Advice on refitting interior woodwork etc if anybody has any? :)

[Dolly P.]

Hey helpful Pals its me again! 

 

I'll give you a brief of where i'm at... 

1.Bought a beautiful boat.

2. Lived on Beautiful boat as is for about 8 months. 

3. Decided to start with the leaky windows... Removed windows.. cleaned up, painted, refit - Struggling with the sealant situation but dads got a masterplan in place so leaving him to it for the time being. 

4. Installed Calorifier (Had that Leak off pipe drama but all fitted and working now - Have hot water woop woop!) 

5. Window frames are all rotten - Part of the issue with resealing the windows is they wont screw in tightly enough to the rotten wood so i am building new ones with timber (redwood timber?)

6. Old rotten window frames are doubles up a the wall frames... Decided to rip walls down. 

7. Fertan & Red oxide over the rusted metal and put up with very wet, condensated walls. 

 

 

So... Here are my questions... 

 

1. Do i need to get those little triangle bits for the bottom corner of the windows? Previously they had just painted the bare metal white. My new window frames will just be squares so there will be the little gaps in the bottom corners if i do nothing...

 

2. Do i need to treat the new wood for the wall frames? I'll be using a Protection/Stain for the window frames as they're visible.. but wasn't sure about the wall frames behind the cladding? Its Timber, Redwood... Planed. 

 

3. What is CLS timber? 

 

4. Celetex or spray foam for insulation? Currently has a pathetic amount of earthwool type stuff dotted about the place but no where near enough to help with condensation or anything so we have decided its best to replace it all. 

 

 Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

 

 

[Dolly P.]

Also - Am i doing the forum thing correctly? or should i be writing this sort of stuff in the blog section? I'm not very tech savvy so i am sorry if i'm doing this totally wrong. 

[Tracy D'arth]

1   Yes you need to insulate and cover all the steel work. The curved triangles can be cut on a bandsaw.

 

2   Treat all hidden wood unless its hardwood, redwood is soft.  Stick your battens and bits to the steel with polyurethane cartridge glue, either the foaming 5 minute wood adhesive from Screwfix or PU18 which takes longer to set. Wedge it in place with laths across the boat sprung into place.

 

3   Canadian Lumber Standard, its not really special, just a minimum standard.

 

4   Kingspan insulation with foil both sides, easy to glue to the steel, good insulation. Use 25mm thick in 2 staggered joint close fitting layers if you can, taping all joins with aluminium tape. Leave no gaps, take your time measuring and fitting it tight edge to edge, the better it fits, the less condensation you will get.

Spray foam is a contractors job on a totally stripped shell.

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Dolly P. said:

Also - Am i doing the forum thing correctly? or should i be writing this sort of stuff in the blog section? I'm not very tech savvy so i am sorry if i'm doing this totally wrong. 

You are doing fine. CLS - CLS timber is created from woods such as kiln-dried fir, pine or spruce. During the manufacturing process, it is planed, treated and shaped with four smoothed surfaced sides and distinctive rounded (or radiused) edges.

 

Personally I would not use ordinary CLS timber behind the panelling. I would use treated timber to be at least a little bit more damp/rot resistant. If it can't be see ordinary treated sawn timber should be OK for behind the panels.

 

What's your budget for insulation. Celotex/Kingspan is more expensive than "self extinguishing" expanded polystyrene so you could afford thicker. As long as all board type insulation is cut to be a tight fit with no air gaps plus any joints sealed with aluminium adhesive tape it will be easier to deal with the spray foam.

[Tracy D'arth]

Buy a copy of the Narrow Boat Builder's Book published by Graham Booth, Waterways World Magazine. ISBN 1 87002 71 7.   Its a bible for boat fitting, a bit old now but there is nothing better in newer books.  All the questions you have asked so far on here are answered in this book.

[Dolly P.]

6 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

1   Yes you need to insulate and cover all the steel work. The curved triangles can be cut on a bandsaw.

 

2   Treat all hidden wood unless its hardwood, redwood is soft.  Stick your battens and bits to the steel with polyurethane cartridge glue, either the foaming 5 minute wood adhesive from Screwfix or PU18 which takes longer to set. Wedge it in place with laths across the boat sprung into place.

 

3   Canadian Lumber Standard, its not really special, just a minimum standard.

 

4   Kingspan insulation with foil both sides, easy to glue to the steel, good insulation. Use 25mm thick in 2 staggered joint close fitting layers if you can, taping all joins with aluminium tape. Leave no gaps, take your time measuring and fitting it tight edge to edge, the better it fits, the less condensation you will get.

Spray foam is a contractors job on a totally stripped shell.

 

 

 

Okay awesome, ill look into this kingspan but i think my dad can get Celetex for a bit cheaper so if Celetex is still good to use ill go with that. 

Any recommendation on the treatment for the wood? or will any treatment/stain do? I have a few tins of colours i didn't end up liking that i could use up? 

 

Thanks for the glue suggestions! was going to be my next question. 

 

[Dolly P.]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

You are doing fine. CLS - CLS timber is created from woods such as kiln-dried fir, pine or spruce. During the manufacturing process, it is planed, treated and shaped with four smoothed surfaced sides and distinctive rounded (or radiused) edges.

 

Personally I would not use ordinary CLS timber behind the panelling. I would use treated timber to be at least a little bit more damp/rot resistant. If it can't be see ordinary treated sawn timber should be OK for behind the panels.

 

What's your budget for insulation. Celotex/Kingspan is more expensive than "self extinguishing" expanded polystyrene so you could afford thicker. As long as all board type insulation is cut to be a tight fit with no air gaps plus any joints sealed with aluminium adhesive tape it will be easier to deal with the spray foam.

Ah, see i was going to go with the treated sawn 25mm x 38mm, for exactly those reasons! But i had to bulk up my order for the window frames so ended up ordering 2 batons of the planed stuff. Ill probably mix and match if the size difference isn't too big after being planed. The Whole "nominal" size thing baffled me for a while but i think i get it now. I don't have a fixed budget as such... I'm in no rush, But my Dad can sort me out with some Celotex a bit cheaper than the Kingspan i think... The Left hand Gunnel has been spray foamed by the previous owners and it looks awful, all bulging out the edges ? so that put me off the foam idea a bit. 

 

I also want to make her easy to work on... That's why i want to build seperate window frames, so if ever a leak in the future, it can be easily rectified without ripping the walls down.  I'll look into this tape! didn't know it existed so thank you xx 

[Tracy D'arth]

10 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

Okay awesome, ill look into this kingspan but i think my dad can get Celetex for a bit cheaper so if Celetex is still good to use ill go with that. 

Any recommendation on the treatment for the wood? or will any treatment/stain do? I have a few tins of colours i didn't end up liking that i could use up? 

 

Thanks for the glue suggestions! was going to be my next question. 

 

Never found any better or faster than this          https://www.screwfix.com/p/evo-stik-polyurethane-wood-adhesive-310ml/40778

 

Sticks to anything, foams a little so uneven surfaces are no problem. 

 

Tape.   https://www.screwfix.com/p/diall-aluminium-foil-tape-silver-45m-x-75mm/4415v

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[Dolly P.]

11 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Buy a copy of the Narrow Boat Builder's Book published by Graham Booth, Waterways World Magazine. ISBN 1 87002 71 7.   Its a bible for boat fitting, a bit old now but there is nothing better in newer books.  All the questions you have asked so far on here are answered in this book.

Just ordered it  Thank you x

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Never found any better or faster than this          https://www.screwfix.com/p/evo-stik-polyurethane-wood-adhesive-310ml/40778

 

Sticks to anything, foams a little so uneven surfaces are no problem. 

All good on damp surfaces? That seems to be my current problem, Waiting for the walls to dry out enough to actually do anything. 

[dor]

Refit the windows with proper window tape not silicone. 

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Dolly P. said:

Just ordered it  Thank you x

All good on damp surfaces? That seems to be my current problem, Waiting for the walls to dry out enough to actually do anything. 

Certainly, in fact dampening the surface improves sticktion and speeds set, its advised!

[Dolly P.]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

Certainly, in fact dampening the surface improves sticktion and speeds set, its advised!

Amazing xxxxx Thank you! 

[Tracy D'arth]

Just now, dor said:

Refit the windows with proper window tape not silicone. 

Tap the steel (thread with  a tap) and use stainless machine screws, don't rely on wood screws into the interior battens.    Neoprene rubber tape makes them waterproof and easy to remove for repaints. 

[Dolly P.]

1 minute ago, dor said:

Refit the windows with proper window tape not silicone. 

Yes! Well, Sort of. the plan. 

We don't want to squirt silicone all over the place so my Daddy dearest is moulding dried silicone strips in the same shape as the window. then using a thin line of silicone to the window, so they can be removed without all of the gunk etc. But out of interest, The window tape, how do you deal with the rounded corners? 

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Tap the steel (thread with  a tap) and use stainless machine screws, don't rely on wood screws into the interior battens.    Neoprene rubber tape makes them waterproof and easy to remove for repaints. 

Tap the steel? But its only about 3mm thick? 

[dor]

1 minute ago, Dolly P. said:

Yes! Well, Sort of. the plan. 

We don't want to squirt silicone all over the place so my Daddy dearest is moulding dried silicone strips in the same shape as the window. then using a thin line of silicone to the window, so they can be removed without all of the gunk etc. But out of interest, The window tape, how do you deal with the rounded corners? 

It is flexible enough to follow the curve.

[Dolly P.]

Just now, dor said:

It is flexible enough to follow the curve.

Do you have a link? The stuff i tried before was not flexible at all! Had a full blown tantrum with it haha. 

[Tracy D'arth]

8 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

Yes! Well, Sort of. the plan. 

We don't want to squirt silicone all over the place so my Daddy dearest is moulding dried silicone strips in the same shape as the window. then using a thin line of silicone to the window, so they can be removed without all of the gunk etc. But out of interest, The window tape, how do you deal with the rounded corners? 

Tap the steel? But its only about 3mm thick? 

Neoprene tape will go round the corners, start in the middle of one side, go all around and overlap the ends 5mm.

 

3mm steel will tap easily with 4mm or 5mm screws depending on how big the holes are. 3mm thick will give you 2 full threads, plenty for a good bite. But I bet its 4mm.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[Dolly P.]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

Neoprene tape will go round the corners, start in the middle of one side, go all around and overlap the ends 5mm.

 

3mm steel will tap easily with 4mm or 5mm screws depending on how big the holes are. £mm will give you 2 full threads, plenty for a good bite.

I'll let my dad crack on with his project for now, he seems to be enjoying inventing new things, but on the smaller windows ill give the tape another go! thank you xx 

I've been looking for an excuse to buy a tap and dye set for a while now and this may just be it! 

Thank you! 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

Tap the steel? But its only about 3mm thick? 

3mm should be fine, depending. What diameter are the existing holes for the screws? If you can give us the existing hole size, we can advise the best size to tap. Tapping the steel and using stainless machine screws to fix the windows is the Gucci way of doing it. Wood screws in to the battens behind is the Primark way! If the holes in the steel are too big, then you are left with screws in to the wood.

Jen

[Dolly P.]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

3mm should be fine, depending. What diameter are the existing holes for the screws? If you can give us the existing hole size, we can advise the best size to tap. Tapping the steel and using stainless machine screws to fix the windows is the Gucci way of doing it. Wood screws in to the battens behind is the Primark way! If the holes in the steel are too big, then you are left with screws in to the wood.

Jen

I'll have a look tomorrow and let you know! At work at the minute   

[Kendorr]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neoprene-Self-Adhesive-Backed-EVA-Sponge-Tape-Strip-Roll-Sheet-Tape-Sticky-Seal/164397284151?hash=item2646d77b37:g:L7cAAOSwvQdfawmO

 

This is the neoprene tape for windows, 10mm wide by 3 mm thick should be good, if the sides of the windows are a bit out of shape, go up to 10 by 5mm

[Dolly P.]

Just now, Kendorr said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neoprene-Self-Adhesive-Backed-EVA-Sponge-Tape-Strip-Roll-Sheet-Tape-Sticky-Seal/164397284151?hash=item2646d77b37:g:L7cAAOSwvQdfawmO

 

This is the neoprene tape for windows, 10mm wide by 3 mm thick should be good, if the sides of the windows are a bit out of shape, go up to 10 by 5mm

I'ts actually the sides of the boat that seem to be a bit out of shape! haha. Thank you xx 

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

I'll let my dad crack on with his project for now, he seems to be enjoying inventing new things, but on the smaller windows ill give the tape another go! thank you xx 

I've been looking for an excuse to buy a tap and dye set for a while now and this may just be it! 

Thank you! 

Er, Die not dye!

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

3mm should be fine, depending. What diameter are the existing holes for the screws? If you can give us the existing hole size, we can advise the best size to tap. Tapping the steel and using stainless machine screws to fix the windows is the Gucci way of doing it. Wood screws in to the battens behind is the Primark way! If the holes in the steel are too big, then you are left with screws in to the wood.

Jen

If the holes are too big I would drill and tap fresh ones if at all possible, Neoprene tape will blank out the old ones.  Is there a fill strip in the aluminium window that covers the screws? If so you will not see the old holes after.

[Dolly P.]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

Er, Die not dye!

If the holes are too big I would drill and tap fresh ones if at all possible, Neoprene tape will blank out the old ones.  Is there a fill strip in the aluminium window that covers the screws? If so you will not see the old holes after.

? Oops! Send me back to school please - i'm broken 

 

The screws are visible on the windows... like the holes... If i drill new holes in the windows it will look strange and holey. But i think there are enough "good" holes left to still be able to pull it in tightly enough if i tap the holes like you say. Unfortunately, some have rusted to the edge too badly to rescue so ill be reliant on the wood/window sandwich effect on those. 

[Tony Brooks]

10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Er, Die not dye!

If the holes are too big I would drill and tap fresh ones if at all possible, Neoprene tape will blank out the old ones.  Is there a fill strip in the aluminium window that covers the screws? If so you will not see the old holes after.

i got the impression they are wooden window frames because she said she w s making square frames  but then Dolly might be talking about framing around the inside of the window aperture.