Engine Room and Boatmans Cabin

[Gibbo]

I just measured my engine room.........

 

9'4"

 

Most would say a complete waste of space. It has (obviously) the engine in it, but it also has a washing machine, tumble dryer, all the electrical distribution, 2 inverters, 2 battery chargers etc, ropes, mop and bucket, water cans etc That would all take up space somewhere else anyway.

 

And I like it. But it does seem a waste of space.

 

Gibbo

[DHutch]

We have a sort of modern take on a 'trad layout'.

- In so much as we have a totally modern (well late 70's) style back cabin, followed by the engine and coal bunker, which you walk though to get to the galley, bathroom, front cabin.

 

And it works quite well really.

- In a way the back cabin is 'cut off' from the rest of the boat by the engine room, even though you can walk though it.

- But actaully thats nice, adds privacy if those it it require, and makes ideal for storage when theres just two or three.

 

The engine room is 10ft, plus 4ft for coal. As well as 6ft of wheel house, and a back deck.

- So in a 58ft boat, suddenly you have as much cabin space as a 40ft cruser stearned boat.

 

But the engine, in our case, is largly the sole point of the boat. Without it, i might not bother boating.]

 

 

 

Daniel

[SteveE]

I have also pondered this, my other half does not want an engine room and considers it too intrusive on the living space, I made the mistake of taking her into hire boat 'Holly' whilst it was between hirers, it was tied up and idling at the time and the din inside the Boatman's cabin was horrific. I think if you want an engine room then you definitely need to go for a very slow running engine with as few cylinders as possible.

 

 

We hired Holly 4 years ago and had a lovely trip to Ellesmere Port and back. We hired on Saturday and it took us 'til Thursday to work out how to get a decent night's sleep. I was too long for the cross bed and burns were sustained on the stove in the back cabin sleeping lengthways. All the gear hung up to dry in the engine room smelled of diesel and the walkway past the engine could be a challenge in the dark after one or two........

Our own old boat has the engine room at the back of the boat down the steps from the counter and this works very well, with little noise or fume in the living area and a large storage area for the items mentioned in the post above. The length of this seems to be little more than the huge 'patio' area seen on many cruiser sterns with the engine underneath.

SteveE

[onthecut]

Hi all.

 

Fascinating thread. Looking at the issue of Hudson's fit outs, I'm afraid I'm a bit nonplussed about having to first crouch through the engine room and then literally crawl out of the back cabin, particularly when it's a pretend proper engine rather than a real one. (yes, I'm biased -- I like proper engines !) In my humble LB shell, I've managed an engine room you can stand up in, plus a standalone genset, inverter, day tank, batteries etc. etc. The back cabin isn't traditional, but does have well over five and a half foot headroom, bed, stove, sink and so forth and is a very usable space. Particularly so if you have perhaps two generations sharing the boat and each wants some privacy.

Fairly obviously, the motive power bit of the boat takes up the same amount of space wherever you put it and in a trad it's a straight trade off of length versus height. With a semi, or cruiser stern, then yes, under the deck is a pretty obvious spot if it's a modern, compact engine. The set ups that make me wince are those where a small engine has been fitted in the tightest possible space and the rest of the boat in that area then built around it, with virtually no regard for standard servicing and absolutely none for the day when you need to get the box or engine out completely.

Oh well --- rant over.

 

Mike.

[Chertsey]

Advantages to back cabin:

1. It's excellent for hiding away in (when tied up). Everyone needs a bit of privacy and/or peace and quiet sometimes.

2. Warrior's gets used as a study. It's fantastic for that. 240 socket in the table cupboard for the laptop and phone chargers(sorry traditionalists, I feel your pain), all packed away out of sight in a second.

3. When there's no one sleeping in there, I use the bed to store clothes in.

4. It's not a waste of space, it's the most efficient use of space on the entire boat. Have a back cabin and you'll hardly need any other storage (especially if no one sleeps in there).

5. It's a working buffer zone between the wet, muddy outdoors and the glitzy saloon. Good for leaving boots, coats (when not drying in the engine room), etc etc

6. It is a thing of beauty and a marvel of organisation that is a joy in itself.

[dacaB]

It's excellent for hiding away in (when tied up).

 

Ahhhhh now I see what you mean

[Chertsey]

Ahhhhh now I see what you mean

 

Perhaps I'd better rephrase that ... when the boat is tied up.

Phew.

[DHutch]

Perhaps I'd better rephrase that ... when the boat is tied up.

Phew.

Yeah, i have to admit i honestly didnt think about you refering to the boat there.

[BarnBrian]

After the earlier posts I was convinced that the engine room and back cabin was not for me. Now after reading Gibbo's and Warrior Womans views I've changed my mind completely. I like the idea of having space to stow wet gear and all those other bits and pieces that don't seem to fit anywhere specific.

The next decision is the engine, Russel Newbury or Gardner I'm thinking at the moment.

Thanks for all the interesting replies. Wish I'd found this site before I had my Liverpool Boat built five years ago.

 

Brian

[Strads]

having found and read the thread... and not been tied up ----yet.

 

Boat mans cabin is a great porch. wardrobe study and spare bedroom!.. ditto engine room for servicing /maintaining the engine and checking the electrics and plumbing. plus space for tools / buckets / ironing board etc

 

engine wise - looked long and hard for a kelvin k2 or 3 but couldnt find the right boat - and one with a j3 looked like need some serious work so whilst we did consider, figured costs would equal the current route!

As with all "vintage/classic" engine types consider the obvious, condition / condition / age and how maintained etc, then select the one that looks like sound s like its had serious tlc, and have an expert agree... said the man with a r&n 3cyl... I'm off to get the brasso and beat the closures..

 

mind you its similar to the walk through bathroom or corridor and one or two loo's..... i know thread drift....but its friday

[Proper Job]

Our boats always had a back engine room (Trad style but the engine at the back).

 

What ever the amount of insulation you where always sat on top of an engine giving it what for (Petter PH2, 1800 BMC & and a Perkins MC42).

 

Between boats now but 'borrowed a friends 62' foot with a boatmans and engine room (Gardner LW2). Exhaust out through the roof (sound to die for) or could go in to 'silent running'. A clever device that switched the exhaust out through the side via a very efficent silencer. Close the engine room doors and hatches and you went along in virtiual silence!

 

Planning the new boat and currently rebuilding an Alsia Craig RFR4 to go in it own engine room. Slow running, minimal vibration, but like all vintage engines will need to be looked after. Going to have the silent running system to!

[Endeavour]

Exhaust out through the roof (sound to die for) or could go in to 'silent running'. A clever device that switched the exhaust out through the side via a very efficent silencer. Close the engine room doors and hatches and you went along in virtiual silence!

 

Can you describe how the system achieved the switch between the two exhaust outlets? I too have pondered something similar, but haven't found the right components yet.

[DHutch]

2inch three way quarter turn ball valve would proberbly do it.

- Simular to presedent who can or could switch the exahast on there engine to be 'chuffing' or 'condesing' as the choose.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Proper Job]

The exhaust comes out from the manifold and goes in to a 'T' junction. Each pipe run from the junction has a 1/4 turn disc valve fitted (you must make sure that it can take the temperature). Very simple, but not 'fool proof'. It is, potentially, possible to shut both valves (or have both valves open).

 

Daniels three way 1/4 turn valve would be 'fool proof' if you can find one that will take the temperature. Soot and 'goo' from the exhaust may gum it up unless it was frequently 'exercised'.

 

The roof exhaust goes in to an 'expansion' cyclinder and then out. The side exhaust goes through a 'hospital' silencer before exiting.

 

With all the engine room doors shut, running on the side exhaust, you go along in virtual silence. When you fancy a bit of rythm and a lung full of diesel smoke, switch to the roof system.

 

Its going to be fitted to the new boat cos I'm adicted to diesel smoke but I also like a bit of peace and quiet now and again!

[Eastern]

I love the sight & sound of a vintage engine! Its even better when its belongs to someone else 'cause there's no high purchase price, no high maintenance costs, and with the imminent demise of red diesel - no (less) high fuel costs.

 

But I must tip my hat to the fact that we all have different tastes and preferences. Long may it remain so.

[carlt]

I love the sight & sound of a vintage engine! Its even better when its belongs to someone else 'cause there's no high purchase price, no high maintenance costs, and with the imminent demise of red diesel - no (less) high fuel costs.

My slow revving AS3 is far more economical than any modern engine I've owned. The maintenance is far more straightforward than the modern engines so I can do it myself, no engineer to pay and parts are cheaper (if you know where to look).

 

And the purchase price (if you avoid the 'elite' brands) is comparable to a modern lump.

 

You're right about them sounding nicer, though.

[magpie patrick]

Baldock may not know this but, assuming his boat is the Baldock that was for sale at Saltford last year, I nearly bought it. What put me off was the solid bulkhead in front of the engine room as that would have made it almost impossible for elderly parents to join me at the back. That said Baldock, I'm still a little bit envious of you!

 

Thee points: Baldock has a "proper" as built cabin from working days: as a result although the prop shaft runs underneath it it has reasonable headroom in the back cabin (presumably it's deeper draught): other modern replicas had much less headroom and even my five foot six height had to stoop a little: Dad (6 foot) and Magpie Val (5-11) would have found these modern replica's a pain

 

Most trads with their engine in the back either make little use of the space or it's a rather large too cupboard: a traditional engine room would fulfil this function so it's not all lost space

 

Ripple has no engine room: result? One bed is now "the tool store". Wet steerers drip all over MY bedroom floor (And on the bedding! I definitley prefer my semi trad as I can get Magpie Val and parents etc in a social huddle at the back but I'd give a lot for a wet room/toolstore, and wouldn't mind being able to stand around the engine rather than hang upside down every time it needs attention

[saltysplash]

I love the sight & sound of a vintage engine! Its even better when its belongs to someone else 'cause there's no high purchase price, no high maintenance costs, and with the imminent demise of red diesel - no (less) high fuel costs.

 

But I must tip my hat to the fact that we all have different tastes and preferences. Long may it remain so.

 

 

Strange point of view. My Gardner 4L3 75hp circ 1945 ticks over at 300 revs and cruises at 750 revs....how many modern diesels do that, as for high maintainance costs......i change the oil once a year and replace the filters. Grease the relevent grease points and she runs and runs and has done for the last 60 odd years.

[Proper Job]

Each to his own I say.

 

We cant all have the old un's. There aint enough to go around.

 

I'm not sure about the 'high purchase price, high maintenance costs and high fuel costs' bit though.

 

Admitantly, if you are looking for one of the really popular vintage engines (Kelvin, JP) it can be pricey. But, invest in a good one and it should out last you.

 

That said, a modern compact diesel, hidden away at the stern is what a lot of people want. They turn the key in the morning and it runs. It gets serviced once a year and their happy. Lets face it, its what most of us want in a car.

 

My Ailsa Craig RFR4's (I've got two) cost me less than a grand (for the pair). Yes, there's a bit to do on them, but I recon I should have one up and running for less than £500 (plus a bit of blood sweat and tears).

 

Once fitted, it should need minimal maintenance (oil/filter changes - no more than your modern unit). As far as fuel costs, I'm expecting it to be a lot better than my previous high reving Perkins MC42. As for longevity - its fair to say that its built to last. And running at a very unstressed 600 - 800 rpm cruising speed, wear and tear will be low.

 

The down side is (and we're back to the engine room bit) its 70" long (33" is the gear box), 36" tall and wieghs 860 kg. Compact it isnt! Fitted in its own engine room its dead easy to maintain though.

[DHutch]

If i didnt already have a the steam thing going on, it would deffonatly have to be a big slow old engine. Or not be on the canal.

- Its just so nice to have it pulsing away at 600revs, on a whifter of diesal, with a whacking great prop, and a nice open engine room.

- Sometimes when i get a inch of time to not be doing something else, i just crouch on the floor beside emilyanne engine and watch it. (honestly, i really do!)

 

But there are always disadvantages.

- The engineroom is 10ft long, plus 4ft for coal. Then the aft cabin (5ft8) is still mainly just tool storage. And the wheelhouse a back deck...

 

 

 

Daniel

[hector1988]

Just about to start the next boat, we are having a trad engine Petter PH2W 7 hours on a gallon of cooking oil/red etc.

Will be having a Back cabin but with a longways double, this will be 11' with 5' engine room.

This also gives us a side passage with full headroom almost to the back step. Premier stove and small

side seat opposite. Form the back doors you see the stove and drop down table which will also be a small wardrobe. All i need to do now is build it!.

Dave