Tam & Di

Cross straps are not used with loaded boats. I must admit 2" line sounds very o.t.t. and rather cumbersome, unless you are talking in old measurements which used to refer to circumference. Ours were only about 1.1/4" diameter - and were of a length to keep the butty fairly tight up, otherwise it would just slop about too much. When they stretched after a bit of use I simply put a knot in them to shorten them back up. If there is a steerer on the towed boat they should steer out of the turn as the motor comes to it. This pushes the arse end of the motor out, and conversely pushes the fore end round, so the motor needs hardly any tiller movement to come round even a really hard turn such as at Bulls Bridge junction. Coming out of a lock I would do with a bit of pace - certainly not stop to put the straps on. When level with the butty fore end I would put the strap nearest to me on the dolly nearest the butty, and my momentum would snatch the fore end of the butty across so I just reached down to drop the second strap on. I guess length and weight of the boats would be a factor - working narrow boats are so perfectly suited to their environment in a way that modern pleasure versions cannot match. The OP talks of walking back to get his second boat, so I assume he's not reckoning on travelling far anyway. Whether towing abreast or behind it is a good idea for him to remove everything from the cabin top in case he fetches up in trees at any point. Travelling abreast with two boats of different length would be fiddly on his own (I assume he is, but maybe not). OK if he can keep them abreast, but awkward if he has to keep singling out - he does not say if he is on a wide waterway (unless I missed some mails). When we lived at Bulls Bridge it was interesting to see people with converted n/b's coming out from London abreast - presumably for the fun of it and to talk to each other. They so often seemed to fetch up driving the shorter boat with the longer one alongside, but the shorter one centred along the length. This meant they could make turns in one direction quite easily, but not in the other as the thrust from the blades was against the overlapping hull of the longer boat. The doors of the dry dock opposite the turn from the Paddington Arm got a lot of dents. Edit: I've just gone back through the thread - the OP says "we" have two boats, so why not just drive one each? HughC talks of coming out of narrow locks, so is presumably talking of two boats with a combined length less than 72', but I'm not sure why you can't just come out of the lock with enough pace to keep going - it'll not be much different to coming out with one boat. Finally, I'd probably put a knot or two in Angel's straps if I was me.

In a previous existence Nick Walker owned the little Woolwich motor Themis, mostly kept in the Uxbridge vicinity.

Not a lot more I need to say really, and obviously I agree with Idleness too. In many ways the big waterways are rather easier, as at least there is plenty of room for everyone and small craft can generally keep well out of the way of the big boys. Even then you have to bear in mind that a 1000 ton commercial may be coming up behind you at 20 k.p.h., and he may be about to overtake you much closer than you would be comfortable with. You're also going to share locks with that size craft, and they generally sit with their engine in gear driving against just one line to hold their position and you have to cope with the turbulence they set up, and work in the same way - not easy when you are cruising in a steel tube and can only get from one end to the other by going through it or over the top. The most difficult canals for a small boat and inexperienced crew are the commercial Freycinet ones, with locks 40m x 5.10m. At least you don't have to share a lock with a commercial, but when you meet or overtake/get overtaken by one you will be close enough to shake hands with the steerer - try to move further away and you will be on the bottom and totally out of control. "Apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" comes to mind, in that event.

Brilliant link - thank for putting it up. (I've mailed Charles for the CD)

Presumably that means you tick "other" - as the size options go from 0 ft to 76+ ft I can't see what else the "other" box can be for (unless there is someone with a boat of minus 2 feet or something).

I copied a Hodgson idea that Tony Lewery mentioned to me and painted a Player Cigarettes "Hero" sailor's head on the base of one of our handbowls. The trademark was already a circular image, and worked well. Although not desperately of a royalist persuasion, in the Queen's Jubilee year I painted Union flags on the top of Towcester and Bude's stands rather than the more common diagonally quartered feature, which looked quite smart. Tony's Narrowboat Painting (David & Charles 1974) and Flowers Afloat (D&C 1996) both have several alternative ideas from working boat days.

Avril Lansdell used the same photo in her 1975 BWB book "The Clothes of the Cut" (I like Derek Pratt's photo at Bulbourne on the following page though!). Early C19 engravings depict boatmen wearing a form of "stovepipe" hat similar to Abraham Lincoln's in the U.S. Harry Hanson's "Canal People" (David & Charles 1978) has a photo of a No.1, Edward King, wearing a bowler in a posed photo (p.182) but the family are all wearing flat caps in another one of them on "Forget.me-not" in 1914. There is also a photo of a keelman wearing a bowler on his boat in Leeds at the same period, but again he and his wife and child are dressed to the nines for the photo, while all the crews in the background wear caps. The only photo I found showing bowlers in general use is also from "Canal People". P.23 has a shot of "Navvies collecting wages on the Manchester Ship Canal early 1980s" showing the favoured headwear as either a bowler or a slightly raised version of the flat cap. Some navvies fetched up as boatmen when the canals became operational, so I guess all things are possible. This form of raised cap is also shown as worn by lock-keepers (p.99), and is indeed not that different to the one in Derek Pratt's photo of Bulbourne in Lansdell's book. It is impossible to say a bowler was never worn by a boatman at work, but it certainly would not seem to be the general thing.

You seem to have covered the most obvious errors - very noble of you to write to let them know. I noted a further small point of omission in the leaflet. Although Arthur and Rose Bray get mention as "reputed to be the last to work commercial boats, up to the early 1970’s", given that the leaflet concerns Roger it surprised me that there is no mention that its last regular freights were coal for the jam 'ole which did of course mean passing through Rickmansworth on a weekly basis. There is also "Some of the last commercial cargo to be carried from London was the lime juice for the “Roses” Lime Juice Co. at Boxmoor. Finally, the road tanker took over." The freight was for L. Rose and Co., but it was in 40 gallon barrels/drums not bulk in tanks - the craft engaged in the job were usually referred to as "the barrel boats". We took the last small freight (122 drums - 33 tons, including two drums of lime oil) to clear the wharf at Brentford 5th October 1981 using Towcester and Leonids. The work was lost because the lease on the Boxmoor site came up for renewal and Boxmoor Trust wanted more than Cadbury-Schweppes who then owned Rose's were willing to pay. The freight did then go to road transport, but to St. Albans where Cadbury-Schweppes owned another processing plant. Probably too nit-picking to write to them about though.

Ah, so that's what it means when there's mention of someone wearing hotpants.

As I was looking for that I came across this one. It might have been on this forum already as it was back in September. The "barges" were actually narrowboats. 'Please keep barges off tidal river' Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 06:30 A rescue charity has hit out at people who put themselves at risk by taking barges onto a tidal river. Humber Rescue, which operates an inshore lifeboat from Hessle foreshore, has dealt with three incidents on the River Ouse, close to Goole, in recent weeks. Founder member Dave Roberts told the Mail: "It is becoming a problem for us. "Barges are coming out of the canal system at Goole and onto the river. "But these boats, which travel at around four knots, are not capable of dealing with the tide, which moves at five knots in parts. "Engines are burning out because they just can't cope. We are then called out to deal with it." In the latest incident, Mr Roberts said the Humber Rescue boat was alerted to a 60ft barge drifting near a bridge, close to the M62. Mr Roberts, whose team were scrambled from the boathouse next to Humber Bridge, said: "It took us 25 minutes to reach the scene, travelling at full speed - 40 knots. "Fortunately, we got there in time. The owner was really panicking. "Our message would be that these boats are built for canals. They are not meant for fast-flowing, tidal rivers like the River Ouse." Since January, Humber Rescue has dealt with 70 call-outs, mainly responding to SOS pleas from pleasure boats and yachts. Mr Roberts said: "A large number of incidents relate to boats that have been caught out between the Humber Bridge and Brough. "It is because of the rapidly changing sandbanks. People don't know where they are."

I agree that the 1840 quote saying 10m is more likely to be a misprint for 100m. When we came onto canals in '58 they were using narrow guage tractors on the Southern G.U. and Regents, or tugs. Caggy Stevens still used horses on the BCN, and there was the horsedrawn hotel narrowboat "Pamela". Martin Toms tried to start a horsedrawn tripboat and got into protracted arguments with BWB who refused him permission. I agree that the G.U. distance posts are almost certainly from the 30s - they are cast concrete, and the wording uses the same lettering moulds that are used on the concrete piling of the same period. There may have been earlier ones that were replaced, but I can't recall seeing any at the moment. Even by the late 70s when we were running passengerboats at Uxbridge we found that kids had no knowledge of coal, so they just did not know what we meant if we said narrowboats carried it when we gave a commentary. Much the same on this thread - it is very difficult for people coming onto canals today, where there is no continuity of cargo boats for them to see or working boatmen to learn from, so they make suggestions based entirely on what they see canals to be today. Nothing like a bit of fact to stop a thread dead in its tracks though.

They don't need to reclaim any VAT. Following a recent case taken to appeal, a boat which is the owner's sole place of residence is now a zero-rated item - i.e. they are charged VAT at 0%. It is a different section of VAT law to the one which applies zero rating to vessels with no engine used in this way. I guess NABO will have full details - the successful owner is on this forum and is a DBA member. I agree with others that your VAT "advice" sounds like waffle.

We used to operate thee little coasters, one of which required heavy oil stern gear lubrication which more or less drip fed itself. What I use on Friesland is Vickers Neox DT, and it is definitely much more of a grease, so it may be they supply a range of grades. An idea for anyone with sufficient space and who does a fair number of cruising hours is we use 12.5 kg tubs of Neox DT which stand close to the stern gland. The lid is fitted with a pump such as used in garages, connected to the greaser by flexible tube. I just need to give half a dozen pumps on the handle each day, or maybe one or two pumps every couple of hours if we are pushing hard on rivers, especially if it is hot weather. We have a Gardner 6LW driving a 2.1/8" stainless shaft at about 1000 RPM max., and I've only used two and a bit drums of Neox in about 15 years. Actually the thread reminds me I must order some more soon.

I think you'll find VHF mandatory for a vessel of that size - apart from anything else you have to call Woolwich barrier to get their OK to proceed and tell you which span. Also, especially if you are coming from Brentford or Teddington I would add a PLA handbook showing you the navigation arch of all the London bridges and which ones to use for upstream and downstream traffic. It also gives a silhouette of them which is handy, as it is very easy to lose track of where you are, though I suppose GPS sorts that for you nowadays.

"Staffordshire Advertiser 28 Nov 1840: “John Carden was peacefully steering a limestone boat along the Trent & Mersey Canal towards Etruria Lock. He passed the distance post 10 yards from the lock which then gave him priority." Well, at least 170 years ago, and official or not, that's what they were thought to be for right back then.

Was just going to change that when I reread my post, but I'll leave it now, thanks

But I do know the true purpose: They mean that once a boat has passed that post no other craft coming up behind is to overtake! I've tried saying we were told by a lock keeper back in the late 50s when we started ditch crawling; I've tried saying that in France there are signposts similarly located which actually do use the very words "Limit of Overtaking"; I've offered reasons why I think the posts would have been made necessary. I can see why people coming onto canals with pleasure craft long after cargo carrying finished might invent their own interpretation of them but it does not make it right. You may not want to ram the boat ahead of you to get into the lock first - but you are not living in a world with no social security and very low wages to support you, your wife and umpteen children; where getting to a quay first means you get the last load available. You're not in a world where you've been boating 18 hours a day come snow, rain or shine; where you sleep in your clothes so you can be up and away as soon as you feel your boat beginning to move about from the approach of another early riser.. Someone turns the lock around on you? - you go and frown at him very severely!!!!!!! From Harry Hanson's "Canal People" (pub David & Charles 1975): Staffordshire Advertiser 28 Nov 1840: “John Carden was peacefully steering a limestone boat along the Trent & Mersey Canal towards Etruria Lock. He passed the distance post 10 yards from the lock which then gave him priority. Bryan Bennett, close behind, would have none of it and in his determination to get his boat into the lock first drove it with such force against Carden’s boat as cause it to sink”. (So who's bothered about only having 15-20 yards here then?) Birmingham Canal Co. Letter Book 23 Aug 1814: “That on 14 April 1813 John Heritage in attempting to take the turn of Smiths Robert boat at locks did jam which prevented the boats passing one hour”, and “That on the 18th instant, he the said John Heritage by similar endeavour to take the turn of Isaac Parkes stopped the passage of the canal two hours”. Northants Record Office notes an instance at Stoke Bruerne top lock in the 1870s when two steam tugs and their loaded barges disputed the right of way. A London & Birmingham Steam Co. captain managed to get into the lock immediately ahead of the Fellows Morton pair, but the G.U. Co’s bye laws gave precedence to FMC boats. The FMC captain and crew attempted to pull the BSC boats back out of the lock, but were only successful after twenty-four hours, by which time there was a queue of 60 boats waiting. Apart from “frequent remarks of a bantering and sarcastic description” the 16 boatmen saw the business through without recourse to fisticuffs. Now though they are just historical artifacts, and no doubt BW will pull them all up as soon as someone finds a half-baked reason to complain about them.

Thinking on it a bit more it is quite possible the posts were put in only after steam and diesel powered boats became common. With a propellor driven boat the prop is pulling water from in front and from the side and thrusting it backwards. A towed boat simply pushes water aside and reacts quite differently. If a propellor driven boat simply roared past a horse boat it would throw it about quite considerably as it is in the water being drawn in by the prop, quite possibly endangering the horse. The motor driven boat can stop quite quickly if necessary, whereas the horse boat can only be brought to a halt if there is a convenient strapping post to take turns of a line around. So although I have no experience of horse boating I would assume they need to start slowing down rather sooner than a motorboat does, tempting the motor steerer to charge ahead - I think there was a certain amount of aggro between horse boatman and those with engines anyway. I stick with what I was told - that they are to stop overtaking which would be very dangerous so close to the lock, but I'd be interested to see if anyone can turn up Grand Junction Canal bye laws.

I am happy with that as a supplementary significance, but nevertheless when we came onto the canals in the late 50s we were told that it specifically meant that there was no overtaking once a boat had passed the distance post (by Frank Mercer, lock keeper at Cowley). It would be pretty difficult for one horse boat to pass another without some co-operation (or without a blade to cut towlines), but certainly I would guess it was not unknown for a steamer or diesel powered boat to try to push by, however close to the lock they were. Our current experience is in France, where as I mentioned just now there are a few cast iron posts still in situ which specifically say "Limit of Overtaking" and which are positioned about 100m from locks, or notably the aqueduct over the Loire at Briare.

Although his explanation may not be much more authoritative than mine, L.T.C. Rolt does say virtually the same in his book "The Inland Waterways of England".

We always understood them to the post beyond which one boat could not overtake another to get to the lock, probably becoming most significant at the point there were motor driven craft and horse drawn ones operating concurrently. I always assumed too that a lock should not be turned around if a boat coming the other way had passed his distance post, but that would be a secondary meaning. Don't forget locks had lock keepers in the "good old days", so the lock distance post would sort of serve as his "linesman" to minimise dispute about which boat he prepared a lock for first. In France there are still a few cast iron notices around reading "Limite de Trématage" - limit of overtaking - making it more explicit (and still a fair number of locks with lock keepers, though rapidly being given over to automated use by the boater)

I've written in another thread, but if a boat came over the Tring summit and continued down below Cowley he was using canal company water, and it was let back into the long pound to Paddington. If he came from any wharf on the Cowley side of the summit he was using mill owners' water and it was let back into the river through those paddles at the side.

A slight aside and also a slightly forlorn hope, but does anyone know of a copy of the BBC TV film of Emma Smith's "Maidens' Trip" directed by Verity Lambert back in the late 70s? I tried BBC some time ago, but they don't seem to have kept a copy themselves.