs for both 'low voltage' (12v DC) and the 'high voltage' (230v AC), there are a lot of differences between domestic and marine, and a lot of 'unlearning' to do.

 

Anyway - the offer is there.

[Tony Brooks]

47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

An auto electrician is getting closer to a boat-electrician but there are still big differences - eg on a car you can use the body as the 'return' so are only using single-wiring, on a boat this is absolutely 'verboten', you need both the positive and negative taken back to the battery / busbar.

 

 

Many I have met also have not grasped the problem with volt drop over long cable runs. They probably know the science but rarely, if ever, have had to use it in the vehicle world. As long as the OP takes that and the need for insulated return wiring, he is far better equipped than many, including some "professional" boat fiitters.

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Many I have met also have not grasped the problem with volt drop over long cable runs.

 

Yes the way cable suppliers specify cable as being 'good for' "X" Amps, leads many installers astray. The 'good for' figure often quoted is (AIUI) the max current the cable can safely carry without overheating. The volt drop along a long length of it can still be more than enough to prevent a voltage-sensitive appliance e.g. a 12v fridge from working. 

 

In addition I often think the cost of correctly sized cable also discourages proper thinking on the matter. Does the installer of this apocryphal fridge spend say £14 on cable that the drum says is good for 12A, or £130 say, on the correctly calculated stuff?

 

 

[Boat-in-progress]

26 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Many I have met also have not grasped the problem with volt drop over long cable runs. They probably know the science but rarely, if ever, have had to use it in the vehicle world. As long as the OP takes that and the need for insulated return wiring, he is far better equipped than many, including some "professional" boat fiitters.

 

Thanks Tony, volt drop has to be considered and schematics will be drawn up in advance. And yes. It isn’t generally  a consideration in the light vehicle world. 
 

He - or She in this case is intending to be fully informed and organised. 🤗

[Tony Brooks]

Just a pointer - compressor 12V fridges have a horrendous start up surge current, so if you intend to use one, please use the cable size recommended by the compressor maker. That is basically 1 sq mm CCSA for each metre run between battery and fridge, use the same for the return. FWIW I had a case of an advertised "professional" inland wiring harness maker who got the fridge cable wrong because they thought their calculations trumped the compressor manufacturer.

[Tony1]

3 hours ago, Boat-in-progress said:

 

Hi Tony1 

 

- Hotbox Composter 

I actually do have a Hotbox composter (in my garden) albeit this is not where I will be adding the waste to. That will be a separate ‘cold’ composter on a different patch of land. In regard to the hotbox - from my experience their claim of creating compost in 90 days is only accurate in the height of the summer and if it is filled with a lot of green/brown waste every week. If in the sun, it does start to smell, it leaches water from the base - which is collected for fertiliser and it’s incredibly messy to empty - but nothing that a pre-laid sheet can’t handle. The compost I have ‘made’ however is lovely stuff! Full of worms - which shows it’s not always hot. 
 

I would be great for marinas to start including composting. In the end they have a product they can sell on. 
 

-Batteries 

This makes sense. I will definitely look into this more

 

-Water level meter 

For sure! That’s a great call. 

 

Well thanks very much for that insight into the hotbox usage. Its a bit of a blow tbh- I foolishly hadn't realised that they would be very messy to empty, and I dont like the sound of the smell during sunny weather. My plan was to stick it in the cratch, which has a pram style cover with windows, and so its like a greenhouse. And the idea of it smelling the whole time does not appeal at all. 

 

Looks like I'll have to get a pump out installed. Its not even the cost of it really, so much as the vital storage space under the bed that I'll have to lose. 

 

[GUMPY]

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Looks like I'll have to get a pump out installed. Its not even the cost of it really, so much as the vital storage space under the bed that I'll have to lose. 

You could get a cassette 😱😉

After all you know it will fit and not take up anymore space.

 

My spare cassette is working well thank you, hope the collar is as well😎

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You could get a cassette 😱😉

After all you know it will fit and not take up anymore space.

 

My spare cassette is working well thank you, hope the collar is as well😎

 

A cassette would certainly be less "invasive", in terms of installation, but what I really want is a solution that doesnt mean a trip to the elsan every 4 days, however that works out. 

A system that required emptying every 10-14 days would be great, as that would coincide with water refill and rubbish disposal. 

I did wonder about using a cassette only for No 2 activities (making elsan trips less frequent), and continuing to use a separate receptacle for No1 activities. But I can anticipate having real difficulty emptying a cassette that is mostly semi solid waste. 

And I certainly dont want to be the villain who causes a blockage in the elsan. 

So at the moment, a pump out looks like the least unpleasant option. 

 

 

[Boat-in-progress]

13 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

A cassette would certainly be less "invasive", in terms of installation, but what I really want is a solution that doesnt mean a trip to the elsan every 4 days, however that works out. 

A system that required emptying every 10-14 days would be great, as that would coincide with water refill and rubbish disposal. 

I did wonder about using a cassette only for No 2 activities (making elsan trips less frequent), and continuing to use a separate receptacle for No1 activities. But I can anticipate having real difficulty emptying a cassette that is mostly semi solid waste. 

And I certainly dont want to be the villain who causes a blockage in the elsan. 

So at the moment, a pump out looks like the least unpleasant option. 

 

 

Sorry Tony1 I didn’t mean to put you off! 
 

I may have another option for you to look into…. What about a worm composter? They munch on food waste, old news paper cardboard even dog and human poop. You could build one into the stern to use as seating! I don’t know if heat would be an issue in this case - especially with a pram cover. It may even be more efficient for the amount of waste you will produce? Assuming you don’t have a full roof of ‘garden’

 

Just a thought…….. will I get accused of ‘reinventing the wheel again’? 

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, Boat-in-progress said:

Sorry Tony1 I didn’t mean to put you off! 
 

I may have another option for you to look into…. What about a worm composter? They munch on food waste, old news paper cardboard even dog and human poop. You could build one into the stern to use as seating! I don’t know if heat would be an issue in this case - especially with a pram cover. It may even be more efficient for the amount of waste you will produce? Assuming you don’t have a full roof of ‘garden’

 

Just a thought…….. will I get accused of ‘reinventing the wheel again’? 

 

I'm really glad I got an insight into the hotbox whilst I still have time to rethink! 

The stern is tricky because my weed hatch access board is across the stern, so I cant block that off. I guess I could bend over and get in there via the engine bay...

 

I think in the short term I'll probably get a cheap/basic cassette loo, and see if some sort of inspiration strikes...

I dread the idea of being totally in thrall to a pump out tank, and having those occasions where you turn up somewhere with a totally full tank, and find the pump out machine is broken. But that said, there are lots and lots of users, and they clearly dont let these unusual scenarios play on their minds!

 

I would bet there are lots of users of separating toilets who will be postponing the decision and carrying on using the bins for a while after the new rule is in place.

After all, without physically checking every black bag that goes in, how would CRT enforce the rule? But I'd rather not break it anyway. 

 

[tree monkey]

Whatever composting process you use will produce liquid waste, all those worms need to wee after all.

There are some desiccating bog users who seem to get some sort of compost/breakdown process without this, or at least I've never seen it discussed, but it takes effort and a fair amount of dedication.

Whatever the end product it still need to be disposed of in some appropriate way

[Boat-in-progress]

16 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I'm really glad I got an insight into the hotbox whilst I still have time to rethink! 

The stern is tricky because my weed hatch access board is across the stern, so I cant block that off. I guess I could bend over and get in there via the engine bay...

 

I think in the short term I'll probably get a cheap/basic cassette loo, and see if some sort of inspiration strikes...

I dread the idea of being totally in thrall to a pump out tank, and having those occasions where you turn up somewhere with a totally full tank, and find the pump out machine is broken. But that said, there are lots and lots of users, and they clearly dont let these unusual scenarios play on their minds!

 

I would bet there are lots of users of separating toilets who will be postponing the decision and carrying on using the bins for a while after the new rule is in place.

After all, without physically checking every black bag that goes in, how would CRT enforce the rule? But I'd rather not break it anyway. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Whatever composting process you use will produce liquid waste, all those worms need to wee after all.

There are some desiccating bog users who seem to get some sort of compost/breakdown process without this, or at least I've never seen it discussed, but it takes effort and a fair amount of dedication.

Whatever the end product it still need to be disposed of in some appropriate way

This is true tree monkey - After a quick google search worms are being used for this specific task…. And yes a properly ‘used’ compost toilet is supposed to start the process. 

This article looks has a link to worms as an alternative to a compost bin. 

https://www.giynow.com/2018/02/12/composting-toilets-how-they-work/

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

after all, without physically checking every black bag that goes in ...................

 

When biffa tip out the wheely bin into the truck, and then tip the truck at the sorting site the operators have to rip open the bags as they go along the conveyor belt to sort out the good stuff from the general waste. The operators complain when they get covered in Carp, Biffa complain to C&RT, C&RT remove all bins (which they have no legal requirement to provide), and 30,000 boaters no longer have anywhere to dispose of their rubbish because a couple of hundred selfish, ignorant boaters cannot be bothered to dispose of their waste correctly and legally.

 

Why do you think that Marinas are banning boats with composting toilets ?

It is not worth the agro and fines for people bagging and binning - easier and cheaper to take a loss on mooring income.

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

When biffa tip out the wheely bin into the truck, and then tip the truck at the sorting site the operators have to rip open the bags as they go along the conveyor belt to sort out the good stuff from the general waste. The operators complain when they get covered in Carp, Biffa complain to C&RT, C&RT remove all bins (which they have no legal requirement to provide), and 30,000 boaters no longer have anywhere to dispose of their rubbish because a couple of hundred selfish, ignorant boaters cannot be bothered to dispose of their waste correctly and legally.

 

Why do you think that Marinas are banning boats with composting toilets ?

It is not worth the agro and fines for people bagging and binning - easier and cheaper to take a loss on mooring income.

 

Indeed, and I hope all the separating toilet users will make their decision and get sorted asap. 

I expect there will be quite a rush on new cassette and pump out toilets in the next 2 months.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Indeed, and I hope all the separating toilet users will make their decision and get sorted asap. 

I expect there will be quite a rush on new cassette and pump out toilets in the next 2 months.

 

 

 

When the shelves will be empty because of :

 

Choose any one :

 

Lorry driver shortage

Brexit

Fuel shortages

No plastics being manufactured / no oil produced

Insulation protesters glued to the factory gates

Covid

Flu

Covid & Flu

Devaluation of the pound

All tooling has to be remade from metric dimensions to imperial dimensions.

[Tony1]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

When the shelves will be empty because of :

 

Choose any one :

 

Lorry driver shortage

Brexit

Fuel shortages

No plastics being manufactured / no oil produced

Insulation protesters glued to the factory gates

Covid

Flu

Covid & Flu

Devaluation of the pound

All tooling has to be remade from metric dimensions to imperial dimensions.

 

There are loads for sale on ebay, and lots that you can get via click and collect, eg this little beauty: 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224089926616?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3Df9a5f8441bc84e628882adb0142928da%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D173581554884%26itm%3D224089926616%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWithPLXWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A224089926616f9a5f8441bc84e628882adb0142928da|enc%3AAQAGAAACEEVkMa5zf4NURfO%2FO%2Byq2mbhy6%2FidHDW%2BHgoxM8nu%2Blpxp5VnJ9bWXsAIkqgAuKl1ZO41WI0F%2BC5UBKvcaoUmLlapBOKfYFYPfAj%2BbPS%2BeSSfLhQFLWXSh%2FWN%2Fxzprjvkl1T%2FSgwPtXLEknT7iqwm4ovr1k8yeNpWLN1874PTxqOAZsKmxLAgD5AiTRTpXf8Ml9RQZdBLQRd1w7MxETTgn6%2Fd3LNZ%2BfLiU8vcapKusP8mSa0NI1qame4xyw9GOydYbVZy8yQHHIzsJhJ9JuDURSoNHKd1AsbGYxVsxWHTut79vn4REntBCNPZshQbLAB%2Frv0uu48nKs%2BUdxb0REm89aKgvVIJQZHqN5Ac5AnNCkT2ebFqYrTbnN7L6nzletmUD1TdGenVUJpCAHMPL2gY1fEAhWf04gOfypxJvoftDYsR9Xd2MZTuRWj4ydKrmse3xpiVAIuVSnzL6%2BghQNiYllz%2B5bAM1RlzpGJa1%2Fjfjn2SezidMPU%2FOHPX8Mz3mTkg0OCR80mQeQyeA51ZZi8PkUhdI%2BGlQ%2B6lqQPFqfx53PVmUgh3lfeuv3XYHfnWSBSNSHEwb%2FUwnzB1tix6c88OloxkoKCimIfrTF%2BRpwPNO8x0a8gwMvYtTu8x8rwuQgHJBAHdUr8TgYoQfAiQi6myJYJuPBpiv39X7JuHHP0bXo5%2BIPcCDu6z8ej3hWl%2FY7NaA%3D%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

 

I just dont know if I can give up the space needed for a pump out tank, and not sure if I want the extra expense and hassle of the install- some of the kits are well over a grand. 

 

A mere £65 for this marvellous example of a luxurious modern dunny, with a princely 21 litre waste volume, and I'm sorted in two days. What more could the discerning toilet user want?   Bish bosh, I'm almost tempted to say 

 

ETA- I'd be grateful for any recommendations from the "cassetteers" amongst us, regarding good/reputable models 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Tony1

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

ETA- I'd be grateful for any recommendations from the "cassetteers" amongst us, regarding good/reputable models

The C200 you took out was one of the best😟

[Ex Brummie]

Going back to your cooking choice, the Heritage unit has a pressure jet burner, and with the right controls and plumbing to control the operations, you can get cooking and/or hot water separately. Whilst the unit will get warm  it will not be much warmer than a domestic gas oven.

[Tony1]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

The C200 you took out was one of the best😟

 

Sadly I'd left my time machine in the house, and had no idea that CRT were going to stop the use of separating toilets a year later. 

The ones I feel sorry for are those who've paid £1000 and more for the natures head and similar models- thats going to be a very unwelcome loss. 

 

Tbh I dont want a fancy unit, just a cheap and simple model to see if I can get on with them.

It may be I'll still go for a pumpout in the end.