Honest Opinions Required

[grahoom]

Yes, but a flat with as little space as a narrowboat is called a "bedsit."

 

round where i live they are called studio flats, and cost a hell of a lot of money, a bedsit is generally speaking, a room with cooking facilities but which has a shared bathroom / toilet with other people in the block.

 

plenty of families live in tiny flats, and don't get re-housed. - plenty of families live in inner city areas where there isn't any real communal out-door playing area, besides the local park.

 

but i do agree with you, a marina isn't really a perfect place to bring up children, As StoneHenge has indicated, she is trying to find alternative mooring that would be more suitable for her and her family.

[chris w]

I give up.

I am swayed by the persuasive arguments.

I now agree that having the skill and education to concieve a child more than qualifies anyone to teach. Further more, cruising a canal and saying "Look, a kingfisher. Look a heron" is far and away enough education for living in a developed 21st century democracy.

It is perfectly reasonable to take a child away from a good school and their friends and teach them "off the cuff".

All that's needed is commitment, kids can go hang, it's the boating that matters.

I wonder why anyone ever bothers with teacher training.

 

Classic stuff!

 

What's frightening is that some of the people above presumably really believe the drivel they are espousing.

 

Chris

Edited September 12, 2007 by chris w

[Chertsey]

Classic stuff!

 

What's frightening is that some of the people above presumably really believe the drivel they are espousing.

 

Chris

 

Maybe you don't mean me, as I'm not actually espousing anything, but the points I made haven't actually been refuted, or even seriously challenged. The idea that some people seem to believe that any school is better than none is quite frightening. All I have tried to say is that it isn't a clear cut case of 'school good, home ed bad'; and people's motives for choosing one or the other aren't necessarily the best guide to whether their children will benefit. Can you point to any research (from the UK; the US is a very different kettle of fish but it's the UK we're talking about here) that shows that children educated outside of the school system do less well academically or socially (i.e. that it is in fact 'drivel')? When you can I will take your points seriously but at the moment they don't look very well informed.

[Theo]

Classic stuff!

 

What's frightening is that some of the people above presumably really believe the drivel they are espousing.

 

Chris

 

I was a teacher until the end of last term. SWMBO is a midwife until the end of November. The tow things that are true: 1. Everybody has been to school so they are experts on teaching. 2. Everyone knows someone who given birth, or, failing that, has been born so they are experts in obstetrics!

 

Ho hum...

 

Nick

[KenK]

Maybe you don't mean me, as I'm not actually espousing anything, but the points I made haven't actually been refuted, or even seriously challenged. The idea that some people seem to believe that any school is better than none is quite frightening. All I have tried to say is that it isn't a clear cut case of 'school good, home ed bad'; and people's motives for choosing one or the other aren't necessarily the best guide to whether their children will benefit. Can you point to any research (from the UK; the US is a very different kettle of fish but it's the UK we're talking about here) that shows that children educated outside of the school system do less well academically or socially (i.e. that it is in fact 'drivel')? When you can I will take your points seriously but at the moment they don't look very well informed.

 

Clearly the idea that any school is better than none is nonsense, but equally the idea that any parent is better than a school is also nonsense. The reality is that most children will be better off in school, yes there are poorly performing schools but those schools are monitored and measures put in place to improve them. Parents trying, I have no doubt their best, do not have the same support or resources. No parent however gifted can hope to cover all the subjects taught in school. If my two are the norm most if not all of their friends go to the same schools, they have lots in common, for children that's important. Being different is not something most children or indeed adults find comfortable.

 

I'm not saying it can't work, for some children it may be the only solution. However I would point out that Stonehenge and her children just want to live on the boat she is quite happy to send them to school you're the one who started the education debate, may I ask why?

 

Ken

[saltysplash]

Classic stuff!

 

What's frightening is that some of the people above presumably really believe the drivel they are espousing.

 

Chris

 

Its only frightening for those who are unable to see beyond what is the norm and what society expects.

 

Some posts above suggest that the canal system is some kind of retirement home, Well, its probably time for us all to have a wake up and see that its time society changed its opinions.

 

I personaly think snibs is right and CCing is impractical for bringing up children. better to have that permanant mooring, but then, is that a conformist opinion?

 

 

Who knows

[Dr Bradley]

Personal experience only, a friend of mine brought her kids up without schools as she lived on a bus in England, France and Spain. She only settled down a little bit when the oldest were in early teens and started school then. Lovely and succesful people now.

 

I went to school in the socially acceptable normal way and it was shit. Only after I left and went to FE, got A levels and went onto college to become a teacher did I prosper. My time in school, in retrospect was poor to the point of uselees. I have never had kids, but had I done they would have been taught at home, be it on a boat, a bus or a tent.

[saltysplash]

Personal experience only, a friend of mine brought her kids up without schools as she lived on a bus in England, France and Spain. She only settled down a little bit when the oldest were in early teens and started school then. Lovely and succesful people now.

 

I went to school in the socially acceptable normal way and it was shit. Only after I left and went to FE, got A levels and went onto college to become a teacher did I prosper. My time in school, in retrospect was poor to the point of uselees. I have never had kids, but had I done they would have been taught at home, be it on a boat, a bus or a tent.

 

which just goes to show that society has preconceived ideas about what we should or shouldnt do for our children. Lets face it, as kids we have to live where ever mum or dad chose to live, if they are in the forces that may be overseas. certainly once of a day children were sent to boarding school as the parents lived abroad and they had to suffer hot crumpets toasted twixt the cheeks in their early years.

 

The main point being you get to an age when you start to make your own decisions. and then you suddenly start to think 'whats best for my children?'

[StoneHenge]

There are a lot of things that will influence how a child turns up when they grow up. That could be their parents values and beliefs (religious or otherwise), what boundaries and disciplines they are given and consistently, what conditions they are brought up in, how they are interacted socially with society and by what degree.

 

There are so many factors involved in what is a very responsible job such as bringing up children. Most parents I know want the best for their kids, whether that be love, security, boundaries and values, or the latest of everything to conform with their mates because they have everything too (for example).

 

I also see a lot of parents who don't give two hoots about their kids either. They set no boundaries, offer no consistent discipline or support, or level of love and affection, they let their kids run riot doing what they please, have no respect for others or their properties and believe that chicken nuggets are the best thing ever made. Those children are more likely to turn out to be bad eggs than a child that has been supported and loved and nurtured through their lives and given values and direction. That could be anywhere.

[Sir Nibble]

I know that Stone henge is not proposing to educate her own kids, I read into the oroginal post, perhaps wrongly, an invitation to comment on the general as well as the specific.

I suggest that there is only a small fortunate minority in a position to give home education the attention it deserves whilst still making a living. Only a proportion of those actually have the skill and knowledge base to make a decent fist of it. I expressed concern that some people outside this number might be tempted to make a botched job of it in order to facilitate their boating, and that this would represent a skewed priority. Every time I tried to make the point I was answered with variations on "Are you saying boaters are thick?"

So now, go ahead! It is an unanswerable fact that everyone is an expert educator, teachers are frauds just pretending to be better at it. Look, a water vole.

[KenK]

I know that Stone henge is not proposing to educate her own kids, I read into the oroginal post, perhaps wrongly, an invitation to comment on the general as well as the specific.

I suggest that there is only a small fortunate minority in a position to give home education the attention it deserves whilst still making a living. Only a proportion of those actually have the skill and knowledge base to make a decent fist of it. I expressed concern that some people outside this number might be tempted to make a botched job of it in order to facilitate their boating, and that this would represent a skewed priority. Every time I tried to make the point I was answered with variations on "Are you saying boaters are thick?"

So now, go ahead! It is an unanswerable fact that everyone is an expert educator, teachers are frauds just pretending to be better at it. Look, a water vole.

 

My wife has an open invitation to anyone who would like to teach in her class, with a small group. Some parents take up the option, not many do it twice, and those that do come to understand how hard the job can be.

 

Ken

[grahoom]

I expressed concern that some people outside this number might be tempted to make a botched job of it in order to facilitate their boating, and that this would represent a skewed priority. Every time I tried to make the point I was answered with variations on "Are you saying boaters are thick?"

So now, go ahead! It is an unanswerable fact that everyone is an expert educator, teachers are frauds just pretending to be better at it. Look, a water vole.

 

I do agree with you, teaching isn't "easy", and i dare say home education is really limited to a few who can give the time and dedication it needs to teach a child at what is the equivalence of full time education. I've taught in the past, at HND Level, and found it both challenging and rewarding, atleast the people i was teaching generally wanted to learn the subject i was teaching.

 

personally, i wouldn't exclude home teaching as being "nonsense" and impossible. If / when i have kids, they will be shipped off to school...

 

edit to say, i wasn't teaching english, which is probably quite evident!

Edited September 13, 2007 by grahoom

[Orphiel]

I know that Stone henge is not proposing to educate her own kids, I read into the oroginal post, perhaps wrongly, an invitation to comment on the general as well as the specific.

I suggest that there is only a small fortunate minority in a position to give home education the attention it deserves whilst still making a living. Only a proportion of those actually have the skill and knowledge base to make a decent fist of it. I expressed concern that some people outside this number might be tempted to make a botched job of it in order to facilitate their boating, and that this would represent a skewed priority. Every time I tried to make the point I was answered with variations on "Are you saying boaters are thick?"

So now, go ahead! It is an unanswerable fact that everyone is an expert educator, teachers are frauds just pretending to be better at it. Look, a water vole.

 

Well, looking specifically at the point WarriorWoman was trying to get across, it seems to be simply that home education is not automatically a bad thing. I can't see anyone in the discussion saying that just looking at wildlife and being outdoors is a substitute for actual literacy, key skills and education, just that those things are nice to go alongside the actual education. It might be useful to look at the FAQs from Education Otherwise, to get some more info about the principle and benefits. http://www.education-otherwise.org/Legal/faq.htm

 

I do know quite a few people who were home educated, and who are home educating. In fact, I used to work with children with SEN, most of whom were autistic/had Aspergers Syndrome or had ADHD, and the best option for a lot of them turned out to be home schooling. Equally, I know those who had no SEN, and were just home educated because their parents thought it best, were not enjoying school and having problems there. Quite a few of them went on to University etc. with no problems. It's rapidly becoming accepted by the FE and HE system.

 

Yes, people shouldn't choose to home educate simply so they can CC across the system, without taking into account if it is right for their kids, but equally, if it IS right for the kids, and you have the skills and inclination to do it, and make sure they get proper socialisation etc, then there is nothing to stop you CCing. Kind of the other way round from what you seem to be implying, I think.

 

Anyway, Stonehenge, I know you didn't mention anything about home-schooling, or education or the like, but the slow drift off-topic is part of what makes forums fun...

Edited September 13, 2007 by Orphiel

[StoneHenge]

I wouldn't be a teacher for all the tea in China snibble.

 

They work long hours, far longer than the school day, often working late marking work, and I especially couldn't teach those above junior level because it's not just teaching the subject well, it's motivating a sometimes a bunch of kids who would rather be out playing footy than learning.

 

We had a health visitor once. Lovely lady, but had never had any of her own children. Does that make her less qualified to tell us about kids because we are the ones who have had them and she had not? Or did her training and qualifications make her more qualified to make a judgement?

 

I for one think it's a good balance of the two. I know my own gut instincts and they know what they have been taught and probably more experienced in dealing with certain authorities.

 

Same with teachers and parents. Teachers can do all they can to teach, but they need to parents to back them up and help. I don't expect the school to do everything. I aim to support their work. So helping my child read her reading books, help with home work rather than just expect them to do it all. Team effort and all that.

[Sir Nibble]

Kind of the other way round from what you seem to be implying, I think.

Nope.

people shouldn't choose to home educate simply so they can CC across the system, without taking into account if it is right for their kids,

But that is. And the major point is that those who can do so are a rare breed, it is not sufficient to just go "Hey! why not just do the show right here!?"

[StoneHenge]

Anyway, Stonehenge, I know you didn't mention anything about home-schooling, or education or the like, but the slow drift off-topic is part of what makes forums fun...

 

Absolutely! Wouldn't have it any other way!

[soffy]

I can honestly say that children are no problem if they are well behaived and do not constantly run up and down wooden pontoons and shout and scream all day.

 

We experience this when weekenders bring their children/grandchildren and it is very annoying especially if you do shift work or like me the other day four screaming noisy children started running up and down this had the pontoon shaking and bashing the boat around and the delicate artwork I was in the middle firstly got daubed with the wrong colour then as they chased my cat she flew in the window in fright and knocked the water over the rest of my painting. I was not pleased and had to shout at them, they then started to chase my dog who got upset and barked I was then accused of having an uncontrollable dog.

 

We have a child on our marina who as a child who has never known any other way of life walks every where and is very careful and considerate of other people.

 

It is all down to the parents/grandparents to be responsible.

[tidal]

Having read this thread (and others) it seems that there are quite a few ex-teachers and suitably skilled other adults sacttered about the various cuts.

 

The ex-pat communities often have a network of similar people who for beer/pocket money are quite willing to tutor in the specialisms. (I do it too)

 

I just wondered if a similar net could be put together around the cuts for children of cc-ers/liveaboards Just a thought.

 

 

 

 

Anyway back to the thread's original topic, sadly many marinas around the coasts (so I presume inland as well) are going down this route (like many mobile home parks) and unfortunately they are perfectly within their rights to do so..

 

A short-sighted policy in my opinion as these "kids" are probably the future of boating but there you go. As soon as you turn boats of any form into retirement homes you will get the usual proportion of nimbys/AOM/AOW who think that they have a "right" to dictate how other people live and can and will use their "status" to ensure they have the "peaceful" life they demand.

 

Me, I like kids around boats

Edited September 13, 2007 by tidal

[Orphiel]

But that is. And the major point is that those who can do so are a rare breed, it is not sufficient to just go "Hey! why not just do the show right here!?"

 

This is true. But from personal experience, there don't really seem to be those out there saying or doing that. Am ready to learn different, obv, but so far it doesn't seem like a problem because it's just not actually happening.

[cugsey]

I can honestly say that children are no problem if they are well behaived and do not constantly run up and down wooden pontoons and shout and scream all day.

 

We experience this when weekenders bring their children/grandchildren and it is very annoying especially if you do shift work or like me the other day four screaming noisy children started running up and down this had the pontoon shaking and bashing the boat around and the delicate artwork I was in the middle firstly got daubed with the wrong colour then as they chased my cat she flew in the window in fright and knocked the water over the rest of my painting. I was not pleased and had to shout at them, they then started to chase my dog who got upset and barked I was then accused of having an uncontrollable dog.

 

We have a child on our marina who as a child who has never known any other way of life walks every where and is very careful and considerate of other people.

 

It is all down to the parents/grandparents to be responsible.

the perfect example of why marinas and marinettas should be avoided

[Sir Nibble]

This is true. But from personal experience, there don't really seem to be those out there saying or doing that. Am ready to learn different, obv, but so far it doesn't seem like a problem because it's just not actually happening.

I never suggested it was happening. I just made the point that for educational reasons CC'ing was impractical with children, and all hell broke loose. I really, really wish I had not bothered.

[StoneHenge]

I never suggested it was happening. I just made the point that for educational reasons CC'ing was impractical with children, and all hell broke loose. I really, really wish I had not bothered.

 

you know this forum better than that snibbs. You love it really!

[KenK]

I never suggested it was happening. I just made the point that for educational reasons CC'ing was impractical with children, and all hell broke loose. I really, really wish I had not bothered.

 

Now you know how a coconut feels

 

Ken

[Orphiel]

I never suggested it was happening. I just made the point that for educational reasons CC'ing was impractical with children, and all hell broke loose. I really, really wish I had not bothered.

 

Ah. See, I thought there was just an interesting discussion going on, with exchanging of opinions about topic. Struck me as remarkably un-hellish for the internets...