Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

Featured Posts

10 hours ago, zenataomm said:

The elephant in the room when it comes to Gov.UK's  Marine 2050 Plan is in the underlined word above. It can't be sustained.

When I worked in industry if were to put any proposal before a board with such a woolly, unmeasurable objective I'd have been ordered out of the room immediately, my esteem in tatters. 

Likewise any board or executive would be delighted to accept any objective using the word "expect" as they may ignore it and not fail.

"Well you expected and we did our best"

In many languages the words "Wait" "Hope" and "Expect" are the same word.  In fact in English they are often interchangeable.  

The dictionary says - Anticipate, hope for, look forward to, presume, suppose.  None of these verbs are what they call Action Verbs, they are suggestions only, or at best what is likely to be preferred.

(Definition of an Action Verb - Action verbs, also called dynamic verbs, express an action whether it be physical or mental. An action verb explains what the subject of the sentence is doing , has done, or must do. Expect, Hope and Wait are not dynamic, can not be demonstrated nor observed.) 

 

So, when it doesn't happen, the explanation will be.

"Although we signed up to this 5, 15 or 30 years ago, we always knew new technology and immense capital investment would be required. Sadly it was not forthcoming, however progress in different areas have assisted us to reduce blah blah blah anyway."

 

None of what I am saying reflects my personal preferences regarding Gov.UK's  Marine 2050 Plan.

However I fully expect, hope and wait for your assurance that I do eagerly await the opportunity to discard my 50 year old boat because of its treacherous diesel engine.

Having read the  thread but not contributed I must say its been a long time before sense and reality has prevailed by this post. Leccy engines will not be forced upon me or anyone on this forum, it just will not happen. Four years ago the gov said ice engines would not be allowed in new cars within twenty years...............only 16 to go, we shall see.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Leccy engines will not be forced upon me or anyone on this forum,

Absolutely, 100% correct.

 

You will have a choice of several different technologies to choose from - not just 'leccy'.

Anything that gives zero emission propulsion will be 'OK'.

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Absolutely, 100% correct.

 

You will have a choice of several different technologies to choose from - not just 'leccy'.

Anything that gives zero emission propulsion will be 'OK'.

Nope, it aint gonna happen in my lifetime, I will still be using good old reliable diesel that will still be available. It may effect some 12 year olds later in their lives but not me 👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Absolutely, 100% correct.

 

You will have a choice of several different technologies to choose from - not just 'leccy'.

Anything that gives zero emission propulsion will be 'OK'.

Well you won't even be able to use a horse then as it's not zero emission.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Nope, it aint gonna happen in my lifetime, I will still be using good old reliable diesel that will still be available. It may effect some 12 year olds later in their lives but not me 👍

Luddite.

 

you are past your sell-by date.

13 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Well you won't even be able to use a horse then as it's not zero emission.  

on that basis you won't be allowed to row, paddle or pull your boat unless you can devise a Bizzard-type scheme to contain all your effluents and recycle them for ever after.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

Luddite.

 

you are past your sell-by date.

on that basis you won't be allowed to row, paddle or pull your boat unless you can devise a Bizzard-type scheme to contain all your effluents and recycle them for ever after.

When the muppets that keep throwing silly electric motors for boats at me stop flying millions of miles all round the world using millions of tons of aviation fossil fuel, then I may take the few piddly gallons boaters use seriously. Peeing in the wind is all it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, zenataomm said:

The elephant in the room when it comes to Gov.UK's  Marine 2050 Plan is in the underlined word above. It can't be sustained.

When I worked in industry if were to put any proposal before a board with such a woolly, unmeasurable objective I'd have been ordered out of the room immediately, my esteem in tatters. 

Likewise any board or executive would be delighted to accept any objective using the word "expect" as they may ignore it and not fail.

"Well you expected and we did our best"

In many languages the words "Wait" "Hope" and "Expect" are the same word.  In fact in English they are often interchangeable.  

The dictionary says - Anticipate, hope for, look forward to, presume, suppose.  None of these verbs are what they call Action Verbs, they are suggestions only, or at best what is likely to be preferred.

(Definition of an Action Verb - Action verbs, also called dynamic verbs, express an action whether it be physical or mental. An action verb explains what the subject of the sentence is doing , has done, or must do. Expect, Hope and Wait are not dynamic, can not be demonstrated nor observed.) 

 

So, when it doesn't happen, the explanation will be.

"Although we signed up to this 5, 15 or 30 years ago, we always knew new technology and immense capital investment would be required. Sadly it was not forthcoming, however progress in different areas have assisted us to reduce blah blah blah anyway."

 

None of what I am saying reflects my personal preferences regarding Gov.UK's  Marine 2050 Plan.

However I fully expect, hope and wait for your assurance that I do eagerly await the opportunity to discard my 50 year old boat because of its treacherous diesel engine.

I am laughing because the world doesn't have a choice. Given in the scheme of things we don't count, 30 odd thousand of us boaters and people are already ordering electric boats and converting them. So the government will easily get this one through just do it and as its only new boats we will gradually change to electric. Plus the increasing cost of fossil fuels will help motivate us to change 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

When the muppets that keep throwing silly electric motors for boats at me stop flying millions of miles all round the world using millions of tons of aviation fossil fuel, then I may take the few piddly gallons boaters use seriously. Peeing in the wind is all it is.

They are coming - already Canada is building a fleet of Electric powered aircraft on domestic routes,

 

Piloted by Harbour Air CEO and founder Greg McDougall, the electric seaplane involved a six-passenger DHC-2 de Havilland Beaver with a 750-horsepower magni500 propulsion system. The Australian engineering firm MagniX responsible for the engine launched it at the Paris Air Show, and stated that the propulsion system aims to provide a clean and efficient way to power planes. 

HarbourAir aims to create an entire fleet by 2022, once all the safety and regulatory approvals are secured. The ePlanes have to be tested to confirm the reliability and safety and require certifications by regulators. 

As per a statement by transport minister Marc Garneau, this could set a new trend for more environment flying. According to MagniX CEO Roei Ganzarski, if short-haul flights are powered by battery, it could transform the way people commute. However, at present, the aircraft can fly about 160 km on lithium battery power. He further adds that though it’s not sufficient, it’s enough to start a revolution.

 

 

 

Now Rolls Royce is producing a world beating 'fastest electric plane'.

 

Rolls-Royce has completed testing of the ground-breaking technology that will power the world’s fastest all-electric plane. All the technology has been tested on a full-scale replica of the plane’s core, called an ‘ionBird’, including a 500hp electric powertrain powerful enough to set world speed records and a battery with enough energy to supply 250 homes.

The plane is part of a Rolls-Royce initiative called ACCEL, short for ‘Accelerating the Electrification of Flight’. Our ACCEL project team includes key partners YASA, the electric motor and controller manufacturer, and aviation start-up Electroflight. The team has been developing the technology while adhering to the UK Government’s social distancing and other health guidelines and the systems will soon be integrated into our ‘Spirit of Innovation’ plane. There is a long history of iron-birds in aviation for testing propulsion systems ahead of flight, but in this case we have named the test airframe ‘ionBird’, after the zero-emission energy source propelling the aircraft.

UK Business and Industry Minister Nadhim Zahawi said: “From trains to planes, our transport of the future will be powered by clean, electric sources - with companies like Rolls-Royce developing the tech to help meet our net zero ambitions. The completion of ground-testing for the government-backed ACCEL project is not only a step towards an exciting world record attempt, but a leap towards developing all-electric and hybrid-electric planes that one day could ferry large numbers of passengers around the world.”

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

When the muppets that keep throwing silly electric motors for boats at me stop flying millions of miles all round the world using millions of tons of aviation fossil fuel, then I may take the few piddly gallons boaters use seriously. Peeing in the wind is all it is.

They are developing hydrogen powered aircraft Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

They are developing hydrogen powered aircraft Tim

That sounds more feasable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

They are coming - already Canada is building a fleet of Electric powered aircraft on domestic routes,

 

Piloted by Harbour Air CEO and founder Greg McDougall, the electric seaplane involved a six-passenger DHC-2 de Havilland Beaver with a 750-horsepower magni500 propulsion system. The Australian engineering firm MagniX responsible for the engine launched it at the Paris Air Show, and stated that the propulsion system aims to provide a clean and efficient way to power planes. 

HarbourAir aims to create an entire fleet by 2022, once all the safety and regulatory approvals are secured. The ePlanes have to be tested to confirm the reliability and safety and require certifications by regulators. 

As per a statement by transport minister Marc Garneau, this could set a new trend for more environment flying. According to MagniX CEO Roei Ganzarski, if short-haul flights are powered by battery, it could transform the way people commute. However, at present, the aircraft can fly about 160 km on lithium battery power. He further adds that though it’s not sufficient, it’s enough to start a revolution.

 

 

 

Now Rolls Royce is producing a world beating 'fastest electric plane'.

 

Rolls-Royce has completed testing of the ground-breaking technology that will power the world’s fastest all-electric plane. All the technology has been tested on a full-scale replica of the plane’s core, called an ‘ionBird’, including a 500hp electric powertrain powerful enough to set world speed records and a battery with enough energy to supply 250 homes.

The plane is part of a Rolls-Royce initiative called ACCEL, short for ‘Accelerating the Electrification of Flight’. Our ACCEL project team includes key partners YASA, the electric motor and controller manufacturer, and aviation start-up Electroflight. The team has been developing the technology while adhering to the UK Government’s social distancing and other health guidelines and the systems will soon be integrated into our ‘Spirit of Innovation’ plane. There is a long history of iron-birds in aviation for testing propulsion systems ahead of flight, but in this case we have named the test airframe ‘ionBird’, after the zero-emission energy source propelling the aircraft.

UK Business and Industry Minister Nadhim Zahawi said: “From trains to planes, our transport of the future will be powered by clean, electric sources - with companies like Rolls-Royce developing the tech to help meet our net zero ambitions. The completion of ground-testing for the government-backed ACCEL project is not only a step towards an exciting world record attempt, but a leap towards developing all-electric and hybrid-electric planes that one day could ferry large numbers of passengers around the world.”

Does make me smile Alan, all they need to do is look at pictures of the USA turn of the century horses everywhere  a few  years later cars everywhere so no doubt stable and horse owners said it would never happen but it did

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

That sounds more feasable.

The plan is Tim that instead of wind turbines being paid to be turned off, they will use the excess electricity to produce clean hydrogen. Currently hydrogen is anything but clean as its made from fossil fuels in the main. I rejoice when I see wind turbines as they will save us in the end

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/09/2020 at 21:57, Timx said:

Why can’t crt install eleccy bollards at visitor moorings throughout the country, no need for generators or long idle engine running to charge batts, Payed for on line, or by contactless, just as so , pump out machines and cards should be contactless payment. CRT need an innovator of the future for boaters, not just joggers and cyclists etc, it is environmentally friendly, and eventually, will all be electric, grrrr

 

Its not a simple mater of fitting bollards . Bringing sufficient capacity of power supply to a location can be very expensive unless there is adequate power supply already on site . But I do look forward to seeing more electricity supplied for use by boaters. 

 

My request  to use the electricity bollards at West Stockwith  basin (as a visitor) was refused by C&RT.  I made it clear I expected to pay.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/09/2020 at 19:02, Alan de Enfield said:

 I'm 'pi$$ing in the wind every time I try and talk about the Marine 2050 Plan

That's probably because most people on this forum are unlikely to be buying a brand new boat anytime soon , or ever.    Existing diesel boats aren't  going to be banned .... are they?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, peterboat said:

The plan is Tim that instead of wind turbines being paid to be turned off, they will use the excess electricity to produce clean hydrogen. Currently hydrogen is anything but clean as its made from fossil fuels in the main. I rejoice when I see wind turbines as they will save us in the end

They should use the electricity from some of the wind turbines to power other turbines as fans and blow away some of the clouds that obscure our solar panels and cause flooding when they rain. A virtuous circle. 😁

  • Greenie 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

That's probably because most people on this forum are unlikely to be buying a brand new boat anytime soon , or ever.    Existing diesel boats aren't  going to be banned .... are they?

 

 

Yes - the intention is that from 2050 no boats can be used in UK waters unless they are zero emission,

 

Diesel boats will be banned & worthless.

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/09/2020 at 18:49, peterboat said:

............2025 when inland boats have to be carbon free .......

There is no such thing as a carbon free boat or anything else for that matter . 

 

But the electrically propelled boats sound interesting . I can imagine the canals being the ideal place to have electric propulsion due to the slow pace of travel.

But try that  on a river like the Trent and against the flow and the power demands must go up quite a lot ?  Do you know what range / running time is expected from the electric narrow boats being produced ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MartynG said:

That's probably because most people on this forum are unlikely to be buying a brand new boat anytime soon , or ever.    Existing diesel boats aren't  going to be banned .... are they?

 

 

Unlikely for the next few decades, but you never know. Seems to be a general principal that existing stuff is used till it breaks, or wears out when newer more eco friendly stuff is mandatory from new. There is usually some sort of compensation, or encouragement if this is to be speeded up by scrapping old stuff. No guarantees of course in any of this. The encouragement might be a tax on diesel that is so steep that you can't afford to cruise your diesel boat anywhere anyway.

A more likely situation is that you may not be able to cruise in to, or through some cities which might ban diesels for local air quality reasons, rather than global warming concerns. A particular problem if that is where your mooring is. Already happening in Amsterdam. I moor in Sheffield and they consulted recently on restricting/banning diesel taxis and delivery vans. Didn't cover boats, but in the future who knows. Sheffield has problems with air quality in places. A lot of it is in river valleys. Having the M1 doesn't help!

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that very few boaters will be converting their boats at 12K a go so will give up. Hire companies won't be converting either because very few people will hire a boat that will be very expensive and spend half their holiday charging it. The only electric hire boat I know of is on the short Mon & Brec. The popular cruising rings like the 4 counties, Stourport ring, Avon ring etc will no longer be doable in a week. With the demise of the hire fleets and reduction of private owners CaRT & EA will have a much reduced income so the canals and rivers will go into a state of dereliction. This is just my opinion but having had a chat recently with a hire company guy whilst re-fueling my nasty polluting diesel boat was of the same opinion.

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Unlikely for the next few decades, but you never know. Seems to be a general principal that existing stuff is used till it breaks, or wears out when newer more eco friendly stuff is mandatory from new. There is usually some sort of compensation, or encouragement if this is to be speeded up by scrapping old stuff. No guarantees of course in any of this. The encouragement might be a tax on diesel that is so steep that you can't afford to cruise your diesel boat anywhere anyway.

 

As I have shown earlier in the screen shots of the Governments documents, there is already a 'transition time' allowed.

 

From 2025 all new boats built must be capable of being modified to emission free 'engines'

From 2025 2035 all new boats built must be utilising emission free 'engines'

From 2050 all boats in UK waters must be emission free - any not, will be 'banned'.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As I have shown earlier in the screen shots of the Governments documents, there is already a 'transition time' allowed.

 

From 2025 all new boats built must be capable of being modified to emission free 'engines'

From 2025 all new boats built must be utilising emission free 'engines'

From 2050 all boats in UK waters must be emission free - any not, will be 'banned'.

Thats is when the back peddling will start, or probably about 2040 when they realise it aint gonna happen. Like I said though previously it isnt going to matter to many if any on this forum as I am one of the younger prolific posters and I am 65 ( today actualy so happy birthday to me ) so I will be dead or at worst being spoon fed likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As I have shown earlier in the screen shots of the Governments documents, there is already a 'transition time' allowed.

 

From 2025 all new boats built must be capable of being modified to emission free 'engines'

From 2025 all new boats built must be utilising emission free 'engines'

From 2050 all boats in UK waters must be emission free - any not, will be 'banned'.

Shouldn't your second line be 2035 ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Four years ago the gov said ice engines would not be allowed in new cars within twenty years...............only 16 to go, we shall see.

It’ll take a lot less than 16 years for all the manufacturers to have electric options right across their ranges, it’s virtually there now.
 

Interestingly, I was reading an article about the Jag E-Pace recently. I wasn’t aware that one of the bigger problems that manufacturers have is limiting the performance of electric vehicles. Jaguar were saying they could easily produce the ‘fastest SUV in the world’ tomorrow if they wanted, and had already done so with an experimental vehicle. However, they had zero intention of doing so for a number of reasons. Firstly, 0-60 in 2 seconds is pointless. Secondly, it wouldn’t be long before one of their customers killed themselves. Thirdly, once you’ve dragged your eyeballs out from the back of their sockets the novelty would soon wear off. Fourthly, someone else would soon produce a vehicle that was a teensy bit faster, etc etc. Instead they’re concentrating on a comfortable drive with good range and ‘adequate’ performance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MartynG said:

There is no such thing as a carbon free boat or anything else for that matter . 

 

But the electrically propelled boats sound interesting . I can imagine the canals being the ideal place to have electric propulsion due to the slow pace of travel.

But try that  on a river like the Trent and against the flow and the power demands must go up quite a lot ?  Do you know what range / running time is expected from the electric narrow boats being produced ?

I said earlier Azure has crossed the wash, also dumb barges used to go up and down the Trent just using mud weights so the answer is use the tides on the Trent 

Range wise I have no idea they have a 30 KWH battery pack, I would expect them to use about half the power I use for cruising so maybe 1.5 1.7 KWH?

Edited by peterboat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.